1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

[CyberPitz]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

The weird thing is, the only time I used the AA this patch was last night..heli flying..lock tone, fired 2 missles, 1 hit other flew random. Fireds 2 more, both hit, destroying helo.

3 AA's to kill? I thought it was 2. D:

[jakswan]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Oh please. In After the release of 1.2 you, and the rest of the fly-boys, where complaining about A.A. that was "Too Accurate" in your minds.

It's not like you magically "adjusted your style". Dice/EA made a couple of changes to the missile mechanics to give you a fighting chance again. Which I truely don't mind, I just wish the darn "STATIONARY/EXPOSED/WORTHLESS" A.A. sites had their range back.

I don't think Colony had a major issue with 1.2, I didn't, not that I'm an Ace or anything. From a pilots POV I can understand you not having a pilot on your team and feeling impotent to be able to counter the threat.

What annoys me about some players is that even when there are tools available to counter the threat they don't use those tools, e.g. Taraba Quarry I went 50-0 in the MIG and contiually saw Mobile AA being used as front line weapon against our tanks, at the same time seeing stupid statements like 'Jet map, stupid design'.

Then just last night I go 40-0 on Wake as China, switch teams and see the entire US team try to do exactly the same thing that got them raped for ten minutes just seconds earlier. There are some high ranked players on this team as well!

I have seen my team get battered from the air and not once have i heard anyone on my team say 'look do we have a decent pilot, cos lets make sure he gets up there.'

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Oh please. In After the release of 1.2 you, and the rest of the fly-boys, where complaining about A.A. that was "Too Accurate" in your minds.

Wrong, there were 3 issues that rise to my mind. Im discarding the whining from the guys who fly 35-17 and think they "pwn n00bs".

1) AA has become a weapon that gets you free kills. Meaning. 2 clicks = 1-5 kills. This wasnt so much of an issue, just some people (me included), thought that in order to get a kill, you should deserve it. I also aknowledge, that an infantry player does not have the time nor the inspiration to master the use of AA. The fast pace of the game and multiple threats from anywhere just dont favour it. 15 seconds standstill and youre dead, thats what Ive been taught in playing Americas Army. If battling a threat in AA will take you over 15 seconds, its not good. Now, discarding the situation where you might think jets 10 overpasses during 5 minutes is one battle of course.

2) The main problem wasnt STA, the main problem was ATA. Most pilots (again, discarding the 1337 pwnerers with 35-17) were content with the STA threat 1.2 gave them because there was a way to counter it. They were NOT fine with the new style of dogfights, which was "first lock first kill".

3) Most players thought the AA missile trajectory was rather retarded.

It's not like you magically "adjusted your style". Dice/EA made a couple of changes to the missile mechanics to give you a fighting chance again. Which I truely don't mind, I just wish the darn "STATIONARY/EXPOSED/WORTHLESS" A.A. sites had their range back.

The AAs on most maps are situated with an intention, that there would be at least 2 AA sites manned. I believe that DICE thought, when bringing in the AA sites, that AAs will be manned for defensive purposes on most of the time. In reality, AAs are manned on a "need to counter the threat" basis and left as soon as the threat has either left or destroyed.

Range change is a shame, indeed, and the only logic I find here is that DICE seems to want to make a point-

As in the video, AAs are for helos mostly.

...or at least give us ground pounders the counter Vehicle to Jet's that's so lacking in this game (Linebacker anyone?).

Already in the game. Already in the game. Im all for 1 AA vehicle for 1 plane on every jet map. I believe it would work out rather well. But its not going to happen.

P.S. - Christoph. My god. You and your "Exhaust Pushers" (New slander right there) are using a very unbalanced vehicles, enjoying yourselves, and bombing the hell out of the "Free Kills" below you.

Thats not my mindset however. I aknowledge that Im using a vehicle that can truly be countered by another similar vehicle. But from my experience with jets and AAs and AAs effects on me while I have played, I can also say that AAs are not useless. From that experience I laugh at every post that states so. If only people would listen, or at least fly enough to aknowledge the effects of the "buzzer" to the pilot, you would appreciate te effectiveness of the AA.

People dont want a countermeasure, people want a tool to kill with.

You cannot honeslty expect people to take you seriously... I mean, I'm not saying they shouldn't. Nor' am I saying your opinions don't matter. You just have to look at the common mindset and realise you and your kind simply aren't liked by the bulk of people who play this game (Karkand anyone?).

Ive noticed that. I also notice that the hatred isnt justified, and this makes their arguments worth zero.

I don't have a problem with Jets. I'm about a B+ pilot when I need to be, I enjoy the thrill of cannon warfare in the air... etc. etc. On the same token though I feel the pain of everyone who jumps into an "Anti-Air" station, becomes a targeting square, and stares at a jet that's outside of his visual range put some 20mm ammunition through his skull.

Thats their own fault, really. AA, as a patrolling device, has already been proven seriously failed.

...Pilots just aren't liked. You annoy a good bit of the community. It's just the way it is. Heck, welcome to the club? I can list about 20 people off of the top of my head who hate me for my M203 abilities (100m+ DropShots into Flags are like Orgies).

LOL, Im beginning to like you!:laugh:

[colony]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Leave the zipp0rs and colonys of this life to their egotistical jet-whoring and back-patting on Wake Island and Gulf of Oman.

Funny, i play euroforces more than i do vanilla bf2 maps at the moment, which as you might know has alot of mobile AA and AA stations on both Taraba quarry and operation smoke screen thank you very much. Nothing better than hunting mobile AA stations down with my eurofighter

[IntensivCareBear]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

seems ok to me, i learned to fly in operation smokescreen 1.21, which is basically the hardest flying map to do so in (all the stuff to crash into, billions of mobile and stationary AA, tons of enemy fighters, tons of stuff missiles lock onto, etc).

i have absolutely no problem with any of the air forces. they seem perfectly balanced, and shooting down multiple attack helicopter whores with sraws seems to confirm that for me.

oh yeah and chris redfield, if you think AA shoots down jets with no effort than you have no clue what the hell youre talking about. try flares or even just some afterburning.... whining wont help though!

anyone who complains about "free kills" only has one thing to complain about, and its claymore whoring in urban maps. those are literally free kills, and if it isnt changed soon then im doing it myself.

[BryanG]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Not to debunk your AA theory... but IMO the best defence against choppers has always been the 50 cal. They have always been a better chopper deterant and even more so now, I think.

YEEEES! Someone's got it!

[colony]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

In 1.2 the AA was a guaranteed kill if you had a lock. Now it's down to sort-of-most-of-the-time-a-kill if you have a lock, except the range has been nerfed. Nevermind what Wreck says about the range being "essential," prior to 1.2 it was significantly longer.

What I find really hillarious about the AA is people were using oil towers to whine about it (which turned out to be a separate bug) and showing videos of "cyclone missiles" which are still possible: Just fire a stinger into a tree and watch. Also shows that video of someone getting hit by it, they had to TRY getting hit by it because they're unguided when they do that.

Right now static AA works OK against choppers, but against jets it's still a joke. You're just a big box that says "Shoot Me." If a plane flies overhead, 90% of the time they'll drop flares and the other 10% you won't get a lock anyway because DICE thought it would be an awesome idea to surround every stinger site with radar towers and trees.


And I'll retract my statement about the majority of players having anything to do with the number currently doing something, since it's not really a good indicator. But you mentioned the airfield getting camped out, and I think that IS a good indicator: Why do they camp out the airfield? Because everyone wants the free-kill-mobile. Why else would you see that someone else got a plane, and then refuse to even play the map unless you could get it too? Why else would people pick sniper just to shoot teammates out of the cockpit and yank it?

To say that they "think it's fine" would suggest that everyone thought the PKM was fine when it was an autosniper and everyone was picking it, or that assault was fine when everyone was running around using the GL as a shotgun. They only "think it's fine" because they can whore points with it and not worry about repercussions.

This is funny because of the ones waiting for jets, the majority cant fly worth doodoo and die in less than 2 minutes. Then they hate on the ones that can last whole rounds without being blown out of the sky and get jealous and create threads like this to nerf the aircraft's effect in bf2.

Its not the game's fault, its the players who get in the aircraft who cant use them which in turn allows the opposing team's good pilots to dominate.

You want 10000 meter range? you want radar? you want 10 missile stingers? Fine, give jets bvr missiles, increase their load capacity, give them air to ground missile loads(aka laser guided munitions which only bombers have) but controlled by pilots in fighter craft, give capable aircraft like the eurofighter chain guns on our rear ends to fire and destroy incoming missiles as well as decoys and thrust vectoring, increase our ceiling, and give them radar with constant glowing tangos and tango vehicles on our huds AND I will say its even.

Till then, I'm opposed to nerfing the aircrafts effectiveness per round.

I know its hard sometimes to take pilots down, but as great as I am, I have been shot down before. Yes I know, its hard to believe, but relax, its the truth :p

Only thing that needs to be nerfed in this game is the J10.

[LoKi.]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

I want to be able to throw C4 into the nooblets faces again as I bunnyhop round the map and glitch it so it blows midair and sends them flying on Karkand.

But you dont see me making lots of stupid threads about C4 now do you ... quit complaining and get on with it ffs

[pak_hopper]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

My 2 cents in this probably soon to be locked thread is this...

I have never seen a group effort by a team to take out the airpower. There are plenty of tools given to a team on a map to suppress the airpower. So what makes me hot is when I see a guy go a jack the AAA tank only to see him using it to "tickle" a tank.

People should think of airpower as a challenge instead of a whore. When I see a really good pilot chewing up my team, i rub my hands with glee at the thought of taking him on with a well hidden AAA tank. It’s just another side story you get to create while playing the game.

Basically if for every one player who trains to be a good chopper pilot you would also have one player train to be a good AAA operator then you wouldn't see airpower "whoring" the skys (i know i know where's the points in that..how stupid of me to think somebody might learn a BF2 skill that doesn't envolve getting 10000s of points).

And my one shout out the fighter pilots is this…stop chasing each others tails and hunt the choppers every once in a while…(for those who do, thanks).

Oh and EA/DICE, please give Wake Island a AAA tank..please

[colony]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

I have seen my team get battered from the air and not once have i heard anyone on my team say 'look do we have a decent pilot, cos lets make sure he gets up there.'

And you hit the nail on the head....

PEOPLE WHO PLAY THIS GAME DONT CARE ABOUT TEAMWORK, THEY CARE ONLY ABOUT POINTS

Noobs who tk for jets, get owned by other jets, tk for the jet again, then dies, rinse and repeat. Then they and the team wonder why they are getting raped every round. Maybe if that idiot noob didnt take the plane and die or crash in 2 mins everytime, you would get a better pilot in the air and keep the other pilots busy, which, GASP, means they wouldnt be raping your asses all day long.

There have been times where someone on my team would see my fly the round before and go "hey colony, here is the jet, take it" because they knew I would put it to good use.

[mr_o]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Who's for replacing Stinger/IGLA sites with Flak/AA Machine guns? =P

said this since day 1

PEOPLE WHO PLAY THIS GAME DONT CARE ABOUT TEAMWORK, THEY CARE ONLY ABOUT POINTS

also a good point. i came to the conclusion it was the ranking system that forced this issue more so than any other BF game

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

oh yeah and chris redfield, if you think AA shoots down jets with no effort than you have no clue what the hell youre talking about. try flares or even just some afterburning.... whining wont help though!

What?

[slam69]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

The best way to take on those damn jets and helio isn't the AA, it's THE Anti tanks.all you gotta do is make sure your visible to them and make them go in for the kill,then fire off your rocket and hope that it scares them enough to crash.lol

[PHPT]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

This is funny because of the ones waiting for jets, the majority cant fly worth doodoo and die in less than 2 minutes. Then they hate on the ones that can last whole rounds without being blown out of the sky and get jealous and create threads like this to nerf the aircraft's effect in bf2.

Probably because as soon as they get booted out of the sky, they're back on the ground getting owned, wondering "isn't there something else I can kill that with?" My sympathy on maps like Daqing is minimal because AA vehicles spank jets pretty bad right now. But hit maps like Gulf of Oman, Wake Island, and to a lesser extent Dragon Valley (because of the stupid amount of lock-breaking obstacles) and the planes rule the map, because the only thing that comes close to being able to take out a pilot with half a brain is another jet. Except that basically means if you're the best pilot, you win the map.

You want 10000 meter range? you want radar? you want 10 missile stingers?

Straw-man much? I'd rather see them get a range increase and a damage nerf, or at the very least, not show up on the jet HUD when they're manned.

The reason BF1942's flak worked so much better was basically because you could engage aircraft immediately and the damage they took was basically equal to the time they spent being careless. BF2's more like a carelessness time limit after which you die.

[BigBadBob]

Re: 1.22 - The AA is dummied down again...sigh

Why ?

what would that do? wouldn't stop people from using the jets. the better pilots will always die with their jet anyway (or die trying to steal one of theirs).