Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

[solodude23]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

I don't see how our little 64 player server with a set of tweaks weakens your PR community, especially as in .05 we properly named it with server name and messages. There are lots of fun aspects to this mod. There are others that are in our opinion are distinctly not fun. We just want to run our ssms. I don't see how it got so over the top.

Yeah, but it wasn't only you guys. At times there were 3 other modded servers, some of which were not named to allow the public to know it was not PR in its purest form. These "little servers" add up.

In addition, remember my post stating that it is not always the fact that people are unaware of the short spawn servers.

Sorry but the devs dont have rights over spawn times on servers imo

thats been the precedent since the start of online gaming im afraid.

Then the mod isn't your cup-o-tea. So be it. If you can't play good enough to not die along with the fact that you are too impatient to wait for your spawn then maybe PR is not for you.

[=CDU=Jochen_Peip]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

That is the real point here isn't it. It's not about controlling the mod.... it's about controlling the community. Play it our way or leave. I'd expect that from EA not a mod development team.

[solodude23]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

That is the real point here isn't it. It's not about controlling the mod.... it's about controlling the community. Play it our way or leave. I'd expect that from EA not a mod development team.

No, its like this. Play it if you like it, don't play it if you don't like it.

[=CDU=Jochen_Peip]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

Ofcourse it is. Otherwise why would you even join a server labeled as modded. You wouldn't. But instead of ignoring it your point is you can't do that on your server either.

[Real-BadSeed]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

exactly^

[eggman]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

haha lol!

I see this has the same cesspool going on here as elsewhere :p

@ DrunkenPirate: wrt PoE, that is your perspective and position on server side modding. I can understand and respect that. The PR team, like the FH team, does not share that perspective. We are going to go a little ways extra to ensure that if people want to run server side mods that these mods are:
- very restricted, to minimise the impact on how they can affect game play
- very limited modding options

We want the mod to play the way we designed it. If folks want to play that differently, they are free to do so with a password on the server.
Here is what I posted elsewhere explaining the origins of our stance on this (which we clearly articulated in March, largely because of the actions of the same people who have dragged this old dog out of the kennel yet again).

A reasonable response mate, cheers :)

We're not just doing this to be assholes. OK well it didn't start out that way heh.

We're doing it to protect the investment of thousands of hours into building PR and the PR community. I've said this before and I'll say it again so y'all can hopefully understand where we are coming from.

The BF2 mod player base is TINY and player communities are very tenuous. Look at your DCON server. Nobody plays on it. When measured by concurrent players, PR is about the same size as all other BF2 mods combined. And that's still TINY.

When we release an update to PR the game play quality always degenerates for the first couple of weeks. New people are trying the mod and old people are trying new things in the mod. After a couple of weeks the window shoppers move on, but a small percentage of them stick with the mod. And the "veterans" of previous releases start to figure out the new releases and the quality of game play will progressively elevate to (hopefully) levels higher than the previous release.

What we observed with the release of v0.5 was a proliferation of modded servers. I was totally naive at how far people would want to mod the mod. The list of changes CDU had done to PR were *extensive* and it no longer played anything like our intended design.

And like Lemmings new players flocked to it. So rather than the mod being punitive to their play style, the mod was adapted to their play style. And then with all those Lemmings, compounded by the tiny size of the BF2 mod player base, it actually became difficult to find a populated server that was not either heavily modified or short spawn times (this was more so the case in North America then in the EU or Asia).

So now we have a mod environment where our core audience and fanbase can't jump on and get a decent round going. And our forums started to fill up with inane suggestions that were uncharacteristic of the PR community. And when you'd jump in game the quality of play was atrociously bad and the vibe in the community began to get very polarized. Through no direct actions of our own our product was being manipulated in ways that alienated our core audience!

We obviously are not going to let that happen. It's simply too small a player community to fracture it like that. And that core audience has been very loyal to PR, we absolutely are not going to alienate them (and our preferences for gameplay are such that we wouldn't want to).

We're a first time mod team. We have invested a HUGE amount of energy into building the mod and the community. Aside from FH (because I don't know their numbers) PR has the largest community of any BF2 mod. We don't have any BF42 / BFV fanbase or "namesake pedigree" (a la DC / DCon) to draw upon to build the PR community. It has been entirely our own efforts since BF2 was announced.

Along the way over the last 3 years we've encountered a lot of issues that are completely "unfun" to deal with. The last time around in dealing with this issue with CDU, I pretty much lost interest in modding because I couldn't believe that people (CDU) could be so unreasonable and disrespectful toward other people (PR Dev Team) who give away their time for free for other to enjoy *as we intend it to be enjoyed*.

From a design perspective, we INTENTIONALLY make PR suck for your average jump in, run 'n' gun gamer. That's a conscious strategy in how we have built our community and our software. You will either hate it, or find it intriguing enough to adapt to how the mod requires you play to enjoy it.

We've done that bit by bit with each release... tweaked out the "gheymeyness" and injected more realism and more metaphor for realism with every release. The server side mods we have seen, particularly those done by CDU, were a MAJOR step backwards in our pursuit of our design goals and had a negative impact on our gaming community. That impact is not yours to debate or assess. We are the founding members of that community and it's our assessment that counts as y'all have not been involved with that community enough to gauge the trends and growth, so please don't try and debate whether modded servers were a good or bad thing as some CDU folks have tried in the past... our assessment is that they were a bad thing and, as the community founders, that's the assessment that counts.

I've said it elsewhere if the BF2 mod playerbase was riding at 10,000 concurrent mod players, and PR had a 10% "share" ... we probably wouldn't even care or notice modded servers. But this is NOT BF42 and DC... this is a mod playerbase environment where less than 5% of the BF2 players are playing mods at any given time.

So originally this was about protecting our design, how that design appeals to our core and loyal player base and how the evolution of that player base affects our community. But with a commitment from CDU to be disrespectful of our reasonable measures to communicate our wishes, it's evolved now into a much broader conflict and made us aware of things we need to do to protect PR and our gaming community from folks with malicious intent, because nothing about what you guys are doing here is with sincere intent.

egg

[Real-BadSeed]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

sorry dude but you have no rights over server spawn times good luck on that..

btw eggman i find your attitude toward other players and some of your terms offensive.

[=CDU=Jochen_Peip]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

Hey Egg, I didn't start this thread. I am just a player offering my opinion. We disagree, that is clear. I came here to hear what other modders had to say. Get another perspective. What I have found here gives me some hope that SSMs aren't dead. It's not reasonable to expect that a server must be PW locked if modded. Instead, your community should ignore it. That is all CDU wants from PR... to be ignored.

[solodude23]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

sorry dude but you have no rights over server spawn times good luck on that..

btw eggman i find your attitude toward other players and some of your terms offensive.

Man, I don't mind arguing with =CDU=Jochen_Peip or some other CDU guys but I just can't stand arguing with an ignorant person. Its not possible to win they they don't have the capacity in their head to understand. That has nothing to do with the argument and its not pertaining to the CDU guys, just have to say that.

[Real-BadSeed]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

well its the truth, they dont have any rights over server spawn times. Sorry that pisses you off, but thats what it is.

edit: look solo i dont ever want to play on the long spawn time servers with you either ok. But trying to demand that other people, who want to play different, cant on their own special named server makes no sense. They dont want to play with you guys either im sure.

[jilted]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

DP mentioned that he spoke for DP, not POE.

The fact is when we were modding BFV we had a negative internal reaction to the number of servers who ran our 'ported 42 maps' and thus chose not to include them in later releases.

:salute:

[solodude23]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

well its the truth, they dont have any rights over server spawn times. Sorry that pisses you off, but thats what it is.

I just said that I was not talknig about the argument. See this is what I mean, you tend not to understand anything. I could put a drill to your head and it wouldn't make it through. I don't want to talk to you anymore unless you want to PM me. I don't want to clutter this thread anymore.

DP mentioned that he spoke for DP, not POE.

The fact is when we were modding BFV we had a negative internal reaction to the number of servers who ran our 'ported 42 maps' and thus chose not to include them in later releases.

:salute:

What was the community's reaction to that?

[Real-BadSeed]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

I understand completely, your saying you want everyone to play PR ONE way or they cant play it at all and piss off, believe me i get it...

[=CDU=Jochen_Peip]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

exactly

[solodude23]

Re: Project Reality New Procedure For Server Code

Which translates to don't play if you don't like it.