1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

[jakswan]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Wasn't there a quite intelligent thread on this not so long back. I think Dr. Jambo started it asking for mobile AA on maps where there were none.

Mobile AA is the solution imho. It's deadly to everything other than a J10.

There do seem to be two types of players posting here though:-

1) Grunts, want to nerf anything that kills them and basically just want to shoot their gun.

2) Balanced, maybe can't fly but embrace what BF2 is and want some sort of balance when the teams are balanced in terms of pilots.

The first group really should play something else, I suspect they'd get owned in CS or any other FPS so we're stuck with them.

The only threat to a plane is another plane, stinger sites are no threat, it takes three to get a plane down, saying anything different is just going to wind people up. Mobile AA is a different matter, you don't know where it will be and four missiles ready to go. Operation Smokescreen is the best map imho, flying against a team that holds the top spawn is a absolute nightmare, you can't follow Jets can't touch choppers, and have to only enter that area with flares ready to go and even then know exactly how your going to get out.

As I said in the other thread I think a lot of players are looking for the solution on the ground that will deliver revenge, by adding mobile AA you are introducing something that a pilot has to deal with. Example:- On Kubra Dam Mobile AA just hits the top spot in terms of targets that I'm hunting for, that is you won't get revenge and will die fast but you will help your team as I HAVE to deal with Mobile AA. Dogfighting over a Mobile AA spot is a bit scary :)

The other big change that needs to happen is the scoring system, one point for a kill, everyone on the team gets an assist, that way everyone has a vested interest in the best pilot flying, best chopper team in the chopper and so on etc. I suspect the grunts would hate that though :)

[mlkmnz]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

no, the little baby whiners do not matter. they were obviously not spanked hard enough by their parents when they whined and cried cause they wanted sweeties. it was them that got dice to bring out 1.2 and godlike AA and was plain to see to everyone but them that the game was utterly ****ed, but they were happy. they need to find another game, along with you, you little faghat.

Hey make sure you invite me to your 5th birthday party.

End of my input is, jet maps aren't for me, it just doesn't seem like I'm actually competing when you die in a split second from a jet you can't see or shoot at. So I'll stick to non-jet maps until (and if) the situation changes. Call me a whiner (and some of you will, its a free world), but maybe you should meet up with me on an urban map and we'll see who's chief swingin' ****. In the meantime, here's one less ground centred teamplayer you can't use to up your stats.

[HowieMandel]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Hey make sure you invite me to your 5th birthday party.

End of my input is, jet maps aren't for me, it just doesn't seem like I'm actually competing when you die in a split second from a jet you can't see or shoot at. So I'll stick to non-jet maps until (and if) the situation changes. Call me a whiner (and some of you will, its a free world), but maybe you should meet up with me on an urban map and we'll see who's chief swingin' ****. In the meantime, here's one less ground centred teamplayer you can't use to up your stats.

I think this works for me as well.
I mean, the map changes on a server, and its one of those air maps. I stay......and as usual get frustrated at all the bombings, and the long range TV missle hits... i mean it just gets old. Like a jack, i've stayed in those maps. No more. I disconnect. Come on people, there are over 3 thousand servers...if it gets annoying, leave. I know i do now.
Im on of those people that play urban maps alot. NOt so much because i love them and think they rock. Its because i just can play First Person Shooter on them. And not... Death from the sky from some dousch with a radar/neon/skin hack..
:)

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

People worked around it. I am back to doing just as good as I was before in the helo. No problems. The Missiles don't spin around the cockpit of my helo no more, so your not happy.

People will whine and whine about some pointless argument. If your team can't keep the helos and planes out of the air thats their fault. If anything you could blame dice for making the air field capturable on Wake. However on Oman their is no excuse.

I don't camp bases with the helicopter, no mains anyway. I look for tanks, AA, and anything that maybe be a threat to my team. Yes i've developed a easy way of taking out infantry with the helos on the normal BF2 maps. I can see exactly why your whining. People have found ways around the new improved AA.

I usually always get hit though atleast once unless I can get down low. Even if I use flares, one always goes past me and the other flys into me. Its not so bad, though because most of the time I can flare and get down low. Then its on you to guess what direction I come from and blow you up.

[zipp0r]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Hey make sure you invite me to your 5th birthday party.

End of my input is, jet maps aren't for me, it just doesn't seem like I'm actually competing when you die in a split second from a jet you can't see or shoot at. So I'll stick to non-jet maps until (and if) the situation changes. Call me a whiner (and some of you will, its a free world), but maybe you should meet up with me on an urban map and we'll see who's chief swingin' ****. In the meantime, here's one less ground centred teamplayer you can't use to up your stats.

go for it, cos im deadly with the ak too :laugh:

[DrJambo]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Yeah Jakswan, it was my thread. I imagine it's unfortunately been lost down the many pages of this forum, diluted by the masses of meaningless threads similar to this one. Maybe someone can dig it up if it's deemed worthwhile for discussion.

Until anything changes though, I suggest doing what someone else suggested above - play on the better maps; ones which either don't have jets or ones which at least have some mobile AA.

Leave the zipp0rs and colonys of this life to their egotistical jet-whoring and back-patting on Wake Island and Gulf of Oman.

[jakswan]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

well it does cut both ways, 80% of the time your bound to have compentnt air cover.

Have to admit last night I was getting bored on wake so I switched, as China won 150-0 then as US 35-0, didn't fly at all as US. China still had decent pilots. Does make you think....

[PHPT]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Come post 1.2 and AA works, those who know how to fly have adjusted their styles and still put up great rounds going unkilled. Now the noob ground pounders are asking for more help :laugh:

In 1.2 the AA was a guaranteed kill if you had a lock. Now it's down to sort-of-most-of-the-time-a-kill if you have a lock, except the range has been nerfed. Nevermind what Wreck says about the range being "essential," prior to 1.2 it was significantly longer.

What I find really hillarious about the AA is people were using oil towers to whine about it (which turned out to be a separate bug) and showing videos of "cyclone missiles" which are still possible: Just fire a stinger into a tree and watch. Also shows that video of someone getting hit by it, they had to TRY getting hit by it because they're unguided when they do that.

Right now static AA works OK against choppers, but against jets it's still a joke. You're just a big box that says "Shoot Me." If a plane flies overhead, 90% of the time they'll drop flares and the other 10% you won't get a lock anyway because DICE thought it would be an awesome idea to surround every stinger site with radar towers and trees.


And I'll retract my statement about the majority of players having anything to do with the number currently doing something, since it's not really a good indicator. But you mentioned the airfield getting camped out, and I think that IS a good indicator: Why do they camp out the airfield? Because everyone wants the free-kill-mobile. Why else would you see that someone else got a plane, and then refuse to even play the map unless you could get it too? Why else would people pick sniper just to shoot teammates out of the cockpit and yank it?

To say that they "think it's fine" would suggest that everyone thought the PKM was fine when it was an autosniper and everyone was picking it, or that assault was fine when everyone was running around using the GL as a shotgun. They only "think it's fine" because they can whore points with it and not worry about repercussions.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Almost. I don't think AA speed or accuracy need ramping up. What I suggested was lowing plane armour AND missile damage, while extending AA range.

So you want even more hassle with anti-J10 business? Good call, sir.

Planewise- I dont know how, but they better equalize the shoot-to-hit probability in F35B and J10 cases. Lets assume we have that.

Missiles- 2 shots to kill is sufficient. I wouldnt suggest you go Ace Combat style to down a bomber in 6 shots. I know many have noticed that with every hit, theres a slight "flare effect" which wont let you spam the missiles (at least 2 in the row). But just for balance sake-

Some time ago someone suggested missile arming time. Somewhere between 3-5 seconds of it would be enough.

Armor- 2 missile hits to take down would be sufficient.


This wouldnt allow jets to spam missiles on targets and use the missiles as they re supposed to be used- with some thinking put into it.

It would also make cannons more effective in dog fights (a concept that should make the truely elite plane jocks happy) and make the various direct fire weapons more potent.

You do realize that cannons use does not come from the damage capacity the missile holds, but rather its effectiveness in homing to the target? Now that you think about it, also think about why people prefer cannons against J-10 and missiles against F35B (in F vs J fight). I thought your analytical mind already cracked that secret open.

Bombs- Simple solutions. Do the same as with the grenade launcher. Decrease splash damage to the point where, in order to kill a tank or an APC or to damage it, you have to drop it directly on top of it, or to the side of it. Reduce splash damage to the degree where the 500 LBS bombs will not take over the 5x bombs carpet bombing function.

This would serve 2 goals. Fighters, if attacking ground targets, become "anti-armor" tools more than anything.

This ain't gonna happen. Accounting for aircraft attacks on ground targets is a major element of the game. Simply removing their ability to attack the ground would be a massive mistake. Even tho I'm a reasonably terrible pilot and sometimes get annoied while being bombed ad-nausium, I'd miss the threat from above.

Thats what every respectable tankwhore or medic bag spammer from Karkand, Iraq, would want to see. You see the irony here?

This is firmly in the not gonna happen drawer. Right up there with shoulder launched AA. There's no way we'd ever be able to convince Dice/EA to re-do ALL the planes (or add man portable stingers). Hell, we can't even get another free map outta 'em!

Which is a damn shame. Apart from bugfixes, theres no love for the community.

This does seem to be true... for the most part. It's unfortunate that we can't convince people that it is worth discussing. The truth of the matter is that plane jocks love their planes and the high scores they can wrack up with 'em. It's VERY hard to suggest that something that would result in lower scores for them would be a good thing.

So far the discussion has been 2 staged. First, a thread starts when the first 10 posts bash pilots to hell. Then, someone tries to be the pope and starts talking about "productive discussion". After a few posts, everyone finishes happily that they did a "good job in this thread staying objective and fair". What ****ing ever.

So for the record... plane guys, DO NOT keep spouting that same crap, please. We've all got just as much right to talk about the game we paid for.

Drop dead, son. Go search "jets" in the forum and youll only see anti-jet attitude. If anything, its the guys who are ANTI-jet that spout of garbage, which obviously has clouded your objective sight, Gimp.
Every time a pilto tries to help, he gest ignored. In maximum of 3 posts after his post, the anti-pilot rant goes on.

Clear?

I hope to god you were on crack when you posted that post, Gimp.

[Paas]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

This is all so funny.

I remember, not long ago, when everyone was crying about AA not hitting a darn thing and said all flyboys will come to an end and suck. Come post 1.2 and AA works, those who know how to fly have adjusted their styles and still put up great rounds going unkilled. Now the noob ground pounders are asking for more help :laugh:

The "domination" that planes deal out I believe is too weak. Us pilots should get laser guider munitions like our A2A rockets but for ground targets. If anything they should be boosted in their power.

Oh please. In After the release of 1.2 you, and the rest of the fly-boys, where complaining about A.A. that was "Too Accurate" in your minds.

It's not like you magically "adjusted your style". Dice/EA made a couple of changes to the missile mechanics to give you a fighting chance again. Which I truely don't mind, I just wish the darn "STATIONARY/EXPOSED/WORTHLESS" A.A. sites had their range back.

...or at least give us ground pounders the counter Vehicle to Jet's that's so lacking in this game (Linebacker anyone?).

As for your last comment; assuming your joking. I'll leave it at that.

{WP}Paas

P.S. - Christoph. My god. You and your "Exhaust Pushers" (New slander right there) are using a very unbalanced vehicles, enjoying yourselves, and bombing the hell out of the "Free Kills" below you.

You cannot honeslty expect people to take you seriously... I mean, I'm not saying they shouldn't. Nor' am I saying your opinions don't matter. You just have to look at the common mindset and realise you and your kind simply aren't liked by the bulk of people who play this game (Karkand anyone?).

I don't have a problem with Jets. I'm about a B+ pilot when I need to be, I enjoy the thrill of cannon warfare in the air... etc. etc. On the same token though I feel the pain of everyone who jumps into an "Anti-Air" station, becomes a targeting square, and stares at a jet that's outside of his visual range put some 20mm ammunition through his skull.

...Pilots just aren't liked. You annoy a good bit of the community. It's just the way it is. Heck, welcome to the club? I can list about 20 people off of the top of my head who hate me for my M203 abilities (100m+ DropShots into Flags are like Orgies).

[unununium]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

The thing about boosting the AA is that getting shot down in a plane is a pain in the ass. You have to wait to respawn, then wait for the plane to respawn, and that's assuming that no one else gets the plane or TK's you for it. With infantry you just respawn and you're ready to go again. Look at the tanks, they're difficult to destroy if your team is uncoordinated and you don't see anyone whining.

[Paas]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

The thing about boosting the AA is that getting shot down in a plane is a pain in the ass. You have to wait to respawn, then wait for the plane to respawn, and that's assuming that no one else gets the plane or TK's you for it. With infantry you just respawn and you're ready to go again. Look at the tanks, they're difficult to destroy if your team is uncoordinated and you don't see anyone whining.

No they aren't. Tanks are basically a free kill as long as they don't catch you of guard. There is just so many ways to down a tank it's insane; most of them don't involve other tanks either. (APC, Anti-Tank, Spec Ops, TV-Guided, Anti-Air Vehicle, Mines, Jihad Jeeps, Jihad Choppers, Parachuting Anti-Tank, Parachuting Engineer, Assault M203 [Not effective, but possible], Hand Grenades, "Sprint of Potential C4 Planting that causes the driver to leave the tank when he doesn't really need to..." [Performed best by Non-SF for comedic value). I would hardly consider Tanks a threat.

Jets on the other hand... you know it's coming. You see it coming. You even have it between your Anti-Air circle. Yet, it has not entered "Missile" range yet so it's safe. Did I mention it can put sme 20mm through your head before it enters that missile range?

...oh! Yes! You're also a massive square on his HUD. I call it the square of "Put Cannons Here".

{WP}Paas

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

"Might as well be screaming about how pistols vs tanks is "unbalanced"."

A pistol isn't meant to be a check against tanks.
AA IS meant to be a balance against air threats.
To me, it should do what it was meant to do, which is shoot down enemy
aircraft. If AT mines quit killing vehicles, or C4 quit blowing up assets, people
would flip out. Why should it be any different with AA not working for ****?

In real life, stingers aren't made for taking down fast movers. 2 of them
WILL take down a Hind D, however. If 2 can take down a flying tank,
why do they have a hard time killing unarmored UH-60s, or lightly armored
AH-1s? Unguided RPGs have taken down Chinooks in combat. A stinger bounces off an Apache? Being that I am an air defender in real life, this
is something that interests me a bit.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

OK... I am not about to read all of this fucking bullshit!

TO ALL THE GRUNTS THAT WANT EVERYTHING NERFED

LISTEN! They are fucking PLANES! They have big ass machine guns and 500 lb bombs... you are not SUPPOSED to fucking live if you are stupid enough to get into its path!... THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE near invincible.

HERES A HINT

All people that fly planes alot, look for places with alot of people (or they have common spots they know of and shoot constantly {Jet spawn/heli/popular AA sites/last flag/certain hills/buildings})

If you go into a highly populated area, you are GOING to eventually get killed by:

A) Artillery

or

B) A jet/heli

And if one of those doesn't kill you, an infantryman will.


SO!.... if you wan't jets gone, well... thats the whole point of BF... so go play a different game, or different map.

If you keep dying in the AA like that dumbfuck 10 times in a row, then you need to: ..... throw the game away, because you are retarded.

If you just think the AA sucks, well then I would have to agree with you, but listen to my tips and just try to not get into highly populated areas... and you won't have an insentive to kill the jets! Let your teams air force worry about that. If all fails and the jets are baseraping, switch teams. If you can't, then go to an unsuspecting/unpopular AA. Wait until the jet passes and QUICKLY aim at it's tail + wait for lock + shoot, and run far away from that AA because I can almost guaruntee the jet will be back for revenge. Just rinse/repeat... even though you may not KILL the jet, you will piss him off, and he will have to keep repairing, or if he doesn't repair he will be wasting time maneuvering... so that = less time for him to kill.


























please just /thread.

[Uber:Jagermeiter]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

It was nice for a while. But it's back to lame-o-Karkland again. I just left Wake and couldn't hit a helo to save my life. Regardless of how good I "aimed", the missles went right passed the helo. Yet....his ammo seemed to find me no problem. Big ass helo in the air is hard to hit. Tiny ass infantry guy on the ground is easy to hit.

And don't even get me started on the jets that can't be taken down at all, ever, from the ground. I gave up on Oman due to the cyclical bombing runs. I could set my watch to it. And nothing could stop it.

Does anyone know of a similar game that's more balanced? BF2 is getting old. This certain death-from-the-air is getting old. Any suggestions appreciated.

Don't play air maps- Flying jets is the easiest way to get points-hit the little box and boom----I just play combat maps and have a blast---the air power in this game is a ****ing joke