Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

[Painboy]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

LOL, I love how the noobs are defending squad hopping because they say it is a valuable way of helping the tema of winning, yet they are the ones that never pass out ammo/medic packs, lone wolf, be snipers when they join a squad, and most importantly, play for points. I know this is not the case on clan matches which are the minority and really shouldn't be taken for their advice since they are the minority and already use dirty tactics in order to win anyway which are against the whole competetive thing.

Not to sound condescending but I don't think many people really understand how squad hopping is actually used. It isn't used in place or in opposition to "real" tactics. It is used in a complimentary way. People still watch each others back, move and shoot together, mass fire and all the other stuff those who stay in one squad do. It just gives added flexibilty and allows everyone to fight. In my experience most "noobs" don't use it and are generally unaware of even how to properly. Understanding when and where you need to spawn for maximum effect takes quite a bit of situational awareness. You have to be constantly aware of where everyone on your side is, where you think the enemy is, and rapidly figure out the best place to reinforce if you die.

Some may say just use the flag spawn points in that case. Most good clans know where all the spawn zones are for each point and have them covered, so if you spawn in a contested flag your going to get spawn killed. By having other options to spawn you reduce this and force them to behave more cautiously.

Actually, if a squad of non hoppers went against the hoppers, they wouldn't have a problem beating them if they know what they are doing.
I could easily lead a squad that could beat the hoppers because everytime you hop, for one, you spawn when someone else hasn't, so you either go in alone one by one, or spawn in with all the same kits. I can imagine 4 AT guys spawning in on the SL, which makes them pretty much fodder for a squad balanced with 2 meds, 1-2 assault, 1 AT, and 1 support.

Again this is not how good clans (and honestly most clans that I have seen who use it) run it. The way it works is that everyone makes there own squad. When one dies they exit the squad and find someone nearby or another squad who may need help elsewhere on the map. They join that squad and spawn with whatever kit they think will be useful or that is requested by the squad they are spawning on. Need AT, spawn AT. Need a Medic, spawn Medic, and so on. If things are too hot that person backs off for a moment to let reinforcements spawn, new squads are then created by each individual spawning, and the push for the objective begins again in force.

All things being equal a team using squad hopping will always beat a team that doesn't. Because the team that does is taking advantage of all it's options, while the other is limiting itself. If you doubt that then ask yourself why every major clan uses it. If it was so easy to beat then no one would still use it. In fact I don't think I have been in a match a month past BF2's release where a clan did not use some form of it.

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Understanding when and where you need to spawn for maximum effect takes quite a bit of situational awareness. You have to be constantly aware of where everyone on your side is, where you think the enemy is, and rapidly figure out the best place to reinforce if you die.

Yes, but many people would like to concentrate on their squad and the people in it. The squadsystem was meant to make organisation easier by implementing a "divide and conquer" scheme, but that does not work obviously when everybody needs to be aware of everybody else's position if you don't want to have a big disadvantage. The commander was supposed to have the great overview while the squads were supposed to perform their tasks.

Some may say just use the flag spawn points in that case. Most good clans know where all the spawn zones are for each point and have them covered, so if you spawn in a contested flag your going to get spawn killed. By having other options to spawn you reduce this and force them to behave more cautiously.

Without squadhopping, if the enemy manages to control every spawn point, you have to spawn back in your HQ and let the enemy take the flag. Just as the attacker would have accept to attack again from a flag if he fails to attack. But if he succeeds you had to accept that you must counter-attack from one of your flags. This is what the conquest gamemode is all about.

Again this is not how good clans (and honestly most clans that I have seen who use it) run it. The way it works is that everyone makes there own squad. When one dies they exit the squad and find someone nearby or another squad who may need help elsewhere on the map. They join that squad and spawn with whatever kit they think will be useful or that is requested by the squad they are spawning on. Need AT, spawn AT. Need a Medic, spawn Medic, and so on.

What about planning ahead, trying to aniticipate what the enemy will do and equip your squads accordingly instead? This would be the alternative if squadhopping got removed.

All things being equal a team using squad hopping will always beat a team that doesn't. Because the team that does is taking advantage of all it's options, while the other is limiting itself. If you doubt that then ask yourself why every major clan uses it. If it was so easy to beat then no one would still use it. In fact I don't think I have been in a match a month past BF2's release where a clan did not use some form of it.

Generally I agree, a non-squadhopping clan can't stand a chance against a decent squadhopping clan.

Of course almost every clan uses it because you want to be competetive, and you can only beat squadhopping by squadhopping yourself. But not everyone enjoys it.

If the BF2 maps would have been designed towards that typical clanwar gameplay as you describe it, then why do I need to do so many repetetive clicks each time before I spawn?

Why can't I just spawn on a squadleader by double-clicking his number on the overview map while I am dead?

Why do I have to look where his number is running around on the squadscreen's overview map, look which squad name corresponds to that number, join that squad, switch from squadscreen to spawnscreen, and finally choose him as a spawnpoint and spawn?!? It's absolutely dull, repetetive and inconvenient and has nothing to do with skill. To choose where to spawn may take some "skill" - but not to perform that far too many repetetive clicks to archieve the freedom of spawning wherever you want.

[schadie001]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

I find it hysterical that all the "Pro" gamers and Comp/Clan people are supporting a so-called feature that doesn't even represent ANY skill at Playing the Game. You know...killing people...using a Vehicle...superior tactics to out maneuver your opponent.

All they're screaming about is that they can't teleport their squads around any more.

Whatever happened to real gaming skill on the Playing field???

No...what we are complaining about is that bugs aren't being fixed.... the game is being nerfed to the point that being in a squad really isn't an advantage as it should be. I for one think it is a far better skill/'tactic to rotate squad leaders, create a dead pool that can spawn in where they are needed. It is a total team effort.

This is just one feature that clans/ comp players use. Trust me there are tons more. Do yourselfs a favor and FIGURE THEM OUT. I for one leave a squad that doesn't rotate SL. To me they aren't helping our team stay in the fight.

Once this feature is removed, be prepared for Spawn Camping cuz trust me clan and comp players study where all the spawn points are for every map. Squad will hold no advantage and being a SL will be even less. Basically you are taken out of the game, you are the mobile spawn point and now that you won't be able to change SL you'll have to hide somewhere. BIG FUN that will be. Hiding the whole round.

Let's just NERF this game to the point that everyone can be a General. It will take no skill, what so ever to play, because there won't be things left in the game that take a little time to figure out.

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Once this feature is removed, be prepared for Spawn Camping cuz trust me clan and comp players study where all the spawn points are for every map.

Just as I wrote above, I don't think that the spawncamping argument is valid. You failed defending if the enemy manages to spawncamp every spawnpoint. You must retreat then. And if the enemy fails attacking completely (the SL and everyone else died) then he must attack from a flag again. The gamemode is called "conquest", not "deathmatch".

For the commander argument of the petition: The defender's commander can see you attacking - but the attacker's commander can spot the defenders too! The attackers can choose a path covered from enemy fire if they know where the defenders hide. Of course that would take more skill instead of sacrificing one squadleader after the other but just keep moving forward nevertheless. But it would be far from impossible to attack flags then, as the petition tries to put it.

Squad will hold no advantage and being a SL will be even less. Basically you are taken out of the game, you are the mobile spawn point and now that you won't be able to change SL you'll have to hide somewhere. BIG FUN that will be. Hiding the whole round.

Clans usually hide players as so-called "safe spawns" already now. Altough you can spawn on anyone, it's always a wise decision to keep a safe spawnpoint hiding somewhere so you NEVER have to spawn at a flag actually if you don't need to fetch a tank or something like that. So the concept of staying back instead of playing Rambo is nothing completely new, especially in clanwars.


And generally, if squadhopping is "intended usage", then why do I have to perform so many clicks?
1. Go into the squad screen
2. Look for a squadleader to spawn at
3. Join his squad
4. Go to the spawn screen and spawn

This is totally inconvenient. If DICE intended everyone to be able to choose from several mobile spawnpoints they would have made every squadleader as a choosable spawnpoint in the spawn screen - your own SL having a different color perhaps. If you choose another SL as a spawnpoint, you'd automatically join his squad. If it would be that way, it would be intended.

But it isn't this way. It's unintended. It's an exploit.

If squadhopping is not removed, they should as least make every squadleader a spawnpoint in the spawn screen as I described above in this posting, giving squadhopping the "accolade" this way. The possibilities of gameplay wouldn't change compared to now, but you'd save a lot of repetetive mouse clicks in the menus.

Removing the need to cycle the squadleader would be very convenient too, by giving every squad a spawn point as long as anyone in the squad is alive.

Still I'd rather like to see squadhopping removed. But if it's not removed or made optional, it should be made more convenient.

[WarGimp]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Round and round and round this goes... obviously there's not going to be any resolution between the two sides of this issue. Those who like the feature want it to stay. Those who feel the feature is actually and exploit want it gone. No one is changing anyone else's mind.

That said, is it possible that everyone can agree that the best way to go would be to have it a server side setting?

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

That said, is it possible that everyone can agree that the best way to go would be to have it a server side setting?

Definitely

But with one option being "squadhopping the convenient way" as I described in my posting above.

[old sch00l]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

keep squad hopping mother fu7cker's

ALL your base

[canadacow]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Where do you make theeses petitions? I would like to make one: give bf2 more realistic strategies

[Tranzphat]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Well, the folks that continue to compaign to nerf the game seem to be winning over time and as they taylor the game to their design less and less people will play.

Here is the blunt fact, I have not played any other FPS were core elements of game play were changed as radicially as they are in this game. It is one thing to fix glitches and issues but the level of monking with the formula in this game is beyond silly. Particularly when it seems to be driven by the whinners that can't deal.

LOL, anyone that thinks that BF2 is fast paced must have the very slow reflexes. BF2 is not nearly as fast paced as other FPS in its current form. Like I said Mr. Brown Ghost Recon comes out in a few days.:)

By the way, EA should be concerned about what clans and comp teams think because we are a big part of the engine that keeps a FPS going. Who do you think runs most of the public servers and keep the game on life support to attract other players.

[WarGimp]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Here is the blunt fact, I have not played any other FPS were core elements of game play were changed as radicially as they are in this game. It is one thing to fix glitches and issues but the level of monking with the formula in this game is beyond silly. Particularly when it seems to be driven by the whinners that can't deal.

You obviously never played Tribes 2!
That one took a major league left turn after a longer time than BF2 has been out. The interesting thing is that it was in the opposite direction. Rather than "noobifying" the game, the came out with a patch that catored to the hardcore comp fans (or l33t d00ds, if you prefer).

Very interesting to note... they lost half the player base almost over night. That's not an exageration. Within a few days, the player counts went from second highest FPS being played (second to CS) to almost dropping off the top 10 list. League play continued for quite awhile, but the community as a whole died.

This really should tell you that no matter how much you think it's the pros that keep a game alive, you're wrong.

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

You obviously never played Tribes 2!
That one took a major league left turn after a longer time than BF2 has been out. The interesting thing is that it was in the opposite direction. Rather than "noobifying" the game, the came out with a patch that catored to the hardcore comp fans (or l33t d00ds, if you prefer).

Very interesting to note... they lost half the player base almost over night. That's not an exageration. Within a few days, the player counts went from second highest FPS being played (second to CS) to almost dropping off the top 10 list. League play continued for quite awhile, but the community as a whole died.

This really should tell you that no matter how much you think it's the pros that keep a game alive, you're wrong.

Oh come on Gimpy, you even said yourself that basing anything happening in BF2 on what happened in Tribes is pointless. The only reason EA even runs public servers is because of money kicked back from the THOUSANDS rented by clans.

[Brutus]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Just check this petition out and giv it some thout an sign it.
The link to it is:
www.bf2.se/petition/

Pleas spred this one to other BF2 forums

No thanks.

[WarGimp]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Oh come on Gimpy, you even said yourself that basing anything happening in BF2 on what happened in Tribes is pointless. The only reason EA even runs public servers is because of money kicked back from the THOUSANDS rented by clans.

Hmm... I don't recall making such statment.
The point I was attempting to make is that folks chronicly over estimate how important high-level play is to the health of a game franchise. In T2 (and subsequently the abysmal, but high level aimed Tribes: Vengeance) it was a fatel mistake.

I'm NOT saying that clans and leagues aren't important, but when compaired to the noob/casual player base it's simply not as important as some folks like to think.

Anyway, it's an interesting case history and worth considering.

I'm out to do some drinkin.

[Pilioka]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Clanbase, be it competative or for pubbing, is the most important part of any online game. Without it there is no reason for that game to exist with a large playerbase for longer than a few months.

To those of you who think clans or groups of people supporting a game aren't what holding it together then you are very mistaken.

[vbl]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Hmm... I don't recall making such statment.
The point I was attempting to make is that folks chronicly over estimate how important high-level play is to the health of a game franchise. In T2 (and subsequently the abysmal, but high level aimed Tribes: Vengeance) it was a fatel mistake.

I'm NOT saying that clans and leagues aren't important, but when compaired to the noob/casual player base it's simply not as important as some folks like to think.

Anyway, it's an interesting case history and worth considering.

I'm out to do some drinkin.

The relationship is pretty tenuous. The Tribes changes directly affected everyone's gameplay.

Removing squadhopping doesn't affect novice players. Most of them don't know about it, much less actually do it. They probably don't encounter other people doing it that frequently, either.

Lots of folks have been crying that it should be removed because it's some game-breaking exploit, but the reality is that short of a few posts by Wargimp, most folks didn't know what the hell it was until it came up in the patch notes.