This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

[SK]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

[ (Min Deviation * Stance) + (Additional Shots) ] * (Zoom Mod) + [(Recoil) * Recoil Zoom Mod] + Dev added for Forward/Strafe

Standing, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.45 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.52 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 10.0 Deviation

Standing, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.36 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.41 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.05 Deviation


Prone, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.40 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 4.0 Deviation

Prone, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.24 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.32 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.02 Deviation


Strafing (standing), single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.65 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] + 0.6 = 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.5 = 1.02 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 10.2 Deviation

Strafing (standing), single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] + 0.2= 0.56 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] + 0.6= 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] + 0.5= 0.91 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.25 Deviation


This is how it is ingame right now. The PKM is on par with the assault rifles even when standing up, only when moving it is slightly worse than most of them. I like how the lmgs now really own when firing from the prone position, but the standing/crouching/moving accuracy should be worse, I´d like to see a time penalty in going prone with them too, compared to assault rifles.

[FunkyJunky]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Well the PK unlock is not one of my first choices. As for being hit far away, it's not too hard, since the effective range of a PK is 1000 meters. Using an AK on semi auto is a nice way to combat any MG in BF2. Drop down, one shot kills just like a sniper rifle. The most accurate round out of an AK in full auto is the first one fired. Use the terrain and circle around on these MG toting Support guys, start playing with a squad and one of is bound to get him and you're still able to be revived on the spot by one of your team mates.

[CaptKot]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Again these whiners. I mean be honest guys: you just suck. Don't try to blame dice for your "skills". It's all about you. Why do you whine?
Is it because you can't hit anything with the PKM but others do? and so you think its overpowered? Is it because you can't hit them with the sniper rifles?
I doesn't matter what dice does you will always be whining. That sucks about the community which is domminated by noobs. And as somebody said it before if you think its overpowered why don't you use it instead of trying to revive enemies? This is lame, common!

Just wanted to add that you guys are a pathetic bunch of losers! See ya on the battlefield, with my beloved PKM ;-)

losers!

[vbl]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I just got done using the PKM for a few days, and it certainly IS powerful. However, in order to work well, the shooter must be prone and stationary - which makes them prime bait for the more accurate, mobile weapons.

[Alcorr]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

mobile weapons.

Mobile weapons?

Like EVERY infatry weapon in the game?

Again these whiners. I mean be honest guys: you just suck. Don't try to blame dice for your "skills". It's all about you. Why do you whine?
Is it because you can't hit anything with the PKM but others do? and so you think its overpowered? Is it because you can't hit them with the sniper rifles?
I doesn't matter what dice does you will always be whining. That sucks about the community which is domminated by noobs. And as somebody said it before if you think its overpowered why don't you use it instead of trying to revive enemies? This is lame, common!

Just wanted to add that you guys are a pathetic bunch of losers! See ya on the battlefield, with my beloved PKM ;-)

losers!

That post disgusts me.

This is (I think) my first post in this thread.

If you knew what you were doing in 1.12 the pkm was pure ownage....

Now its insane. Im not complaining, but this change was quite uneccesary.

It was fine before, and to have such powerfully accurate weapons now (don't forget the mg36) is quite stupid considering they were fine before.

More powerful than assault rifles (yes it depends, but in general), huge magazines, unlimited ammo and grenades....

This was uneccesary, I won't ask dice to change it, but still....unneccesary.

[Mr Tough Pants]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

[ (Min Deviation * Stance) + (Additional Shots) ] * (Zoom Mod) + [(Recoil) * Recoil Zoom Mod] + Dev added for Forward/Strafe

Standing, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.45 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.52 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 10.0 Deviation

Standing, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.36 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.41 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.05 Deviation


Prone, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.40 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 4.0 Deviation

Prone, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.24 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.32 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.02 Deviation


Strafing (standing), single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.65 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] + 0.6 = 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.5 = 1.02 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 10.2 Deviation

Strafing (standing), single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] + 0.2= 0.56 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] + 0.6= 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] + 0.5= 0.91 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.25 Deviation

I knew the PKM without bipod was accurate in 1.2 but it's on par with a sniper rifle when prone now... :laugh:

The PKM dive and kill in the same instance does get annoying

[SK]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

However, in order to work well, the shooter must be prone and stationary - which makes them prime bait for the more accurate, mobile weapons.

This is a misconception. I quote my reply from the EA UK forums, as a poster there said the very same:

Yeah, everyone "knows" this, but that is more a psychological thing than the real gameplay situation. Two factors contribute to people automatically assuming that the PKM is of no use in crouch and standing positions:
a) it was the case pre 1.2 .
b) in other games and reality the "support"/machinegun guy has to be prone, everything else seems awkward.

For this reason, people automatically don´t really try shooting while standing with the LMGs, and if they do and hit they dismiss it as a random event that´s unlikely to happen again. I also always went prone because I thought so, but then I saw the data, and that even while standing the PKM is in fact more accurate than assault rifles. With this knowledge I tried shooting standing and crouching and wasn´t disappointed.


So to put things in perspective:
-The PKM is about three times as accurate as the assault rifles when prone.
-The PKM has about the same accuracy (a little better) than the assault rifles from prone and standing.

These are facts, everyone is free to look into the objects_server.zip file and look up the data themselves.

/edit: Oh yeah, the bullets of the PKM travel only at 500 m/s (as opposed to the 1000m/s of all non LMG guns). This means that bullet drop is more pronounced, so if you miss at higher distances that might not be the case because of deviation, but because the bullet falls short.


I can live with that, at least better than with the crappy dolphin diving, inaccurate support guns etc. pre 1.2 BF2. Nevertheless, I feel the PKM is a bit too good, as owning with it is really easy with it now.

[xisix]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Well.. .... my attitude has been over + over that if
EA makes a change with each patch then you adapt your playing style or chosen kits.

Getting spawn raped isn't fun but hopefully somebody will take you out if they are worth their metal.

[SK]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Again these whiners. I mean be honest guys: you just suck. Don't try to blame dice for your "skills". It's all about you. Why do you whine?
Is it because you can't hit anything with the PKM but others do? and so you think its overpowered? Is it because you can't hit them with the sniper rifles?

You just don´t get it, do you? Unlike with tanks, planes and helicopters there is no limited supply of this weapon. So everyone can just take support and use the PKM and own with it, cause it´s so easy. It´s not really unfair, as everyone is free to use the gun themselves.
It just destroys the diversity in BF2, the PKM being so good means that there´s not many reasons to take assault for example. IMHO every class should have it´s strengths and weaknesses. As it is now, the PKM has a lot of strengths (extremly accurate prone, as accurate as assault standing, no ammo problems...) and no major weaknesses, making it the ultimate projectile weapon bar none.

[Ghilleman]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

this sounds like what happened with the american AT in BF vietnam. (LAW rockets, M60 saw, grenades... it was uber death. anti-everything.)

[Digital-Boy]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

You just don´t get it, do you? Unlike with tanks, planes and helicopters there is no limited supply of this weapon. So everyone can just take support and use the PKM and own with it, cause it´s so easy. It´s not really unfair, as everyone is free to use the gun themselves.
It just destroys the diversity in BF2, the PKM being so good means that there´s not many reasons to take assault for example.

Dead on, right there. Balance among kits is a completely different thing than balance among vehicles. Yeah, some vehicles are better than others, but there's more flexibility for power differences there because of the very limited supply of vehicles. The kits, on the other hand, need to be balanced because there's no restriction on what kit you can choose. It'd be like Counter-Strike if everyone had infinite money; they'd just use all the strongest (usually the most expensive) weapons. (No, I am not advocating a percentage/number restriction on kits, so don't interpret it that way.)

[Robske007a]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I agree, the PKM is overpowered, with 450 RPM and 45 Damage, it only needs 3 shots to kill a person, on full auto that will take like .3 seconds, overreacting? i guess not!

[Eddy01741]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

This is what i would do, make all the LMGs recoil HORRENDOUS when not prone. Just like in DoD, then it will be much better.

[WarGimp]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

JEZZUS Peeps!

CONTEXT!

The G3 takes exactly the same number of shots to drop someone and has a faster rate of fire and better accuracy standing or crouching.

Sniper rifles have this really cool thing that lets you see further and spank people for a long distance. I think someone called it a "scope" or something.

Even the medic's L8 has had it's damage boosted up so at range you can do some serious damage.

This is really fuggin annoying. This community is way to full of people that think whining > adapting.

Yeah, support guns are monsters now.
DEAL WITH IT!

Edit: This is not to say that making comments on how things could be improved = whining or that the new mechanics aren't without flaws. I'm saying that if you're going to take issue with something atleast look at it logicly and make an attempt to deal with it in game before go off.

[Eddy01741]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

JEZZUS Peeps!

CONTEXT!

The G3 takes exactly the same number of shots to drop someone and has a faster rate of fire and better accuracy standing or crouching.

Sniper rifles have this really cool thing that lets you see further and spank people for a long distance. I think someone called it a "scope" or something.

Even the medic's L8 has had it's damage boosted up so at range you can do some serious damage.

This is really fuggin annoying. This community is way to full of people that think whining > adapting.

Yeah, support guns are monsters now.
DEAL WITH IT!

Edit: This is not to say that making comments on how things could be improved = whining or that the new mechanics aren't without flaws. I'm saying that if you're going to take issue with something atleast look at it logicly and make an attempt to deal with it in game before go off.

PKM vs. G3, the PKM has unlimited ammo (via ammo bags), the PKM does a bit more damage (good against already injured people), the PKM is more accurate in almost all situations, the only advantage the G3 has is the RoF, the G3 can take down a PKM in CQC cause it can spray faster.