Success with Sniping

[Arkasha]

Re: Success with Sniping

Rabid. Squirrel.

Like a dog that urinates on itself.

Buddy I kid you not, that might work on the retards you play with, but it won't work on us.

Here's a real sniper technique: use the semi-auto.

Hmm . . . we have here someone who:

1. Starts by claiming people who disagree are somehow stupid (hence the squirrel remarks)

2. Claims the tactic is "retarded," yet offers not a single reason why.

3. Offers some cryptic "better" tactic -- "semi-auto," again without offering any justification.

Somehow, I'm not convinced. Wonder why?

[MrBenis]

Re: Success with Sniping

Hmm . . . we have here someone who:

1. Starts by claiming people who disagree are somehow stupid (hence the squirrel remarks)

2. Claims the tactic is "retarded," yet offers not a single reason why.

3. Offers some cryptic "better" tactic -- "semi-auto," again without offering any justification.

Somehow, I'm not convinced. Wonder why?

You fail to be convinced because you are also retarded.

Here's your justification: the SVD has a ROF at about something like 600RPM. It's damage is 45, it doesn't unscope after shooting AND it's true recoil is not very significant. Jemme was obviously referring to using one of the bolt action rifles, where putting a few 9mm into a man might be enough to allow for a 1 hit kill. A fine tactic, if you're fighting an enemy spec ops/sniper. Fighting an armoured opponent presents two problems:

1. They have body armour. The 20 damage from a pistol is reduced to roughly 13.32 damage, and any bolt action (save the M95, which he said not to use anyway) gets its damage reduced to ~62. To kill an armoured opponent (or a medic, which is a different story) you'd need to shoot 3 pistol rounds, have them all hit, and then spend the 2 second draw time for your rifle, scope, aim and then hit with that too, in order to kill them.

2. They know they're slow. They know they have little stamina. They know their guns are inaccurate at best, and they cannot conceal or heal themselves. In short, they aren't going to sit still.

I say use the semi-auto rifles for another two reasons.

1. They have a damage of 45. It takes 4 bullets to kill an armoured soldier, but it doesnt cause SO much damage that they'll sprint for cover. A g3 causes a similar level of damage, and 2 AK rounds would do about the same. There is more chance of the target losing precious seconds looking for you with a type 88/SVD, than there is with the 2/3-your-hp-gone m24.

2. They don't unscope. The #1 reason why a sniper will die is because he can't shoot again quickly enough. In a game where cover means very little, and life is decided by attrition, you need to put another slug his way quickly. Having to unscope, then manually reload the barrel, then click and rescope can cost you the window of opportunity for that second shot. In a city map, a bolt action is just stupid. Simply stupid. You get one shot, that makes a lot of noise, and produces a large muzzle flash, then have to do the above. Meanwhile your opponent ducks behind a crate or whatever and you can't do squat. The commander spots you and before you know it, 15 other guns (including our favourite G36C) are pointing at you.

There's more to the story, but I won't elaborate on them yet. After all, I'm waiting for Jemme's response.

You won't be convinced yet, you won't understand my logic. You will post a derogatory reply, and probably attempt to shame me for my not-so-hot sniper statistics. For that is the way of the 1337 sniper.

The retard.

[PHPT]

Re: Success with Sniping

Okay, time to chime in....

1 - Bullet drop is practically nothing. I have NEVER seen the L96 miss when prone, crosshairs aimed at the head, settled, against a fairly still target. I've shot half-way across Dalian Plant, I've knocked sniper after sniper off the cranes in just about every map, and shot people barely within the view fog. If there is bullet drop, it doesn't matter enough.

I've heard but can not confirm that the M95 has a slower bullet so it may run into problems.

2 - The SVD, Type 88, and M95 have the same accuracy. Don't pick the M95 over the semi-autos if you're looking for a sharpshooter rifle. If anything, if you're aiming for head shots, the semi-autos will work BETTER because if you miss or need to hit multiple targets, you've got another shot ready to go.

3 - The M24 and L96 are slightly more accurate crouching than the others are prone.

4 - Unlike ANY other gun type, the sniper rifles will lose accuracy when you move your view. Check the data files, and try it yourself.

5 - The M95 is not great at distant sniping, it's not great for counter-sniping because you need to go prone to get a decent shot. Its best role is squad support run-and-gun, since you can incapacitate targets just by hitting them AT ALL, then they're pretty much guaranteed to lose the upcoming firefight with the rest of your squad. It's basically the kill damage assist rifle.

Knocking people down to 2 bars of health also has a tendency to make them panic. They have to be cautious to make sure they don't die just by going down a hill too fast, they're extremely fragile in a firefight, and will be generally near-useless until they get to a medic. In essence, just taking pot shots with the M95 is actually one of the best ways to soften an enemy's forces.

[Jemme101]

Re: Success with Sniping

Okay, time to chime in....

1 - Bullet drop is practically nothing. I have NEVER seen the L96 miss when prone, crosshairs aimed at the head, settled, against a fairly still target. I've shot half-way across Dalian Plant, I've knocked sniper after sniper off the cranes in just about every map, and shot people barely within the view fog. If there is bullet drop, it doesn't matter enough.

Sigh ... there is bullet drop in the game it has been confirmed by EA & DICE ...
This weekend I shot a guy who was out 453 meters, check figures here (courtesy of Black_Duck_1). I hit him with a headshot, adjusting for drop by three headheights above him. He was on the opposite hills of me in Dragon Valley on more or less the same altitude.

[Arkasha]

Re: Success with Sniping

You fail to be convinced because you are also retarded.

No, just because you provided nothing except some nasty, childish text.

Here's your justification: the SVD has a ROF at about something like 600RPM. It's damage is 45, it doesn't unscope after shooting AND it's true recoil is not very significant. Jemme was obviously referring to using one of the bolt action rifles, where putting a few 9mm into a man might be enough to allow for a 1 hit kill. A fine tactic, if you're fighting an enemy spec ops/sniper. Fighting an armoured opponent presents two problems:

1. They have body armour. The 20 damage from a pistol is reduced to roughly 13.32 damage, and any bolt action (save the M95, which he said not to use anyway) gets its damage reduced to ~62. To kill an armoured opponent (or a medic, which is a different story) you'd need to shoot 3 pistol rounds, have them all hit, and then spend the 2 second draw time for your rifle, scope, aim and then hit with that too, in order to kill them.

Your problem with the above is -- it's not true. I use the M95 almost exclusively, and my K/D is about 6.5. The tactic does work better with the M95, but it also works with the M24 (which I also like). If you can post your own stats, we can compare. Maybe Jemme can post his, too.

Here's the link to mine:
http://bf2tracker.com/bf2_usercmbstats.php?bf2id=48153671&bfmodid=0

2. They know they're slow. They know they have little stamina. They know their guns are inaccurate at best, and they cannot conceal or heal themselves. In short, they aren't going to sit still.

I say use the semi-auto rifles for another two reasons.

1. They have a damage of 45. It takes 4 bullets to kill an armoured soldier, but it doesnt cause SO much damage that they'll sprint for cover. A g3 causes a similar level of damage, and 2 AK rounds would do about the same. There is more chance of the target losing precious seconds looking for you with a type 88/SVD, than there is with the 2/3-your-hp-gone m24.

2. They don't unscope. The #1 reason why a sniper will die is because he can't shoot again quickly enough. In a game where cover means very little, and life is decided by attrition, you need to put another slug his way quickly. Having to unscope, then manually reload the barrel, then click and rescope can cost you the window of opportunity for that second shot. In a city map, a bolt action is just stupid. Simply stupid.

Wrong again. Check to see where I hang out the most -- it's Ghost Town. An urban environment, in which you claim bolt actions are "stupid." However, that's where I get the vast majority of my kills: and since my K/D is 6.5 : 1, I must be doing something right, especially since I choose pretty hectic servers (so I don't fight just new players).

You get one shot, that makes a lot of noise, and produces a large muzzle flash, then have to do the above. Meanwhile your opponent ducks behind a crate or whatever and you can't do squat. The commander spots you and before you know it, 15 other guns (including our favourite G36C) are pointing at you.

It has been my experience that the muzzle flash makes no difference at all, and my targets are usually within 150 meters. I have plenty of time to reload and fire again, even with the slow M95. Most of the targets have no idea where I am, and just try like hell to run or hop or hide. That's when the pistol comes in handy, especially since it's silenced. I can take them out after, and they don't know from where, or I can wing them before, and then use the bolt action to finish the job.

And just as a BTW? The past few months I've died mostly to choppers or to other snipers, and that not often at all.

There's more to the story, but I won't elaborate on them yet. After all, I'm waiting for Jemme's response.

You won't be convinced yet, you won't understand my logic. You will post a derogatory reply, and probably attempt to shame me for my not-so-hot sniper statistics. For that is the way of the 1337 sniper.

The retard.

You really are a piece of work, aren't you? Never mind. Your logic is poor, as I have shown. However, I have no need to post anything derogatory -- you've done enough damage to yourself.

[Jemme101]

Re: Success with Sniping

You can find my Stats via the Formitron Link in my signature. My K/D is 11,28 atm (average rate is 50 : 1 atm).

[vets.Sarge]

Re: Success with Sniping

You can find my Stats via the Formitron Link in my signature. My K/D is 11,28 atm (average rate is 50 : 1 atm).

Niet te veel opscheppen, he Jemme? :)

I can honestly say that Jemme is a good sniper. I'm starting to learn it myself too but it's too slow paced for me

[MrBenis]

Re: Success with Sniping

As I've said, if you don't have a problem getting high k:d with a bolt action, it must be because the people you play with suck.

Every man unto his own. Having said that, the last 600 sniper kills I've made have mostly been with SVD, and I have died only ~100 times.

Oh, and before you reply, check the #1 for ground mounted weapons.

What is it now? 13000 kills for like.. 400 deaths?

The people he plays with ARE RETARDS, man. Beat that, pistol snipa

[PHPT]

Re: Success with Sniping

Sigh ... there is bullet drop in the game it has been confirmed by EA & DICE ...
This weekend I shot a guy who was out 453 meters, check figures here (courtesy of Black_Duck_1). I hit him with a headshot, adjusting for drop by three headheights above him. He was on the opposite hills of me in Dragon Valley on more or less the same altitude.

I didn't say it wasn't in the game, I said it was insignificant. Most shots are not taken at such extreme range, from the top of the crane on Dalian to the coastline is about 200m, most shots past 100-150 or so become moot because of obstructions and movement. Past 250 it's hard to even make out the head. Any spots where you can cover that far of a range are also extremely visible and easy to shoot back at. It's useful maybe one shot out of a hundred.

Congrats on your 453m kill. I pity the idiot team that couldn't figure out there was a sniper at a spot as obvious as a hilltop, didn't have a commander that felt like right-clicking and selecting Spotted on the red dot way the hell out in the middle of nowhere, and let them be safe despite being visible from a few acres worth of land.

And your stats are nothing to brag about. You've got 6.78 kills per round, 0.54 kills per minute, your kill-death difference per round is 3.55, and your flag actions per round is 1.09.

Vs. Mine: 12.37, 0.84, 5.91, and 2.05.
Vs. Benis: 12.58, 0.81, 5.91, and 3.28.

In other words, your K/D is impressive. Your contribution to the outcome of the game is not.

[Arkasha]

Re: Success with Sniping

As I've said, if you don't have a problem getting high k:d with a bolt action, it must be because the people you play with suck.

All you've managed to do is scream insults at people and come up with nonsense, because you can't counter experience, and you won't admit that you just might not have all the answers. So instead of acknowledging that this might be a workable tactic, you go on and on about "retards." However, anyone who goes around generalizing about all a player's opponents, like you do in a desperate attempt to shore up your argument -- well, that sort of person is a jackass. Which is what you're being right now.

Every man unto his own. Having said that, the last 600 sniper kills I've made have mostly been with SVD, and I have died only ~100 times.

Oh, and before you reply, check the #1 for ground mounted weapons.

What is it now? 13000 kills for like.. 400 deaths?

The people he plays with ARE RETARDS, man. Beat that, pistol snipa

Bots don't count, dude . . .and if you're going to go on about your stats, then post a link.

[Jemme101]

Re: Success with Sniping

I usually dont brag at all with stats since they are something of my own to pursue into perfection. But seeing as you selectively take out a few I will make some comparisons to put everything in a better daylight for the obvious blind around here.

Kills per round, kills per minute, KDR, etc as you mentioned are OVERALL STATS. You can rake up far better stats in those categories when you use Tanks and Jets the whole time. Or in laemers terms they dont mean jack-shiot.
If you cannt see the difference between those and the Sniper Stats, which you should be looking at since we are comparing them, I will help you out.

PHPT Stats on Sniper-Kit:
Kill/Death 1305/844 , Ratio 1,55 ,
Hours played: 25,74 ,
Percentage of total hours played in all kits 18%

MrBenis Stats on Sniper-Kit:
Kill/Death 2154/1179 , Ratio 1,83 ,
Hours played: 49,80 ,
Percentage of total hours played in all kits 8%

Jemme101 Stats on Sniper-Kit:
Kill/Death 11213/3912 , Ratio 2,87 ,
Hours played: 353,12 ,
Percentage of total hours played in all kits 80%


PHPT Stats on Sniper-Rifle
Kill/Death 640/608 , Ratio 1,05 ,
Hours played: 25,74.

MrBenis Stats on Sniper-Rifle
Kill/Death 968/723 , Ratio 1,34 ,
Hours played: 34,28.

Jemme101 Stats on Sniper-Rifle
Kill/Death 7488/644 , Ratio 11,28 ,
Hours played: 140,97.


Neither one of you guys has any real experience in the class and rather play something else instead. Benis plays everything more often than the sniper class anyways, and you PHPT play AT/Supp/Engi more. They only make up 8% and 18% respectively for your total time logged in this game. I think with my 80% time spend in the class I know what I am talking about. Especially when you compare the total time of you guys 49,8 and 25,74 respectively with my own 353 hours.
My KPM is higher than yours, as is my Rifle K/D and Sniper Kit K/D.

Shots on a level field of fire dont require correction (upwards) up to 150 meters ingame. If you are on a slightly higher elevation you can make a hit somewhat over 150 meters with your aim deadcentre. Over 150 meters you will allways have to compensate in a level field of fire.

In Dalian Plant from the top of the crane (the one closest to the 2 coolers) in a straight line to the coast is over 250 meters. The central CP on the coast is at 230 something meters. I think those are in a level field so the diagonal could be more.
Your assumption on visibility is a joke btw. If you dont know where a sniper is and get dropped by a headshot you still dont know it. And by your own words beyond 250 meters its pretty much impossible to see anything without using a scope. The rest is up to good concealment and being original.

Most of my kills these days are from 250+ meters out, check --> HERE <--
(Updated list)
The reason you think you cannt hit beyond 150 meters is probably because you and benis play 24/7 SAK, a.k.a the worst sniper map in the game.
And who said anything about a Hilltop anyways? Just because you are unoriginal doesnt mean I am.

And for your information Benis, I play all over the European server network. So that must mean that all europeans are retards
In short I really couldnt care less what two obviously non-snipers have to say about me or any other accomplished sniper here. Your e-pinions are obviously flawed. Mine are based on actual gametime and backed up with Stats that matter.

[PHPT]

Re: Success with Sniping

If you cannt see the difference between those and the Sniper Stats, which you should be looking at since we are comparing them, I will help you out.

The better measure of your usefulness is ticket gap. Ticket gap is the amount you alter the score difference between the two teams, in effect, how much you help them win. Ratio is unimportant, someone who gets 25 kills and dies 10 times is more useful than someone who makes 10 kills and never dies.

PHPT Stats on Sniper-Kit:
Kill/Death 1305/844 , Ratio 1,55 ,
Hours played: 25,74 ,

K/D difference, a.k.a. ticket gap: 461
Ticket gap per hour: 17.9

MrBenis Stats on Sniper-Kit:
Kill/Death 2154/1179 , Ratio 1,83 ,
Hours played: 49,80

Ticket gap: 975
Ticket gap per hour: 19.58

Jemme101 Stats on Sniper-Kit:
Kill/Death 11213/3912 , Ratio 2,87 ,
Hours played: 353,12

Ticket gap: 7301
Ticket gap per hour: 20.7

Not impressed in the slightest.

Oh yeah, and a ton of my commander time is spent as sniper, it lets me claymore my satellite trailer for when some spec-ops thinks he's sneaky, so that further drags my play time.

EDIT -- There's a reason I left out your rifle stats too, because you only spend about half of your time as sniper with the rifle out, which raises some more interesting questions as to what you're doing. Seems the number of actual RIFLE kills you make during your time playing the sniper kit is 21.2 per hour. So you're making a lot of kills when you have the rifle out.... You just.... don't have it out very much.

The reason you think you cannt hit beyond 150 meters is probably because you and benis play 24/7 SAK, a.k.a the worst sniper map in the game.

Only because it's on heavy rotation in practically every server I'm on. I'm far more fond of Sharqi, I'd be playing SF more if there were more servers. But MOST maps don't have any real shots past 250m, unless you're hiding on top of some obvious tall object.

And don't pick out map choice when you play Ghost Town, sniping off of that skyscraper is like playing with training wheels.

[Red Devil]

Re: Success with Sniping

I hate all you guys. :p You're the ones picking me off from out of nowhere. [shakes fist, dies instantly]

[Arkasha]

Re: Success with Sniping

The better measure of your usefulness is ticket gap. Ticket gap is the amount you alter the score difference between the two teams, in effect, how much you help them win. Ratio is unimportant, someone who gets 25 kills and dies 10 times is more useful than someone who makes 10 kills and never dies.

Your measure is irrelevant when it comes to the issue, which is: is using a pistol a good idea when sniping? All that matters there is how well someone snipes, not ticket gap. In fact, "ticket gap" actually promotes something most people scream about, which is claymore spamming. I can pretty much guarantee I will kill a lot more people with the claymore than I will with the rifle, because apart from anything else I get a lot of assists with the rifle, which don't show up. Not to mention that it's hard to kill more than one person at a time with the M95 . . . But would you really rather snipers spammed claymores?

Your measure also ignores the quality of target. Which would you rather have: a sniper shooting 10 assault types, or taking out an attack helo crew? Which enemy do you think is going to do you and your mates more damage? I know which one gets other team members very happy with me, I can tell you...

And don't pick out map choice when you play Ghost Town, sniping off of that skyscraper is like playing with training wheels.

Just FYI: not all of us use that spire. In fact, I never have, in all the hours I've played there. But I have picked lots of careless people from there, and other tall buildings around.

[Jemme101]

Re: Success with Sniping

Eh gap ... whatever. I guess you ran out of valid points and are grasping at straws right now. And the fact you are 'not impressed in the slightest' leaves me cold. I am not here to impress you.

The fact I dont have the sniper rifle out much involved GhostTown and Sniping from the Lone Belltower. Not the Skyscraper. The Bell Tower is the hardest spot in the game maybe to snipe from and checking from the top floor was done with the pistol out zoomed. If there wasnt a target to snipe I kept scanning zoomed with pistol until there was one. Target acquired, quick tap of several rounds of the pistol, finish of with the Sniper Rifle (M24).

But gg in hijacking this thread, maybe you can start to comment on the distance and drop of the bullet now. Something which got you started in this very dull e-peepee contest of yours.