Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Funny you should mention that...

One thing that annoied me in my early BF2 playing days was how brain dead simple tank to tank combat seemed to be. You see him, he sees you, you shoot, he shoots, someone dies. No real challange to aiming or manuvering.

Now I know better 'cause I adapted. I know that pre-positioning is important. Getting your shot off before he sees you is critical. Most importantly, you need some good teamwork to make those tanks truely effective.

Exactly the same thing is going on in the sky right now. People haven't figured out the neuances of the new air to air system. They don't know how to fly defensively. They aren't even used to the idea that enemy fighter = YIKES! (well, they're getting that picture rather quickly :p ).

Give this patch 1 week.
I'll bet ya by that time people will not be kavetching nearly as much and we'll be seeing who the real aces are.

If we scale the meaning "strategy" and "tactics" down to 2 jet battle. What youre proposing is "strategical" approach whereas it was "tactical".

The player with the better flight skills won. Now the player with the first sight wins. Thats not how it should be. As a player vs player game- skills and experience should matter more than anything.

("teamwork" LOL)

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

If we scale the meaning "strategy" and "tactics" down to 2 jet battle. What youre proposing is "strategical" approach whereas it was "tactical".

The player with the better flight skills won. Now the player with the first sight wins. Thats not how it should be. As a player vs player game- skills and experience should matter more than anything.

("teamwork" LOL)

a noob sees you, launches missile, you use flare, shakes off 2 of them, got 1/3 of your health taken.

now you outmanuver the noob, consistently get on his six, and kill him, what's the tactical difference here?

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

And back again- A2A- if its over in a second- its no fun. In infantry level combat theres so much you can do against a player with skills. But with 100% efficient weapons that dont rely on players timing and experience- its bad.

The people who got the most fun from dogfights (like me) are kicked in the balls.

Exactly, like I said I have very little problem with S2A, except maybe giving jets an extra set of flares, but Air to Air doesnt involve the jets groundraping, so why did it need to be changed like it did.

[IntensivCareBear]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Let's here from a true plane whore about what he thinks of the new patch and the AA. I want to know how he is fairing now that AA has been improved and what adjusments he made to be successful with the new patch?

i remember the old ccc servers, those whores should be lynched.

hopefully theyll find a new game to be whores on.

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

so wtf are you still going on about, they could make AA missiles never hit a target ever again or they could make them dead on accurate, it's about gameplay balance and now jets get to die almost (they still get more kills) as often as the infantry they bomb.

edit: heh Mack said just about the same thing I just did.

Why should jets die as often as infantry, tanks dont, nor LAVs. Jets are much more of a hassle to get into than just respawning. How pointless would this game be if it followed the "everything should live for the same amount of time" logic.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Why should jets die as often as infantry, tanks dont, nor LAVs. Jets are much more of a hassle to get into than just respawning. How pointless would this game be if it followed the "everything should live for the same amount of time" logic.

noob tanks die a lot, newbie pilots die, too.

The better pilots don't have to die that much under the current system

actually, I just got back to jets because I despise the pre 1.2 overpowered jets (not fun being in them)

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

You can outrun the oppoenent (if you are in JSF), or shake off the missile (J10)

Not if they have already gotten a lock and you have no flares, thats the whole point of the A2A being way to strong. LOCK = KILL always.

Another HUGE downside to the super-missiles is the rediculous amount of teamkills from the all the noobs that now love the AA and just fire away blindly, last time I tried flying I had 3 deaths from my own team for every one of the enemy.

[imported_KC.JADE]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Geez you guys cool down. Planewhore is an excellent player. GET OVER IT. You guys are like "omg he's gonna yell and scream like an f'ing n00b cuz that's what he iz!!! ohh pwnz0rz!!!!" He's good, and a helluva lot better than you guys.

Give him a week to adjust and he'll be whoopin your asses all over again.

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Another HUGE downside to the super-missiles is the rediculous amount of teamkills from the all the noobs that now love the AA and just fire away blindly, last time I tried flying I had 3 deaths from my own team for every one of the enemy.

it's the hate that we ground-pounders have for the 8 months of total domination and invincibility that you jet whores enjoyed that is manifesting itself.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

a noob sees you, launches missile, you use flare, shakes off 2 of them, got 1/3 of your health taken.

now you outmanuver the noob, consistently get on his six, and kill him, what's the tactical difference here?

So far Ive read its virtually impossible to shake the missiles off.
This is what players sum it up to be.

A player sees you- forces you to drop flares- regains lock- shoots 3 missiles- you die.

I dont call that much of a fun. But I AM eagerly awaiting for your dogfight guide. Im a sucker for good read.:)

it's the hate that we ground-pounders have for the 8 months of total domination and invincibility that you jet whores enjoyed that is manifesting itself.

Simple mathematics X 5-
jet kills 60 times a round- you die 2 times. How can this make you into a hatemachine unless

A) You have an anger management problem
B) You envy the score, which would make you an even bigger scorewhore.

I recall being ****ed about jets killing me.... when I was on the carrier or an air strip waiting for one.

[WarGimp]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

If we scale the meaning "strategy" and "tactics" down to 2 jet battle. What youre proposing is "strategical" approach whereas it was "tactical".

The player with the better flight skills won. Now the player with the first sight wins. Thats not how it should be. As a player vs player game- skills and experience should matter more than anything.

("teamwork" LOL)

Wow. You're proving to be a remarkable thick one.

Ok, I'll break it down to a semanticly correct level that you might be able to follow.

The strategy of Air to Air combat is to lock him up and fire before he does the same to you. There's many ways to do this, but that's about it for overall strategy.

The tactical factor is in what you do to make this happen. I like high G pullovers when I sight an enemy aircraft that's obviously not seen me yet. Just after you pass your victem, pull up hard, roll your plane and drop down on his tail. Fire, watch for flares. Once the flares are gone, open up with another couple missiles.

Evasive tactics are likewise fairly simple. Against AA, your best bet is to drop flares, then gun your afterburner and get some altitude. Against fighters, that will get ya dead tho. Breaking hard up, or playing sissors is your best bet to shake a plane at low altitude. At high altitude, pull over and head for the deck (preferably towards some friendly AA). The main things to remember is that being predictable means death and that once you drop flares, you've only got seconds to shake your 6.

Experiance don't mean squat when the rules change and you refuse to adapt.

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Simple mathematics X 5-
jet kills 60 times a round- you die 2 times. How can this make you into a hatemachine unless

A) You have an anger management problem
B) You envy the score, which would make you an even bigger scorewhore.

I recall being ****ed about jets killing me.... when I was on the carrier or an air strip waiting for one.

first of all, leave your senseless fvck!n math out of this. your fvck!n law of averages doesn't apply to every fvck!n situation. i love playing in armor and i played for over a hundred hours on the full mapcycle before switching to karkand only because i couldn't get from point A to point B without being bombed by a jet or taken out by a helicopter, only to respawn and find that the same b!tch is back after rearming himself during the 15 second respawn time. and could i do anything about it. fvck no, because the AA until now did squat.

and after reading your posts, it appears your a sucky pilot who can't come to grips with the fact that the playing field is now evened out which in turn is hurting YOUR SCORE making you also a fvckin SCOREWHORE.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Wow. You're proving to be a remarkable thick one.

Ok, I'll break it down to a semanticly correct level that you might be able to follow.

Two levels in this post. Im going to discard the first one, useless, stupid.

The strategy of Air to Air combat is to lock him up and fire before he does the same to you. There's many ways to do this, but that's about it for overall strategy.

Correct, thats what Im talking about. However, prepatch it used to be somewhat more complicated. Getting on someones 6 didnt result in you dominating the situation. So basically you could still get out of the situation as a winner. To break it down on a more simplier level- you stood a chance.

The tactical factor is in what you do to make this happen. I like high G pullovers when I sight an enemy aircraft that's obviously not seen me yet. Just after you pass your victem, pull up hard, roll your plane and drop down on his tail. Fire, watch for flares. Once the flares are gone, open up with another couple missiles.

I like this part as this is useful. This kind of stuff I always enjoy to read.

Evasive tactics are likewise fairly simple. Against AA, your best bet is to drop flares, then gun your afterburner and get some altitude. Against fighters, that will get ya dead tho. Breaking hard up, or playing sissors is your best bet to shake a plane at low altitude. At high altitude, pull over and head for the deck (preferably towards some friendly AA). The main things to remember is that being predictable means death and that once you drop flares, you've only got seconds to shake your 6.

Theres an issue. A skilled pilot can keep you locked on. Even if you make a series of complicated maneuvers. An example would be MiG vs F35B fight where MiGs slow speed gives it a better chance to hold distance and a lockon to the F-35B. Then- the lockon didnt matter much. Now- its life and death. F35 must now struggle to keep air speed leveled with MiG so it wont outrun it. This is how I see it.

Experiance don't mean squat when the rules change and you refuse to adapt.

You shouldnt change an aspect of a game just because a bunch of sorry whiners couldnt deal with it.

[MackTheKnifeAU]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

You shouldnt change an aspect of a game just because a bunch of sorry whiners couldnt deal with it.

You mean everyone that is'nt a planewhore?

You shouldnt change an aspect of a game just because a bunch of sorry whiners couldnt deal with it.

That's the WHOLE reason people wanted it changed. Because no-one could deal with it. Planes were invincible once up in the air. That is NOT what the battlefield series is about. It was changed to bring it into line with 1942\DC air, and to give people on the ground the ability to do what they should be able to, which is kill the enemy.

If you think we are whiners because of that, then too bad for you.

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Wow. You're proving to be a remarkable thick one.

Ok, I'll break it down to a semanticly correct level that you might be able to follow.

The strategy of Air to Air combat is to lock him up and fire before he does the same to you. There's many ways to do this, but that's about it for overall strategy.

The tactical factor is in what you do to make this happen. I like high G pullovers when I sight an enemy aircraft that's obviously not seen me yet. Just after you pass your victem, pull up hard, roll your plane and drop down on his tail. Fire, watch for flares. Once the flares are gone, open up with another couple missiles.

Evasive tactics are likewise fairly simple. Against AA, your best bet is to drop flares, then gun your afterburner and get some altitude. Against fighters, that will get ya dead tho. Breaking hard up, or playing sissors is your best bet to shake a plane at low altitude. At high altitude, pull over and head for the deck (preferably towards some friendly AA). The main things to remember is that being predictable means death and that once you drop flares, you've only got seconds to shake your 6.

Experiance don't mean squat when the rules change and you refuse to adapt.

While this is true, Jets, just like Tanks and LAVs (which can take a few hits and are not nearly as much first shot first kill), are so entertaining and approachable to players of all expeirience level because they aren't THAT tactical. And why should Air to Air have to be? I have NO PROBLEM with S2A missiles, but air to air dogfighting was alot of fun because it was the right combination of being able to shoot down planes you catch off guard, yet still being able to survive through one encounter with an enemy behind you( just like you can with Tanks / LAVS). Air to air has a minimal effect on jets groundraping, so it doesn't have a huge effect on balance except between other jets. S2A missiles now give ground troops an easy chance at shooting down a jet, so they really don't need any extra help. Dogfights could be changed to be more similar to their old methods and it would make the large majority of pilots much happier without having much effect on game balance. A2A missiles witha turning ability somewhere in between 1.12 and 1.2 levels (alot closer to 1.12) would allow for the most skilled pilots to have an advantage over less experienced players more comparable to tanks or lavs in the game.