This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I agree 100%...but you are leaving out the most important part of the video....

Didn't you realize how easy it was for him to kill people "off scope"? And he was neither crouching nor in prone position....He was standing up, he was at least 70-100 feet away from targets (not all of them, but most of them), he wasnt even zooming in. The weapon almost has no recoil and it's accuracy is amazing.

If you have played counter strike, or counter strike source for about 6 months, meaning you have good reflexes and you know how to aim, you can pretty much own 90% of the players in every server.

I mean I never wanted to open my mouth about this whole PKM issue. But after seeing that video, and those off scope kills, I really believe that it is totally overpowered.

If you are going to make a heavy automatic weapon like PKM highly accurate and overpowered, fine! but do the same to others. Make the M249 the same way or the M4 or the M203...you name it.

This is totally unfair and ridiculous. Yes you are right about the victim's mistakes. But that's not the point!

You shouldn't have watched the video that way. Watch the video to see how the guy gets amazingly easy kills with PKM and the kills I am talking about is off scope!!!

Nowhere in any army you get kills standing up, holding a 50 pound automatic weapon, without even friking aiming and yet kill people from 100 feet away! That's ridiculous even in an arcade game!

Okay, i may be wrong, but i believe there were 3 instances where the player made kills while in a standing, off scope position. Of the 2, the last one was on an opponent that was rather close, so i'll disgard that one...

BUT, the other two instances were at medium distance, with one kill made from a disadvantaged position, meaning he was below his target and the target was behind a wall for the most part, so the Support guy must have gotten a head shot, which indicates a very accurate shot, maybe too accurate for a standing shot from a PKM..

So i would have to say the PKM, could be tweaked down as far as STANDING accuracy, but believe the prone accuracy is fine...:)

[maranello]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Okay, i may be wrong, but i believe there were 3 instances where the player made kills while in a standing, off scope position. Of the 2 the last one was on an opponent that was rather close, so i'll disgard that one...

BUT, the other two instances were at medium distance, with one shooting from a disadvantaged position, meaning he was below his target and the target was behind a wall for the most part, so the Support guy must have gotten a head shot, which indicates a very accurate shot, maybe too accurate for a standing shot from a PKM..

So i would have to say the PKM, could be tweaked down as far as STANDING accuracy, but believe the prone accuracy is fine...:)

You are approaching the manner so theoratically you are missing the simplest point

Dont worry about other players, dont worry about how dumb or stupid they are:) Look at the guy's crosshairs in off scope position. Do you see any recoil? That's what I am talking about.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

You are approaching the manner so theoratically you are missing the simplest point

Dont worry about other players, dont worry about how dumb or stupid they are:) Look at the guy's crosshairs in off scope position. Do you see any recoil? That's what I am talking about.

So you're suggesting recoil added to the standing position? That would work...

Not sure about recoil from the prone position as the weapons are on bi-pods and i have no idea how recoil acts with a weapon that is supported in that way..:)

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I now consider the PKM to be the most versatile weapon hands down, up close it's like a shotgun, at medium range it's as good as any assault weapon (with the addition of an unending clip), and at extreme ranges it is a fully automatic sniper rifle without a scope, comparable damage, and of course that unexhaustable supply of rounds.

This video is a good example of how much ass a PKM can kick, but not a great example. Really, you have no excuse whatsoever to not prone and go in iron sights with the PKM unless you're at point-blank ranges.

A quick jump with a smooth transition to a prone position to throw your enemy off, iron sights, and a steady yet quick tap tap tap tap and you've got yourself a weapon that is 100% accurate and as long as your aim is on, you're getting some skin, so accurate in fact even at great distances able to accurately make an attempt to aim for a headshot.

I'll think I'll Fraps some leet camping action with a PKM from ranges myself, ranges that most people would've only consider viable in 1.12 for a scoped sniper rifle, but the PKM can do these extreme ranges with a exceptional accuracy.

[CaptKot]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Wickeddevil why don't you create a petition to make the PKM weaker and to ban me from this forum? You can invest loads of time in trying that.

Common you know what I'm thinking of ya.

Gonna go pwn some with my beloved PKM.

Keep it real ;-)

[motorboatJones]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

It doesn't matter. If the Support guy sees you about to snipe him, he prones and starts hosing. If you don't get that shot off immediately through his forehead, consider yourself critically injured.

To me it's not what weapon you use as much as it is who gets off the first shot. I have been wasted by M16s because they saw me and fired on me before I saw them. I have killed people with a pistol because I shot first. That and where you shoot are the two most important aspects of winning a shootout.

[imported_ExtraSolar]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

This post actually makes some sense. I remember when the game first came out, the support class really blew. You couldn't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun from 2 feet. Now you just go prone and spray.

I agree about the big changes with Support and AA. Should be toned to about 50% or half way between original and new.

[SK]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

That vid doesn´t surprise me at all, look at the table with the deviations while standing I posted before. It´s just fact that even while standing the PKM isn´t at a disadvantage to the assault rifles, no matter how many people state that they "feel" they have to go prone.

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I'd have to agree with Wargimp when saying adapt, everyone premturely complains when changes are made because they're almost giving up before adapting their techniques.

Fact is the PKM is not great up close, firing from standing or crouched is very inaccurate and in a CQB fight you simply DO NOT have the time to go prone, even if you do people can run circles around you. If you encounter a PKM who is prone long range then retreat or try to flank, throw grenades out from behind cover, chances are he wont have time to get up and run from a well placed grenade.

if you've got one following you, hide around a corner, force him to come in close range and you'll imediatly have the advantage.

The Support gun is for suppression, get 1-2 support guys firing down a street/ally and it becomes a dead zone, they cannot assault around the map effectivly they have to largly wait for enemys to walk into their trap where they've set themselfs up to be most effective.

Every class has its benefits, support is to kick a lot of ass and setup hard to breach defence, if you're assaulting into a line of defence that inlcude support who's ready for you, you had better have a good plan other than just to run in guns blazing, because that wont work.

[SK]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Fact is the PKM is not great up close, firing from standing or crouched is very inaccurate and in a CQB fight you simply DO NOT have the time to go prone, even if you do people can run circles around you.

For the 20th time: The PKM is NOT very inaccurate standing or crouched. That was the case pre 1.2, but it´s not anymore. It is infact as accurate as the assault rifles standing and more accurate crouched.
People, please have a look at the game data before always repeating stuff which has been proven wrong some thread pages ago.

[BRUTALITEEEEEEEEE]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

If you think the class is so UBER, well, then play as a support,
the support weapons got more acurate, but still , a normal assault weapon or sniper will be the winner on long distance , also other weapons have the luxury of beeing still acurate when standing, support weapons still need to be used prone, otherwise you won't hit much on medium long distance .

Completly agree!

Do I think the guns are "uber", No....the PKM is a little out there though. I've been picked off by that thing so many times from such a LONG distance. I absolutely LOVE the MG36 because I play alot of Spec-ops and love the feel of the "36" guns. The PKM sounds like your shooting a bunch of slami's at people :laugh: *flub, flub, flub, flub!:laugh:

The only thing I think that has changed is now you can actually HIT that broad side of a barn with the support weapons. An assault rifle or spec-ops gun will still tear you up in not time.

(ya know, my signature's meaning seems to be getting stronger)

[SK]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

For the 21st time: It is not true that assault guns are better from standing or crouching positions.

Standing, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.45 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.52 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 10.0 Deviation

Standing, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.36 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.41 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.05 Deviation


Prone, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.40 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 4.0 Deviation

Prone, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.24 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.32 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.02 Deviation


Strafing (standing), single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.65 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] + 0.6 = 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.5 = 1.02 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 10.2 Deviation

Strafing (standing), single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] + 0.2= 0.56 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] + 0.6= 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] + 0.5= 0.91 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.25 Deviation


I think I´m gonna post this chart every single time from now on when someone comes babbling how the PKM is inaccurate from standing. Can´t you people just for one time look at the facts before repeating old info that is obsolete?

[DigitalSeraph]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Well, since everyone else seems to have an opinion on this i figured i'd better too.

I started in December, took spec ops g36? as my first unlock, then the PKM. been using it since january (before patch).

Pre-patch impressions: Couldn't hit anything if i was standing... ever. even right in front of me. If crouched i could hit nothing close and nothing far, but from 20-100m i rocked.
It was frustrating. Now matter how well or carefully i lined up the reticle or used controlled bursts or blew through ammo, the dispersion made it pointless.

After patch: Actually enjoying it now, seems to be about right to me. I hit some when i come around a corner and don't prone, but lose about 1/2 time. I can hit at medium and long range standing, but it takes a while to get a kill, i usually prone unless i am behind a wall.
When proned, medium range is still the sweet spot, though if i line up very carefully, and use short bursts, i can hit at long ranges, even beating snipers if i spot them first.
It feels more like i am rewarded for taking carefull aim and not spraying, as soon as i get a lead trigger finger, the dispersion takes over and i hit less and less. this makes it fun, reward for skill.
Sorry snipers, but you had it coming. (my other onlock was the m95 so no flame)

[Leki]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

How can anyone possibly claim the strengths of a certain class make the game unfair? As long as the same classes are available to everyone then it is, by definition, fair.

You have 3 options:

1. Stop whining and never play again
2. Stop whining and play support
3. Stop whining and play a different kit.

Either way you have the exact same options as everyone else has, so stop whining.

If the strenth of a certain class is too strong then its not balanced with the other classes.....so by your logic if one class in bf2 had a gun that instantly killed any enemy on screen with one click and you didn't have to aim then bf2 would be ok and fair just because anyone could use it?

[Jlspence]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Anywho, Leki, I've actually only done that once or twice on Karkand, never tried the spray from the crane on Sharki. I've got to try that. :)

Anyone that claims to be able to kill anyone firing full auto from the crane on Sharqi is BSing...pure and simple. Sure the first shot out of the PKM and MG36 are accurate but after that the deviations kick in and you're not going to hit anything at distance. I've used the support LMGs before the patch and after...the LMGs were deadly in close quarters combat before the patch and they still are afterwards. They now have good first shot accuracy from the prone position at medium distances.