Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

first of all, leave your senseless fvck!n math out of this. your fvck!n law of averages doesn't apply to every fvck!n situation. i love playing in armor and i played for over a hundred hours on the full mapcycle before switching to karkand only because i couldn't get from point A to point B without being bombed by a jet or taken out by a helicopter, only to respawn and find that the same b!tch is back after rearming himself during the 15 second respawn time. and could i do anything about it. fvck no, because the AA until now did squat.

and after reading your posts, it appears your a sucky pilot who can't come to grips with the fact that the playing field is now evened out which in turn is hurting YOUR SCORE making you also a fvckin SCOREWHORE.

Right before I took a longer break from BF2 I had an average of 30 something kills with a jet. Roughly 80% of my kills were from dogfights and helo kills. Kill number was lower when I had a good pilot I was flying against. Since day 1 when I started flying jets in BF2 I was focused on dogfights- they are less rewarding in numbers, but more rewarding for me personally. Score was never a problem. The problem was when there was an enemy jet causing trouble, I was forced to get a jet.

If you also check my scores then youd see that my main problem is A2A dogfights, which arent FUN anymore. Dogfights arent rewarding anyway.

And MajorHavoc- taking down a helo was easy as it was. You were bombed and killed because people didnt use the AAs. AAs are now more rewarding but that doesnt mean youll get an umbrella. Youll still be taken down. And I expect you come back here in a week or two with still hatred for jet or chopper domination. And the only reason for that would be the scorehunger.

You play armor in Karkand? Sums it all up too well I believe.

[MackTheKnifeAU]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

There were no dogfights pre-patch, you get behind an enemy plane and he turns left or right and loops until you get bored and go away.

Most of the time, they just avoided each other, never attacked each other and raped the ground people, and had a "race" to see who would get the gold medal.

[WarGimp]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Well, Chris, sorry for the slam, but atleast now yer talkin about things on a real level instead of just groaning. Now we can actually have a discussion.

Here's something worth yappin about:

Theres an issue. A skilled pilot can keep you locked on. Even if you make a series of complicated maneuvers. An example would be MiG vs F35B fight where MiGs slow speed gives it a better chance to hold distance and a lockon to the F-35B. Then- the lockon didnt matter much. Now- its life and death. F35 must now struggle to keep air speed leveled with MiG so it wont outrun it. This is how I see it.

Hmmm... skilled? Did ya say skilled? Yup, that's what it looks like. A skilled pilot can keep on yer tail long enough to blow ya away. I thought the big niggle was that there's no skill in dogfighting?
More than that, you've suggested that the characteristics of the planes actually matter now. You inadvertantly brought up a tactic I hadden't been thinking about.

When you're in a slower plane, the ol Maverik "I'm gonna hit the breaks and let him fly by" becomes a very legit (althought bloody risky) manuver. I'm gonna have to remember that next time I come across a lonely plane.

You shouldnt change an aspect of a game just because a bunch of sorry whiners couldnt deal with it.

Oh come on. Are you honestly trying to say that things were alright before? That's BS and everyone that isn't trying to blow smoke up other people's kesters knows it.
The same could also be inverted and used back on the outraged pilot crowd. The AA was broken before and now it's fixed (working as intended). Why on earth should it become less effective just because a bunch of whiny pilots refuse to adapt?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

There were no dogfights pre-patch, you get behind an enemy plane and he turns left or right and loops until you get bored and go away.

Most of the time, they just avoided each other, never attacked each other and raped the ground people, and had a "race" to see who would get the gold medal.

1. I had my share of those moments. Thats actually a callsign for disengagement and reengament. Nothing much to it.

2. I was heartbroken when I saw that to happen. But this wasnt always the case and this wasnt a general rule.

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

There were no dogfights pre-patch, you get behind an enemy plane and he turns left or right and loops until you get bored and go away.

Most of the time, they just avoided each other, never attacked each other and raped the ground people, and had a "race" to see who would get the gold medal.

Which is why I said some level in-between. I never argued that it needed to be changed, it just didn't need to be changed THIS much. If missiles were made just slightly better it would allow for a level of dogfighting that was similar to tank vs tank fighting, easily approachable for players of all levels, yet still very advantageous to those with more skill.

The improved S2A missiles already made it much harder to dogfight seeing as you can't fly anywhere near them while trying to evade a jet at lower altitude, theres just no need for the engagements to be THAT tactical, its not BF2's style.

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

And MajorHavoc- taking down a helo was easy as it was. You were bombed and killed because people didnt use the AAs. AAs are now more rewarding but that doesnt mean youll get an umbrella. Youll still be taken down. And I expect you come back here in a week or two with still hatred for jet or chopper domination. And the only reason for that would be the scorehunger.

You play armor in Karkand? Sums it all up too well I believe.

people didn't use the AA turrets because they did squat before 1.2 and glowed like a neon sign on an enemy pilot's HUD giving him another defenseless kill.

scorehunger? are you blind or retarded? check when i last played. i don't care for pub games anymore. and if i come back here in a week to complain, it'll only be if EA releases a hotfix to stop people like you from whining. as far as 1.2 is concerned, i'm totally satisfied. but i wouldn't be surprised to see you come here week after week whining about how "skill-less" AA has become and why, because you can't get a decent score anymore.

btw, i play armor not only on karkand but on every map and i've been playing armor from day 1 of the demo. read my earlier post carefully, i switched to karkand because of jet domination and invincibility.

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

people didn't use the AA turrets because they did squat before 1.2 and glowed like a neon sign on an enemy pilot's HUD giving him another defenseless kill.

scorehunger? are you blind or retarded? check when i last played. i don't care for pub games anymore. and if i come back here in a week to complain, it'll only be if EA releases a hotfix to stop people like you from whining. as far as 1.2 is concerned, i'm totally satisfied. but i wouldn't be surprised to see you come here week after week whining about how "skill-less" AA has become and why, because you can't get a decent score anymore.

btw, i play armor not only on karkand but on every map. read my earlier post carefully, i switched to karkand because of jet domination and invincibility.

But S2A gives those on the ground chance enough against jets, why does A2A have to be changed so drastically to? The majority of sensible people complaining in here don't have much problem with S2A, but do not like the new nature of the dogfight.

[Metasynaptic]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

I am one of those 'hot shot' pilots, that you guys call it... I have a good aviator kill rate... not 10 to 1, but I'm happy with it... and you know what?

I LOVE THIS PATCH!

I get on your six, I drop 2 sidewinders, you are a smoking hole in the sky. Stingers? bah. Be smart, and they aren't a threat. Tunguska? eww, nasty, get an Abrams to mow them for you. Other jets? Lemme at em! >:)

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

But S2A gives those on the ground chance enough against jets, why does A2A have to be changed so drastically to? The majority of sensible people complaining in here don't have much problem with S2A, but do not like the new nature of the dogfight.

i don't recall seeing any posts asking for better A2A. people have been asking for improved S2A ever since the game was released.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Well, Chris, sorry for the slam, but atleast now yer talkin about things on a real level instead of just groaning. Now we can actually have a discussion.

Here's something worth yappin about:

Hmmm... skilled? Did ya say skilled? Yup, that's what it looks like. A skilled pilot can keep on yer tail long enough to blow ya away. I thought the big niggle was that there's no skill in dogfighting?
More than that, you've suggested that the characteristics of the planes actually matter now. You inadvertantly brought up a tactic I hadden't been thinking about.

When you're in a slower plane, the ol Maverik "I'm gonna hit the breaks and let him fly by" becomes a very legit (althought bloody risky) manuver. I'm gonna have to remember that next time I come across a lonely plane.


Oh come on. Are you honestly trying to say that things were alright before? That's BS and everyone that isn't trying to blow smoke up other people's kesters knows it.
The same could also be inverted and used back on the outraged pilot crowd. The AA was broken before and now it's fixed (working as intended). Why on earth should it become less effective just because a bunch of whiny pilots refuse to adapt?

LOL, Wargimp. You didnt read my "essay" I promised to a guy? Posted it publically aswell. Dealth with mainly the differences of aircrafts and the problems with dogfights (pilots mindset, the subconscious rule to fly every plane as if it was equal to others). I did it 2 months before 1.2 patch I believe.

Im going to run by the "skill" a bit further.

Scenario 1.12. I was in the F-35B he was in the MiG. Engagement plan- lock on, make him run, wear him tired and then seek for missile planting spots and mistakes in his maneuver. This required.
+Advanced throttle management
+Use of mouselook
+Anticipation and 6th sense if you may
+Constant concentration
+Total concentration divided between throttle control and maneuvering

I had to toast his 13 second afterburner timer against my 10. I THEN could start seeking for missile use spots and mistakes in his maneuvers after he realized his afterburner is toast. All the time I had a missile lock on him so his maneuvers were all over the place and I had to follow all of them. During the time, as soon as I blocked my concentration on throttle control. I outrun him and lost him in sharp turns. Needless to say dogfights were extremely exciting and mentally rewarding if I got the kill. (Constant use of machine gun in turns was of course a must). Those were awesome. I had to WEAR him off and play with him until I got to use my missiles. I set him to play by my rules and whatnot. That was just wonderful.

Postpatch 1.2 (How I see it)

While before you HAD to deal with him for 13 seconds to start having solid missile use opportunities NOW its first shot first kill. You dont have to wear him off - you just have to keep yourself on his tail long enough to ditch the flares. Do you see what I mean?


Now to your next issue.
Im not talking things were jolly and green. But I forced mysefl to use AA for a longer period of time and I got myself some kills and hits. Mostly hits. There really was a LOT to more to it than "sitting in, clicking and watching missiles fly off". There was a certain skill level you could aquire. They werent just fire and forget weapons- they were think-fire-and-forget weapons. The problem was- they were NOT fun to use so people discarded them. They didnt try to learn how to use them. It took me a LOOOONG time to hit targets with the machine guns and I still cant hit the buggies with the jet but I know that from where I came, its a long way of learning. Now- AAs require no skill, no knowledge and no experience to take down a jet or a chopper. But that isnt that bad in the long run. The guys on the offensive will find new ways. Guys on the defensive---- same as before "AA doesnt work, EA nerf everything and beef it up" and they discard the need to learn. And then theres infantry yelling and mocking jet pilots again. This is sad.

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

i don't recall seeing any posts asking for better A2A. people have been asking for improved S2A ever since the game was released.

I am talking about people since the patch came out, who are not happy with the changes, not people who were asking for improvements for the patch.

[MackTheKnifeAU]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

LOL, Wargimp. You didnt read my "essay" I promised to a guy? Posted it publically aswell. Dealth with mainly the differences of aircrafts and the problems with dogfights (pilots mindset, the subconscious rule to fly every plane as if it was equal to others). I did it 2 months before 1.2 patch I believe.

Im going to run by the "skill" a bit further.

Scenario 1.12. I was in the F-35B he was in the MiG. Engagement plan- lock on, make him run, wear him tired and then seek for missile planting spots and mistakes in his maneuver. This required.
+Advanced throttle management
+Use of mouselook
+Anticipation and 6th sense if you may
+Constant concentration
+Total concentration divided between throttle control and maneuvering

I had to toast his 13 second afterburner timer against my 10. I THEN could start seeking for missile use spots and mistakes in his maneuvers after he realized his afterburner is toast. All the time I had a missile lock on him so his maneuvers were all over the place and I had to follow all of them. During the time, as soon as I blocked my concentration on throttle control. I outrun him and lost him in sharp turns. Needless to say dogfights were extremely exciting and mentally rewarding if I got the kill. (Constant use of machine gun in turns was of course a must). Those were awesome. I had to WEAR him off and play with him until I got to use my missiles. I set him to play by my rules and whatnot. That was just wonderful.

Postpatch 1.2 (How I see it)

Okay.

Here is what I do to avoid this:

Turn. or Loop. If you fire, I drop flares.

That's it. If you are lucky, you might get a single hit, but eventually I'll go high or do something else and get away.

[saggyb]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Okay.

Here is what I do to avoid this:

Turn. or Loop. If you fire, I drop flares.

That's it. If you are lucky, you might get a single hit, but eventually I'll go high or do something else and get away.

And what do you do if you had just used your flares to avoid a S2A and he follows you up? Considering the length of the flares reload time there is plenty of time spent in the air not having flares.

[F-1]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

Chris_Redfield why do not you stay away from personal insults. For me it means that you are frustrated and cannot prove your point. if you believe you have a valid point then offer it nicely.

I will appreciate it if you do not respond.

[WarGimp]

Re: Where are you |CCC|Planewhore?

And what do you do if you had just used your flares to avoid a S2A and he follows you up?

Ya Die.

Duh!
:p

Seriously, if you find yourself in that situation, ya screwed up.