Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

[(EWC)HisChadness]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

DICE has shown time and time again that they don't know the game half as well as they think. FFS look at all the bugs created in 1.2 that would've taken 5min of playing on a server to become aware of the bug. Yet DICE had no idea they were even there. I hate to say it, but it looks real bad that almost a year after the games release the devs are saying something is an exploit that has been a part of the game since day 1. What kind of testing do these people do? Do they even play the game and patches when they are released?

And don't think pubs are going to be any better because of this. Because almost no one in a pub knew how to squad hop or they didn't care. The general pubber is too conerned with getting his flashy .jpg medals and ranks then actually using team work. So if you want to blame someone for the lack of teamwork that pubbing represents then you should blame DICE and EA for the ranking system which turned this game into a RPG for FPS where people feel the need to stat pad and go do stupid things like blowing up arty when there are no flags left to spawn at etc. so they can get points. Its rediculous.

[imported_JoeMango]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

^^^^ Yar.

But what kind of replys do you expect on a pub forum, 90% of the time talking about unlocks, stats, medals, made up hacks, comparisons of time played and whatnot xD

[slon26]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

i don't care, just because they already screwup game. lack of many pro features since release.

[Crimson87]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Okay reading through this....

What exactly is the problem with squad hopping in the first place?
Are people just having trouble eliminating entire squads? Thats part of the game. A squad is supposed to be Hard as hell to kill. Makes for rewarding good teamwork and punishing lonewolves. Forces the game to be played like it's supposed to be.

It makes no sence why they are removing this.

[Pilioka]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Close to 4700 people have signed it. That's quite a lot of people. Hopefully EA looks at the petition and realizes they are making an unrequested, unneeded change..

[LoganX]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Close to 4700 people have signed it. That's quite a lot of people. Hopefully EA looks at the petition and realizes they are making an unrequested, unneeded change..

Only a small percentage of people actually playing.
Wargimp had the numbers before.

[Painboy]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

I don't think people realise what a MASSIVE change this will have on gameplay for some.

When BF2 was released I didn't care for the squad hopping. I certainly didn't like losing to the first clans who perfected it's use . I was used to the BF1942 way of things and it was a little strange at first. If they had decided to "fix" it a month after release I wouldn't have cared. But we are almost a year in and it's a little late to be overhauling the whole system. Every clan strat for a map will be rendered meaningless overnight. While pubbers may not care, that's a lot of worked just flushed down the toilet. People have put a lot of time and effort into formulating and rehearsing those strategies.

I don't have time to pull out every quote in this thread so I'll try to summarize some people's objections as best I can.

"It's not that big a change and there have been other changes before, get over it."

The changes so far have been some bug fixes and some kit, vehicle, and weapon rebalancing. There is no more ultra class, the support kit is actually useful, and AA works (better at least). It changed some peoples play styles some but they adapted and moved on. Changing the Squad hop fundamentally alters the entire gameplay. It would be like if DICE decided that you only needed 1 spawn point in the whole game and you had to travel from there to any of the objective points every time you died. Yes it would make it more "tactical" or "realistic" but it wouldn't be the same game would it? I would also guess it wouldn't be as fun either.

"What's wrong with the SL just staying back and providing the spawn point."

While some people may not find this a dull job I think the vast majority would. Because the reality would be that the SL is more valuable as a close spawn than have him risking combat. Which basically means his job consists of hiding in corner and running away like a little school girl any time anyone starts shooting at him. To make matters worse a good commander will notice the one guy standing back behind everyone and either route someone over to kill him or just drop arty on him. And just like that the push is dead. And in an 8v8 match (the most popular competitively) assuming a commander and 2 squad leaders you have a total of 5 guys actually fighting. Whoopee. Sounds like fun to me.

"The designers didn't intend it."

I am familiar with the thread where that was mentioned. I understand that that is true. However sometimes (in fact many times) good things come out of unintended uses for things. The internet was certainly not intended to play video games on or talk about them yet here we are. I think in this case DICE should roll with this accident.

"It doesn't take any teamwork to do it."

It actually takes quite a bit of communication, coordination, and timing to do it properly. Especially in a competitive match. I will grant it doesn't take "skill" to do it but it does take teamwork. Remember the other side is doing it too.

"It's more realistic to not squad hop."

Although I'm leary of going down the realism highway I will say it's not entirely realistic for Squad leaders to have their own personal teleporters on them either. At least they didn't when I was in the Army. Like much of the BF series the mudane realities are edited out as much as possible so everyone can get to the "good stuff" faster.

"Just make a mod where it works in clan matches but not in pubs."

One of the best uses for squad hopping is in the pubs actually. It makes it much easier to stick with your friends. If your SL dies it can take forever to get the squad to link back up. This is especially true if you play on the larger 32+ servers where vehicles can become scarce. In pubs my clan uses it primarily to keep working with each other more so than just some cheap tactic. At the very least make squad hopping server selectable.

"Most people in pubs don't use it so who cares."

Exactly. Most people don't even notice it so why change it if most are ambivalent. Half the replies who want to get rid of it are probably just finding out about it reading this thread. If it wasn't a problem then why is it now?

"This will prevent clans from using cheap tactics and help pubbers."

No it won't. As other posters have pointed out if the proposed description is true there is a way around it. The only thing it does is make it needlessly convultated to perform. Which only widens the gap between pubbers and clans because clans will still be willing to do it. Also as others posted getting rid of the squad hop will increase base raping on a large scale in most maps.

"Well dumbass what's you suggestion then?"

I would propose two things: As mentioned by others make it a server selectable option. If you don't like it go to another server.

The other would be to automate the squad cycle. When the SL dies someone is automatically promoted to his position. This way the spawn is on the Squad and not just the person. Orders would be retained by the squad and not the person. This allows everyone in the squad to fight and makes people retreat only if they're the last man. (For those craving a realistic justification for this just think of the next guy in line picking up the SLs magical teleport beacon when he dies). If they really wanted to do it right they would make it so the SL is actually independent of this process so he could maintain VOIP with the commander and still issue orders whether he was the spawn point or not.

"The petition was written poorly."

Yes it was but as far as I know it's the only one so that's why I signed it.

"You know none of what you wrote will matter."

What can I say I like fighting desperate battles against impossible odds. :)

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Well, what's funny about those general instructions, and the squad, divide and form two squads command, is that it makes the "never intended" argument weaker and weaker.

No, a "divide squad" command doesn't make the "never intended" argument weaker in any way. You will still be able to split squads as much as you want if squadhopping will get removed - while the squad is alive! The difference is, the dead people won't be able to spawn into a squad they haven't played with before. This shows us that the intention of this feature was to keep a squad together, but not to give everyone 8 mobile spawn points to choose from after every death.

[Hart.com]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

I dont squad hop much !:thatsbad:
But i do leave and join my own squad to make my Squad mate leader
so i can spawn on him !
but i consider this different and good for the teamplay.
The best way is to be squadleader as Medic and hang back to stay alive so your squadies can respawn on you !!:yay:

:salute: :salute: :salute:

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

The other would be to automate the squad cycle. When the SL dies someone is automatically promoted to his position. This way the spawn is on the Squad and not just the person. Orders would be retained by the squad and not the person. This allows everyone in the squad to fight and makes people retreat only if they're the last man.

Squadcycling won't be nerfed that much with the fixed described in the leaked patch info. If the squadleader dies, the remaining survivors can make their new squad, and if the SL is really desperate he can suicide to teleport back after spawning at a flag.

But squadhopping will be fixed and this is more important IMHO. So that the dead people will only have the flags and ONE mobile spawnpoint to choose from, the latter only if they stay in their squad.

And if it does NOT get nerfed it SHOULD get automated and they should make more hotkeys so you don't have to spend clanwars in the squadmenu instead of playing on the battlefield.

[Hart.com]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

I don't think people realise what a MASSIVE change this will have on gameplay for some.

When BF2 was released I didn't care for the squad hopping. I certainly didn't like losing to the first clans who perfected it's use . I was used to the BF1942 way of things and it was a little strange at first. If they had decided to "fix" it a month after release I wouldn't have cared. But we are almost a year in and it's a little late to be overhauling the whole system. Every clan strat for a map will be rendered meaningless overnight. While pubbers may not care, that's a lot of worked just flushed down the toilet. People have put a lot of time and effort into formulating and rehearsing those strategies.

I don't have time to pull out every quote in this thread so I'll try to summarize some people's objections as best I can.

"It's not that big a change and there have been other changes before, get over it."

The changes so far have been some bug fixes and some kit, vehicle, and weapon rebalancing. There is no more ultra class, the support kit is actually useful, and AA works (better at least). It changed some peoples play styles some but they adapted and moved on. Changing the Squad hop fundamentally alters the entire gameplay. It would be like if DICE decided that you only needed 1 spawn point in the whole game and you had to travel from there to any of the objective points every time you died. Yes it would make it more "tactical" or "realistic" but it wouldn't be the same game would it? I would also guess it wouldn't be as fun either.

"What's wrong with the SL just staying back and providing the spawn point."

While some people may not find this a dull job I think the vast majority would. Because the reality would be that the SL is more valuable as a close spawn than have him risking combat. Which basically means his job consists of hiding in corner and running away like a little school girl any time anyone starts shooting at him. To make matters worse a good commander will notice the one guy standing back behind everyone and either route someone over to kill him or just drop arty on him. And just like that the push is dead. And in an 8v8 match (the most popular competitively) assuming a commander and 2 squad leaders you have a total of 5 guys actually fighting. Whoopee. Sounds like fun to me.

"The designers didn't intend it."

I am familiar with the thread where that was mentioned. I understand that that is true. However sometimes (in fact many times) good things come out of unintended uses for things. The internet was certainly not intended to play video games on or talk about them yet here we are. I think in this case DICE should roll with this accident.

"It doesn't take any teamwork to do it."

It actually takes quite a bit of communication, coordination, and timing to do it properly. Especially in a competitive match. I will grant it doesn't take "skill" to do it but it does take teamwork. Remember the other side is doing it too.

"It's more realistic to not squad hop."

Although I'm leary of going down the realism highway I will say it's not entirely realistic for Squad leaders to have their own personal teleporters on them either. At least they didn't when I was in the Army. Like much of the BF series the mudane realities are edited out as much as possible so everyone can get to the "good stuff" faster.

"Just make a mod where it works in clan matches but not in pubs."

One of the best uses for squad hopping is in the pubs actually. It makes it much easier to stick with your friends. If your SL dies it can take forever to get the squad to link back up. This is especially true if you play on the larger 32+ servers where vehicles can become scarce. In pubs my clan uses it primarily to keep working with each other more so than just some cheap tactic. At the very least make squad hopping server selectable.

"Most people in pubs don't use it so who cares."

Exactly. Most people don't even notice it so why change it if most are ambivalent. Half the replies who want to get rid of it are probably just finding out about it reading this thread. If it wasn't a problem then why is it now?

"This will prevent clans from using cheap tactics and help pubbers."

No it won't. As other posters have pointed out if the proposed description is true there is a way around it. The only thing it does is make it needlessly convultated to perform. Which only widens the gap between pubbers and clans because clans will still be willing to do it. Also as others posted getting rid of the squad hop will increase base raping on a large scale in most maps.

"Well dumbass what's you suggestion then?"

I would propose two things: As mentioned by others make it a server selectable option. If you don't like it go to another server.

The other would be to automate the squad cycle. When the SL dies someone is automatically promoted to his position. This way the spawn is on the Squad and not just the person. Orders would be retained by the squad and not the person. This allows everyone in the squad to fight and makes people retreat only if they're the last man. (For those craving a realistic justification for this just think of the next guy in line picking up the SLs magical teleport beacon when he dies). If they really wanted to do it right they would make it so the SL is actually independent of this process so he could maintain VOIP with the commander and still issue orders whether he was the spawn point or not.

"The petition was written poorly."

Yes it was but as far as I know it's the only one so that's why I signed it.

"You know none of what you wrote will matter."

What can I say I like fighting desperate battles against impossible odds. :)

:blabla: :blabla: :blabla: :blabla: :blabla:

how many people have read all that then
lol:salute:

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

No, a "divide squad" command doesn't make the "never intended" argument weaker in any way. You will still be able to split squads as much as you want if squadhopping will get removed - while the squad is alive! The difference is, the dead people won't be able to spawn into a squad they haven't played with before. This shows us that the intention of this feature was to keep a squad together, but not to give everyone 8 mobile spawn points to choose from after every death.

From YOUR prospective. If you can split the squad (totally negating you "keepiong the squad together argument), but no one can spawn until they spawn somewhere else, what would be the tactical advantage of spliting the squad? What difference does it make that you split a living squad, and people that are on the other side of the map join? If they can't spawn into the situation in which the command was needed than it is ....pointless.

Squadcycling won't be nerfed that much with the fixed described in the leaked patch info. If the squadleader dies, the remaining survivors can make their new squad, and if the SL is really desperate he can suicide to teleport back after spawning at a flag.

It will do the exact same thing to rotating as it does to hopping. New squad leader, whether it is the same squad, or a random squad, you wont be able to spawn on them till you spawn somewhere else.

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

What difference does it make that you split a living squad, and people that are on the other side of the map join? If they can't spawn into the situation in which the command was needed than it is ....pointless.

No, you just overlooked the fact that splitting the squad will enable one half of the squad to still spawn on their squadleader if the other squadleader will die. Splitting 6 into 3+3 can make sense with squadhopping as it can without. You seem to think the ability so split a squad of 6 people was only made to make room for dead people to teleport into the action, as you'd see no difference without squadhopping.

It will do the exact same thing to rotating as it does to hopping. New squad leader, whether it is the same squad, or a random squad, you wont be able to spawn on them till you spawn somewhere else.

Yes, it will still help you to keep people together, but not to spawn so many people into the radius of a flag in the split of a second before you actually captured it.

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

No, you just overlooked the fact that splitting the squad will enable one half of the squad to still spawn on their squadleader if the other squadleader will die. Splitting 6 into 3+3 can make sense with squadhopping as it can without. You seem to think the ability so split a squad of 6 people was only made to make room for dead people to teleport into the action.

Nope, didn't overlook anything. THere would still be no point in spliting a squad if you can't have re-enforcements spawning on them, as they are still only 6 players.

Yes, it will still help you to keep people together, but not to spawn so many people into the radius of a flag in the split of a second before you actually captured it

Keeping them together isn't the point, it's having others to be able to come back you up in a fight for a flag. The effect of the supposed new change will be the same whether you are hopping or rotating. If your squad makes a new squad, (or the old squadleader dies) and everyone joins, than you still have a new squadleader that no one can spawn on till they spawn somewhere else. You can have a group of lonewolves stay together an entire match and not be in the same squad.

[Snypynfool]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

.,.,.