Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

There's no arguments to be brought to the table with regards to the soloing discussion, people who like to solo are not going to agree with the people who think it is either not a skill or lacks teamwork, and vice versa.

Arguments dont start with exchange of opinions, arguments start with people taking their opinion as a fact. In this particular case, people generalise solo helo pilots as all asshats who dont know what teamwork is, whereas they are being proven wrong factually.

I do not need your sycophantic sympathy, I just read your comments with a wry turn up of the lip as you interject into almost everyone of your replies a snipe swipe at the person who made the post, then proceed to criticize or insult anyone else who considers you, anything but right.

I post using a method where I am as civil as my opposition is. I dont believe in turning the other cheek.

It's a degree of arrogance that only works on the forums as there is little chance of a satisfactory solution being reached, personally I would like to meet you to see if this online persona reflects the true person, but that will probably never happen. This 'grenade fishing' doesn't bother me in the slightest, so please continue...

Meh, Im all manners and good will in real life, I treat forums as not an extension of real life, but a common ground for information exchange, civil or not, fierce or not.

I find this to be again, very hypocritical from your end, since youre the one who fell into personal insults unprovoked, not me. Now thats either severe arrogance or complete ignorance.

[G0ggy]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Arguments dont start with exchange of opinions, arguments start with people taking their opinion as a fact. In this particular case, people generalise solo helo pilots as all asshats who dont know what teamwork is, whereas they are being proven wrong factually.

I really couldn't care less, I prefer to be on the ground, other prefer to be in the air. An opinion if anything is, the helicopter has 2 seats.

I post using a method where I am as civil as my opposition is. I dont believe in turning the other cheek.

On past record I would disagree.

Meh, Im all manners and good will in real life, I treat forums as not an extension of real life, but a common ground for information exchange, civil or not, fierce or not.

Most people are as if you, or anyone else for that matter, spoke like they do on these forums face to face, they would wholeheartedly deserve a good slap.

I find this to be again, very hypocritical from your end, since youre the one who fell into personal insults unprovoked, not me. Now thats either severe arrogance or complete ignorance.

If you find the comment that I find you arrogant a personal insult then what can I do? That's how I find you, on these forums. There's not other way to be but personal about it, as it concerns you I'm afraid.

Unless you have something important to write between us then I suggest we let this get back OT, I, of course, understand if you would like the last word.

[waaah_wah]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

I think it's about time for marshall Scinto to start doing his job and close this thread, and hopefully the same 3 numb nuts won't start another one of the same kind. This chopper threads are getting very anoying.

No one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to read this tread.

[Verzili]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Teamwork-
co-operation between those who are working together on a task.
Cooperative effort by the members of a group or team to achieve a common goal.

to be effective on the battlefield teamwork needs cooperation
"joint operation or action; "their cooperation with us was essential for the success of our mission"

in my view proper teamwork involves players working together,if that means being killed together so be it.

solo'ing in my eyes is selfish,with the bonus it helps the team in certain situation.

but..

it would be more fair for average players to be given a chance to gun despite there skill level compared to a good solo pilot.

ok so the armor may not get taken out as fast ect,but it dose not mean the other 30 players on the server cant manage to get together and take it out.
its only 2 rockets to the tracks,or 1 tv missile.

soloers appear to think with out them the rest of us could not manage to deal with the other threats..mmm



when leading my squad on the ground on a air map,if a enemy chopper gets close i will not hesitate to fire m95 in to it,if it means taking the sent of my squad,i don't mind being killed if they get to stay alive..that is teamwork.


ok soloing is effective and a skill that takes time to master,but its still a exploit in the sense of how its working,ok its a game but still..

they nerfed the black hawk,but left seat switching?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Teamwork-
co-operation between those who are working together on a task.
Cooperative effort by the members of a group or team to achieve a common goal.

Right, without distance limitations, restrictions or set parametres. A choppers task is to KILL. And that it does. A choppers task is to provide anti-vehicular or anti-infantry close in air support, and that it does. If a chopper pilot makes a conscious choice to help a squad to capture a flag, the pilot is doing teamwork. If a chopper pilot makes a conscious choice to kill an armor YOU, as a SNIPER cannot take out, for you, hes doing teamwork. Its all about the choices a player makes.

to be effective on the battlefield teamwork needs cooperation
"joint operation or action; "their cooperation with us was essential for the success of our mission"

Tell me then, what is a chopper pilot doing, by taking out all armor on the map then? Isnt it providing a safer grounds for the infantry to cap flags and kill the enemey, thus supporting them? And look at it from another angle. Squads usually dont cooperate with each other, so theres no teamwork, at least using your logic.

in my view proper teamwork involves players working together,if that means being killed together so be it.

Except that in real life, people work as a team to stay alive. If you do not benefit from teamwork, its an unnecessary burden and not a noble aspect of the game. If youre a teamworker that wont get the job done, but you die a lot, I would rather play alone because I will get the job done.

solo'ing in my eyes is selfish,with the bonus it helps the team in certain situation.

It helps the team all the time. Every time a tank is taken out, some poor infantry has bought himself an extra 30 seconds of living time.

it would be more fair for average players to be given a chance to gun despite there skill level compared to a good solo pilot.

So you think it would be fair to fly choppers just for the sole purpose of bringing everyone else but yourself the joy and fun of playing a videogame? People play to entertain themselves, youre asking for someone to sacrifice their own fun so that an average (less than efficient) player would get his 3 minutes of fun? How about MY fun? How many hours do I have to fly around deadbeats until I get to actually do my own flying? Youre a sniper on the ground, its so easy for you to preach what you dont practice.

ok so the armor may not get taken out as fast ect,but it dose not mean the other 30 players on the server cant manage to get together and take it out.
its only 2 rockets to the tracks,or 1 tv missile.

Except that the chopper does it faster, more efficiently and is giving you a chance to waste your attention on capturing flags, thus enabling your team to have more spawnpoints, more armor, and more choices to win the game. A chopper singlehandedly takes the burden off your shoulders. A bad chopper crew is just scoring a few kills without being a significant help to the team.
soloers appear to think with out them the rest of us could not manage to deal with the other threats..mmm

when leading my squad on the ground on a air map,if a enemy chopper gets close i will not hesitate to fire m95 in to it,if it means taking the sent of my squad,i don't mind being killed if they get to stay alive..that is teamwork.

Thats not teamwork, thats selfsacrifice in a situation where you could very well stay alive. Teamwork is all about the RESULT, and not about the prettyness of the word. Ask a person who has served in military, why is teamwork important.

they nerfed the black hawk,but left seat switching?

Its DICEs way of saying that its technically not an exploit.

[waaah_wah]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Considering the fact that killing armor and other choppers, aswell as killing infantry is all a chopper can do, Id say hes cooperating with the team in its purest sense. Unless you like to fly the chopper around on the top of the head of your squadleader, get killed and call yourself a teamworker. CAS, close in air support, thats what a chopper does.

Where did i say that you have to be close to eachother to be doing teamwork?

Then what would be teamwork? What is teamwork, if its not killing armor, which is what for the chopper was designed for?

This is your own words: Teamwork is a group of people who are working together to achieve a common goal. Unless you have smoked to much weed and see multiple chopters in the air, theres no group of ppl involved when you fly a chopter by yourself.

Is teamwork flying around with another pilot?

Yes!

Whom does this teamwork benefit? Whom does this sub-par perfomance benefit?

I dont know... Your team perhaps?

Teamwork is a group of people who are working together to achieve a common goal. A chopper, as a vehicle, is a close in air support vehicle which is designed to KILL and KILL ONLY.

Yes a chopter is designed to kill. Whats your point?

It doesnt matter whos operating it, because if its killing, its doing its job. And if its coincidentally taking care of armor that a squad has a problem with, it has just cooperated with a squad in aiding them against a superior vehicle.

A soloer does help ppl, i never said that he didnt.

Please, your vision of teamwork has already been proven. Its a group of 6 newbies getting killed by artillery because they dont know what teamwork is beyond moving close together in an open field.

No, actually thats not what i said. Again you talk about teamwork using words "newbies" and so on. Where have i said that you HAVE to move together in order to be a teamplayer? A squad that is comunicating and cooperating will always be more efficient than a squad of lone wolfs. You actually said that yourself

If a pilot has a negative KDR, hes a newbie. How can a newbie benefit the team?

By having a positive K/D ratio and not being an assbag?

He cant.

^^

In physics, if theres no motion, theres no work being done. If theres no result, theres no effect. A player with a positive KDR is benefiting his team because hes taking more tickets than hes giving back.

That doesnt make him a teamplayer

Unless you are a retard, which is unfortunately what youve proven yourself to be, the game is all about tickets.

The game is actually all about fun.

The team which loses all of its tickets, loses. In such terms, by the very definition.

Again, you only care about that for maximum 10 sec

Everyone whos playing to take away opppsitions tickets, is a teamplayer. Everyone who has a positive KDR at doing so, is an efficient teamplayer.

Your logic is seriously f*ed up mate.

So youre saying that when a pilot takes care of a tank that has pinned you down, he hasnt benefitted you, helped you in any way? Thats some good thinking.

He kills a tank coz he wants the kill, not to help me ffs.

If nobody cares about winning, then everyone cares about their own personal fun. Why the **** are you playing then, because youre constantly making an impression that youre worth **** on the field. We know how much youre worth, no need to put people down who actually are personally responsible for the teams losses or wins. Youre cannon fodder.

And your a ***** that needs to hide in a chopter or jet in order to kill ppl come down on the ground mate.

Or maybe because youre a statwhore and are worried about your KDR. Maybe the chopper pilots too do not want to get killed? Youre a hypocritical *******.

Yeah i REALLY care about my stats! In fact i play PR that doesnt have stats (unless you download ABR wich i havent) coz im only thinking about my K/d ratio

Why does the chopper pilot have to hinder his own perfomance and potential in killing? If hes doing better work at killing and staying alive (thus benefiting his team more), why should he fly you around, you- who can hit a broadside of a barn at 6 foot distance? Its already established that a choppers job is to kill. The more efficient it is at it, the more it benefits the team.

An equally skilled two man crew will beat a soloer any day anytime. Thats a fact

And if your actions end with no result, you are not a teamplayer. Unless you forgot what teamplay is about- its about increasing the result of ones actions by grouping together.

I think your the one here who forgot what teamplay is about.

Statistics show that 2 men working as a team, beat 5 people who are alone. Do people group up for the reason of safety and efficiency, or because its cool?

Both

So if people group up with other people who ENDANGER their safety and efficiency, wouldnt they have to find another teammate? Or possinly, with no other option, go alone?

Then you find anew server. Or go and play SP

You still havent proven to me in any way or form, how a soloer is a teamworker

Hes not

...and how does a pilot benefit from a gunner. How does a team benefit from a pair.

If you reallt think that a two man crew wont beat a soloer your head is messed up.

Im sorry, I play airsoft, paintball, soccer. All three of them are direct team based competitive games with extremely heavy reliance on teamwork. You can play airsoft and paintball the whole round without saying a word if the situation can afford such luxury. I am not the retard who thinks that regardless off the result, using a microphone enhances your perfomance as a teamplayer. Its the actions you take, not the communications method you use.

You dont HAVE to use VOIP in order to communicate, but its a whole lot easier with it.

BF2 has a commo rose, its more than enough to get the basics fulfilled.

What if basics isnt good enough?

SWAT4 has a pic-in-pic system, which is even better. Its actually a proven fact that the less things you concentrate on, the better you perform. So in action, only an idiot would have the time to talk.

Only an idiot would not be able to talk.

The best BF2 player I knew personally, never used a mic until we started playing with him, and he openly admitted that it was a distraction. The best squads (most scoring and the ones that win the game) use mic as little as possible, and rely on visuals more, spotting.

Again, if you cant talk and shoot at the same time, something is wrong with you.

Audio communication enhances the flow of information, it dies NOT make you a teamplayer by default. Please prove me how it does.

Jesus Christ... If your using VOIP to communicate how the hell can you not be a teamplayer??

I dont need to talk to other people over cyberspace because Ive got enough friends to talk to.

I somehow doubt that:laugh:

Youre 17, I can say with full confidence that youre still with your parents.

Your point is?

I have a job, go to college and live in my own appartment.

No you live in your moms basement and the reason you dont use VOIP is so ppl wont hear you mom shouting "Christopher! Panecakes are ready!" in the backround

I play game to have fun, not to talk to 17 year olds whos balls havent dropped yet and squeal like little girls.

And i dont play the game to think that im "Uber 1337" and automatically have the right to take a chopter whenever i feel for it.

I find it distracting and annoying, endangering my potential as a teamplayer.

Haha:laugh::laugh::laugh:

FUN and TEAMWORK do not go hand by hand.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:That goes into my sig. Didnt you say that SWAT4 has a lot of teamwork and is fun to play? Have you just been cauth contradicting yourself? Oh no...

How many ppl play ArmA and PR? ALOT. I think that proves that fun and teamwork really go hand in hand.

As a matter of fact, teamwork by its very definition is hard. Often unfun.

Yeah i really get EXHAUSTED after a round of PR. WTF is so hard with teamwork?

How many lonewolves you see in BF2? Plenty, right? Its easier, and more fun to rely on your own set of skills, than to constantly support your fellow man and limit your own potential.

Jesus... Your a bit selfish arent you?

I bet youll rush in calling me an idiot because teamwork is more fun.

Teamwork IS more fun. But maybe not for statswhores like some ppl

Statistics dont like. BF2 game, heavily relied on squad system and has an open common goal, has a lot more lonewolves than desired. Stats dont like.

And your point is...?

If it hinders my perfomance as a player, and it does, I shoot first and talk when its safe.

Statswhore anyone?

Only an idiot would chatter and chatter to no end thinking its cool. All you do is to tell the squad where to go, ask for a kit/ammo/medpack if necessary and spot targets along with brief info about the target. Each message should take as little as 1-3 seconds. KISS method is prefered in any kind of communication in battle. Because its distracting and endangering the soldier. Reality doesnt lie.

Again, communication so easier with VOIP

How exactly. Youre pulling this out of your *** without backing it up. Start explaining.

Its a whole lot easier to just say "Move out to D5 for a rally point and then attack the flag from D6" than starting to type and using move and attack markers.

Or "Thow your smokes across the street, you and you, stay here and just fire into the smoke while me and the rest of the squad will go to north alley and flank". How can you explain that without VOIP? and how long would it take if you start typing?



Except that all I need to do is to use command: "With you.", and he knows I have his picture in my screen, and Im watching everything he sees. This means that he can concentrate on shooting, and I can concentrate on flanking. SWAT4 offers excellent sound, I can hear what the opponent does without any info given. What grenade he pulls out, what pin he pulls out of the grenade, what ammo hes using and what weapon hes firing. SWAT4 never needed VOIP to be great at offering deep teamwork. Clan battles of course, theres TS and Vent, but thats a given as they typically exchange more info.

So there you go, VOIP/TS/VT do offer advantages in communication. Or why do you think ppl are using it?

I said VOIP makes info exchange easier, not ease the game, *******.

Is it makes info exchange easier it will also ease the game.

You can use VOIP to exchange information and still not do any teamwork. You can play with 6 solo guys and all they need to do is to tell you **** without you cooperating with them.

How often do you see that happening? I have never ever seen a lone wolf use VOIP.

How does VOIP automatically make a squad work as a team, or how does teamwork need VOIP to exist. Please enlighten me, oh General Patton.

You can have teamwork without VOIP, but for the 56546w45654 time, things get easier when you use it.

Having a positive KDR makes you an efficient player, if that positive KDR is shown in a game where killing enemy is the main goal, you are working towards a common goal thus making you a teamplayer by default. Logic.

Killing ppl doesnt make you a teamplayer by default. Accept that

Moving together, in a tight bunch in BF2 is certain death. Ever heard of "formations"? Or how to cross an opening? Leapfrogging? Moving together is "easy", but dangerous. Youve already admitted that if you die together its teamwork. People work as a team to LIVE and not to DIE.

Who the f*ck said that you team up with ppl to die? And who the f*ck said that you have to move in tight formation so a guy with a SRAW will kill the whole squad? Again you are talking about teamwork as if its a bad thing and will only get you killed. How is staying togerther with ppl a sertain death? I would like you to take out 6 pp sticking togerwhen and comunicatingl all by yourself. And with no vehicals in the picture

Then why the **** did you pring it up?

Coz i felt like it

I want to get into action because Im good enough as a player to bring back at least some results before I get capped. Young, inexperienced players with attitude and no show of skill get themselves and me killed. Theres no contradiction here, youre just hurt because I would redline you in an instant because thats exactly which category you fall into. No knowledge, no skill, no tolerance and no willingness to learn. Walking 1 minute isnt a gamekiller. Tell me where I said it was.

Dont make me dig up that quote again. You said that you redline ppl for their age and not their skill.

Already have, I stuck to SWAT4 and hilariously, to BF2.

Then i feel sorry for you

Yup, action is entertainment and thats why I play my games.

So its okay when your eager to get to action but not when a guy under 18 is?


Did I say that joystick is funner than mouse? Did I say it as a fact? I said its fun to fly with a stick. I even uderlined the fact that joystick flies differently than a mouse and that players who buy a stick want to experience that game. Dont forget, its you who are telling people its a waste of money based on your perfomance in a J10 in Wake Island.

Look IMO you can fly just as good with a stick or M/KB. And IMO bying a stick is a waste.

Please tell me how is "DAMN FUN" instantly discarding the fun factor from flying with a mouse, or how, based on my sentence, did I say that joystick is more or less fun than a mouse?

Well, if its just as fun to fly with a mouse that it is with a stick, why did you buy a stick?

I gave an opinion on flight with a stick, I didnt compare it to a mouse like you do. If you want to use arguments and counterarguments in a debate, and look for inconsistencies and contradictions, youre making yourself look like a ******* for using lies and fabrications.

Where have i lied or fabricated anything here? And if i have you have done it just as much

If you made a poll right now, asking how many converts are happy with their change, you would get an astonishing number.

Lets start a poll "Is a soloer a teamplayer?" instead.

In pure and simple statistics, there are more "top grade" pilots with a stick, than with a mouse&KB or KB only. I know from a top grade pilot named _Serhend_ (who has killed N2K for example), that hes unhappy with his KB only configuration and because its hindering his perfomance as a pilot, he cannot take out the top pilots of BF2 (Rabbit.v2 for example). Off the top of my head, I can name 3 pilots I know that dont use a joystick and can be considered "great pilots", the list consisting of people who use a stick, is greater, far greater. I started with KBonly, then MKB and ended up with a stick. The improvement was vast.

DeltaSniper0555, great pilot and using M/KB

You dont need a stick to be a great pilot,

Thats what im saying

...you need a stick if youre looking for a more natural flight feel, more accessibility in keys, diversity in your style and efficiency and better results in multiple maneuvering.

Everything you can do with a stick ban be done with m/KB

Please quote me on where I said "I redline people who are under 18 of age and not because they suck". Please go ahead and quote me.

For the 2nd time:

Whenever I took off with a copilot, I first took them for a spin, on their first obvious sign of lack of experience, I would redline them. If they showed basic skills or at least common sense, I would ask them for their age. If they were below 18, I would redline them.

You say that you would redline them for their age and not their skills. And that my friend, is stupidity.


Hitler actually gave a fairly throughal explanation to why he was exterminating jews. He was also not only exterminating jews, but gipsies and people of other nations, mentally or physically challenged, black people and old people. I suggest you get your history and facts straight. And scroll back and find the reason why I redline people of younger age.

my point still stands, he DID exterminate jews an thats what i said. i didnt say that he didnt exterminate other races. Learn to read mate

Dont be a hypocrite, remember who started with the insults. You officially gave me a green light to call you whatever I please.

And dont tell me that i didnt have a reason to call you an idiot for redlining ppl for their age and not their skill.

How about "helicopters function is to provide close in air support in form of killing armor and infantry"?

Thats right. But ppl who fly a chopter usually do it for their K/D ratio and not for helping out their team.

Please tell me how a soloer is not a teamworker, and how a chopper duo of less perfomance, is?

Jesus... A soloer is not a teamworker coz hes not communicating or cooperating with the rest of his team. A two man crew is comunicating and cooperating, hence they are teamworkers.

An idiot would be someone who is limited by his views, experience, age or mental capacity. In fact, once a study was conducted asking people "what is an idiot, who is an idiot" and nobody, noone had a correct answer. My choices to be an asshat make me a bad person. Your obvious lack of experience and intellect technically make you a *******.

Can you please tell me, why am i an idiot? I would love to hear the answer.

Im not caught contradicting myself, I may have been caught by not being as throughal as your dad was with you last night, but Im not a hypocrite.

Nooo, not at all

So what gives you the right to insult me, even though I didnt do anything to affect you? Youre a hypocritical dumb ****. Your obvious lacks in comprehension skills are probably to blame for why you still dont get the reasons why I choose to redline a player of young age,

You told me why you choose to redline ppl of younger age. Just coz their younger. And Hitler wanted to exterminate jews just coz they are jews. Simple as that. And that my friend, makes both you and Hitler idiots.

So youre saying you are retaded because you are jewish? I dont see the logic behind it?

Im sure that you and your buddy from Germany see the logic in that

Hence why Im stepping and youre stepped on :)

Erm.. if you think so then good for you:P

If I was a phsychologist, I would say your bitterness comes from your experience and inability to move on after being redlined for performing poorly in a videogame. Im sure if more WoW addicts emerge, a clinic will be built near you to help you with your problem. Until then, best of luck.

And if i was one, i would say that you are a retard coz your mommy didnt hug you enough

This discussion is really just going in circles...

[L3adcannon]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

I pretty much agree with everything Chris said.
But sadly, I have never seen a helpful soloer or 2 manned (can you say 2 manned in english?) chopper who helps infantry, on request or without. Many times I`ve seen choppers hunting tanks, APCs and other choppers while that one armor prick is raping infantry like no tomorrow. That`s why I think all armor, heli, jet whores are c*nts.
:)

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Where did i say that you have to be close to eachother to be doing teamwork?

Your posts in promoting PR, the inability to accept soloer as a teamworker because hes obviously further away from you. Im just connecting the dots.

This is your own words: Teamwork is a group of people who are working together to achieve a common goal. Unless you have smoked to much weed and see multiple chopters in the air, theres no group of ppl involved when you fly a chopter by yourself.

There doesnt have to be a group of people in the air to do teamwork. The soloer is working with the infantry below him, or commander hidden in the bushes. The soloer could very well be in a squad, hes taking up one spot out of 6 and is giving his mates all the support they need. You have a lack of vision, teamwork is not linear, it can be multidimensional. Every choice a soloer does to help a grunt to cap that flag, points towards cooperation towards a common goal. That is teamwork.

Is teamwork flying around with another pilot?

Yes!

Please tell me how do you define teamwork that way? I fly with a gunner who doesnt use me lining him up. I fly with a pilot who doesnt line me up. Please show me where the teamwork is? Inefficiency is not teamwork. People group up as a team to increase the chances of survival or increase their efficiency. If teamwork cannot provide that, its a hindering process.

Whom does this teamwork benefit? Whom does this sub-par perfomance benefit?

I dont know... Your team perhaps?

LOL! Are you mentally challenged? How does a chopper screws SUB PAR perfomance benefit the team (more than a soloers on par perfomance?)? Im dieing to see the logic here.

Yes a chopter is designed to kill. Whats your point?

My point is simple. Since a chopper cannot do anything than killing, then it doesnt matter how its manned, what matters is how its being used. If its being used in an inefficient way, its not benefiting the team. If its used in an efficient way, it benefits the team. If it benefits the team, doing tasks appointed to it, its doing teamwork. Regardless of how many people are in it.

A soloer does help ppl, i never said that he didnt.

If you help people to reach a common goal, youre a teamworker. Thanks for finally agreeing with me, even though Ive only been saying that for the last 3 pages. Moron.

No, actually thats not what i said. Again you talk about teamwork using words "newbies" and so on. Where have i said that you HAVE to move together in order to be a teamplayer? A squad that is comunicating and cooperating will always be more efficient than a squad of lone wolfs. You actually said that yourself

A squad that is cooperating and communcating together will always be more efficient? I thought I said a squad that is "cooperating together" only. Youre the one throwing "communcations" in. I said that if skill and situation allows for it, communcation should be held to the upmost minimum. A squad moves in the tactically best formation which enables it to be efficient all the way through. Newbies preaching teamwork just run in packs.

By having a positive K/D ratio and not being an assbag?

How exactly is ingame attitude and perfomance related to each other?

He cant.

That doesnt make him a teamplayer

Please explain to me in throughal fashion, how doesnt it make him a teamplayer in BF2 terms?

The game is actually all about fun.

So if a soloer has more fun soloing, and you accept its all about fun, you can shut up now?

Again, you only care about that for maximum 10 sec

But people are willing to work to care for 10 seconds. In real life, people form a team to increase their efficiency and decrease their inefficiency. In one form or the other, this transfers into a game. The goal is to win.

Your logic is seriously f*ed up mate.

You just dont get the simple logic. Whats Battlefield 2 main goal in a round?

He kills a tank coz he wants the kill, not to help me ffs.

How do you know? Do you pull your assumption out of your *** or do you know for a fact that the pilot doesnt want to help you? Im a pilot, I respond to each "I need backup" call in reasonable range. I play for the team. Im sure if Sloi sees a spotted tank, he would take it out as soon as he can.

And your a ***** that needs to hide in a chopter or jet in order to kill ppl come down on the ground mate.

I have a ~2:1 KDR on the ground, that means I can take out 2 enemies before I die. With an assault rifle. Your stats show less than 1:1. In all terms, youre a terrible asset to the team. Well get to your stats later.

Yeah i REALLY care about my stats! In fact i play PR that doesnt have stats (unless you download ABR wich i havent) coz im only thinking about my K/d ratio

You play Wake, use a Sniper kit mostly and fly jets out of all vehicles the most. A sniper who flies a jet in Wake, we all know that he doesnt care about stats and is a great teamplayer.

An equally skilled two man crew will beat a soloer any day anytime. Thats a fact

Considering the fact that you are struggling to reach a 1:1 KDR in choppers, your "fact" can easily be torn apart. Consider this, in order to FIND, from a PUBLIC SERVER, a pilot/copilot of your own skill level, one has to fly newbies around for a long time before God shows his mercy. Until a pilot finds that good copilot, he plays in the most efficient manner he can, which means- he solo´s. And a proven fact is that unless the equally skilled chopper duo has had extensive practice together, they will fail against a soloer of the same skill. A soloer can make all the choices and decisons himself.

I think your the one here who forgot what teamplay is about.

I think that your lack of arguments is becoming less and less amusing.

Both

ROFL! You are a moron, ask someone who has served in the army or worked in the office- why people group up.

But then, youre 17, of course the only reason behind ones actions you see as either "person being an asshat" or "person being cool".

Then you find anew server. Or go and play SP

Why did you move to PR? Why didnt you just switch to a new server or played in SP, if you wanted teamwork? Youre a hypocritical piece of dung, practice what you preach please.

Hes not

Prove it.

If you reallt think that a two man crew wont beat a soloer your head is messed up.

Check your stats. Your history shows that you know jack**** about how a helo operates.

You dont HAVE to use VOIP in order to communicate, but its a whole lot easier with it.

The easiest would be hand signals and experience playing together. The vocal communcation is the "fastest". Youre telling me VOIP is teamwork. So if you dont have to use VOIP, you basically choose not to do teamwork? You dont make any sense.

What if basics isnt good enough?

Elaborate.

Only an idiot would not be able to talk.

A regular pubber in SWAT4 would tear you apart without saying a single word and make you into an idiot and a victim he would teabag. Thats the "idiot" that uses concetration capacity on tearing you apart, rather than talking unecessary BS on the VOIP.

Again, if you cant talk and shoot at the same time, something is wrong with you.

Quote me on where I said "I cants hoot and talk at the same time". For example, your KDR is less than 1:1, which means youre a worthless player. My KDR is 2:1, which means that I am less worthless than you. I have more chances of coming out from a firefight than you do. Needless to say, I know more about how to shoot and kill in a game, than you do.

Jesus Christ... If your using VOIP to communicate how the hell can you not be a teamplayer??

By not making choices that would benefit the team, dip****.

I somehow doubt that:laugh:

Yeah, I guess you got a lot of friends by talking to them over VOIP, probably asked your parents for money to visit 45 year old Mr Jackson in another state, because hes your "pal".

Your point is?

My point is that if youre going to use the old "u live in a basemunt!" insult, see to it that it doesnt backfire on you.

No you live in your moms basement and the reason you dont use VOIP is so ppl wont hear you mom shouting "Christopher! Panecakes are ready!" in the backround

More "moms basement jokes" coming from a 17 year old kid living with his parents. One of which happens to be a mom. Christopher would mean a name in an English speaking country. Ill give you a cookie if you guess if Im English or not.

And i dont play the game to think that im "Uber 1337" and automatically have the right to take a chopter whenever i feel for it.

WTF are you talking about! You play Wake Island, out of your 200 hours youve flown jets for 80! And you do so while you play as a SNIPER. Im fairly confident that you equip and M95 while doing so, too. Oh and as for being an awesome VOIP using teamworker- your squad time totals to about 50% of your whole play time. A quick look at my last account reveals that out of my whole playtime, I have been in a squad about 45% of the time! OMG!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:That goes into my sig. Didnt you say that SWAT4 has a lot of teamwork and is fun to play? Have you just been cauth contradicting yourself? Oh no...

"mutually exclusive" would be the term. Only a moron would see a contradiction there.

Yeah i really get EXHAUSTED after a round of PR. WTF is so hard with teamwork?

Constant choices that restrict your freedom as a player.

Jesus... Your a bit selfish arent you?

Explain exactly how am I being selfish?

Teamwork IS more fun. But maybe not for statswhores like some ppl

Are you telling me that as a fact, that teamwork is more fun? Statistics dont lie. Most people in BF2 spend over a HALF of their total play time playing as lonewolves. In most servers, you struggle to find one fully functional squad. I think that the community has spoken and you pulling "facts" out of your ***, have been set straight... or not.

Statistics dont lie. BF2 game, heavily relied on squad system and has an open common goal, has a lot more lonewolves than desired. Stats dont lie.
And your point is...?

Get that birdbrain working. If people dont like to work as a team in BF2, that means that its not as fun as lonewolfing. Thats a statistical fact for you.

Statswhore anyone?

Did we forget your less than 1:1 KDR?

Again, communication so easier with VOIP

The easiest way of communcating is the Commo rose. "Enemy spotted" and its correct location on the minimap take 0.5 seconds of ones time. Trying to explain where the enemy is on VOIP takes seconds more. VOIP is not easier, its just faster.

Its a whole lot easier to just say "Move out to D5 for a rally point and then attack the flag from D6" than starting to type and using move and attack markers.

Or "Thow your smokes across the street, you and you, stay here and just fire into the smoke while me and the rest of the squad will go to north alley and flank". How can you explain that without VOIP? and how long would it take if you start typing?

Who needs typing? Place the order marker and if your squad is competent enough, they will throw smoke grenades without you telling them. If its crossing a street in a potentially hasardous area, and you have a squad of competent people, grenade will be thrown regardless of you saying it. And attacking a flag or an objective relies on everyones personal SKILL LEVEL. You dont need to tell someone to attack from the East. You set a rally point and upon an attack everyone takes the best tactical approach. If you want to approach using complicated strats, sure, VOIP is great, but in a videogame, everyone has to have some basic skills to come up with their best approach to an objective. If youre skilless, youre dead anyway, VOIP or not. Judging by your stats which you so generally showed us all, youre the first to die.

So there you go, VOIP/TS/VT do offer advantages in communication. Or why do you think ppl are using it?

Hold on, did you even read that part of did you once again, pull that out of your ass?

Is it makes info exchange easier it will also ease the game.

Explain, how does it make the game easier?

You can have teamwork without VOIP, but for the 56546w45654 time, things get easier when you use it.

How does the game get easier with VOIP?

Killing ppl doesnt make you a teamplayer by default. Accept that

Explain, what makes a player a teamplayer. And dont use my definition. Its obviously written using common sense and logic and would be too hard for yout o grasp. Use your own definition. Im curious.

Who the f*ck said that you team up with ppl to die? And who the f*ck said that you have to move in tight formation so a guy with a SRAW will kill the whole squad? Again you are talking about teamwork as if its a bad thing and will only get you killed. How is staying togerther with ppl a sertain death? I would like you to take out 6 pp sticking togerwhen and comunicatingl all by yourself. And with no vehicals in the picture

UAV + grenade.

Dont make me dig up that quote again. You said that you redline ppl for their age and not their skill.

Quote me on where I specifically said that I "teamkill people because of their age and not their skill". Go ahead.

So its okay when your eager to get to action but not when a guy under 18 is?

When I obviously lacked in skill, I went and practiced. Someone who obviously has no skill and is too young to take my advice seriously, deserves no chances.

Look IMO you can fly just as good with a stick or M/KB. And IMO bying a stick is a waste.

You have a 5:1 KDR in jets, you play WAKE mostly. Id say you are as competent in your area as you are with the ladies. Stats and facts dont lie.

Well, if its just as fun to fly with a mouse that it is with a stick, why did you buy a stick?

It was not as fun for me personally. You see, you speak your opinion as a fact, which it isnt.

Where have i lied or fabricated anything here? And if i have you have done it just as much

Im sure your "conclusions" and "facts" that I constantly wanted you to prove, are all simply undeniable proven facts.

Lets start a poll "Is a soloer a teamplayer?" instead.

Im willing to bet that people like you, who have helo stats with 1:1 KDR and had no idea how to fly nor operate it efficiently, would say NO.

DeltaSniper0555, great pilot and using M/KB

Im sure youve seen the movie "DogfighteR". Im talking about people who belong to the upmost top of the pilot group. And considering your pilots stats I would doubt you knew anyone of those.

Everything you can do with a stick ban be done with m/KB

Can you make a consistent roll without ever lifting your hand?

Originally Posted by Chris_Redfield
Whenever I took off with a copilot, I first took them for a spin, on their first obvious sign of lack of experience, I would redline them. If they showed basic skills or at least common sense, I would ask them for their age. If they were below 18, I would redline them.

You say that you would redline them for their age and not their skills. And that my friend, is stupidity.

As I said, quote me on where I said "I would redline people because they are below 18 and not because of their skill."

my point still stands, he DID exterminate jews an thats what i said. i didnt say that he didnt exterminate other races. Learn to read mate

*******, learn to read- I said Hitler has specific reasons why he exterminated jewish people. A lot of others fell into the same category.

And dont tell me that i didnt have a reason to call you an idiot for redlining ppl for their age and not their skill.

You have nearly 500 teamkills on your list on your stats. You are an idiot. It doesnt matter if youve teamkilled me or not, youre still an idiot.

Thats right. But ppl who fly a chopter usually do it for their K/D ratio and not for helping out their team.

LOL, youre such a moron. If a chopper can ONLY kill, whatever it does, whoever it does for, its just killing, the end result is the same regardless of their intentions.

Jesus... A soloer is not a teamworker coz hes not communicating or cooperating with the rest of his team. A two man crew is comunicating and cooperating, hence they are teamworkers.

A two man team is comunicating only with each other and cooperating only with each other yet they are providing the SAME service for the team. There is virtually NO difference between a soloer and a team of 2. Again, are pulling this out from your ***. A soloer is responding to spotted threats, thus hes responding to his teams needs thus hes cooperating with the team. You need to try harder.

Can you please tell me, why am i an idiot? I would love to hear the answer.

You lack in experience both in teamwork, helicopter piloting and gameplay in general, you are then making claims based on your own limited experience that is contradicting with what goes really on in general practice. You are claiming your opinion to be the truth without any arguments to back it up.

You told me why you choose to redline ppl of younger age. Just coz their younger. And Hitler wanted to exterminate jews just coz they are jews. Simple as that. And that my friend, makes both you and Hitler idiots.

Hitler was a genius. You are the idiot here. Ive explained you twice why I redline young players. You still cant accept the explanation, if you cant accept a reasoable explanation to an evil deed, you are an idiot. You dont need to accept the deed itsself, and you may disagree with the explanation, but if you bury your head into sand and ignore it, you are an ignorant *******.

Im sure that you and your buddy from Germany see the logic in that

Remember, it was you who said it, not me.

[camper.]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

LOL, last post was 9 screenfuls @ 1920x1440 res, good job on that.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

I wouldnt have posted but Im trying to make a new record. If I can fill one whole full page, Im going to stop posting completely LOL.

[LaikaSB]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

This is exactly like an arguement between a theist and an atheist.

[L3adcannon]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Is the arguing about soloers or teamwork in general?
Can I say the thread has slightly derailed?
That`s one long *** post though.

[mcgivrs]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Im sorry, if you lack proper arguments to support your opinion in a matter, you shouldnt be in an argument in the first place. Its that simple. It doesnt make me better as a person, nor you worse as one. But if you bring forward your opinion in a derogatory manner, you should be able to defend it, or at least show reason behind your strong opinion. People in this thread, who oppose soloing, use excuses and arguments that are factually and statisticall shot down. If you cant support your opinion which is based on personal hate anyway, why bother?

Im not a weasel, although I would rank a weasel as a cunning and smart animal. Im just a guy who in this case, has better arguments. If you want to be a flamebait, I would gladly play the game because at this moment, that would entertain me. We can exchange arguments and opinions in a civil manner, or we can do it with dirt and flames. Or we can drop it here and now.



Go to Youtube.com or video.google.com and use the following searchwords-

"ArmyDr helicopter tutorial", if youre successful, you will find a =F13=ArmyDr helicopter tutorials, there are 4 of them. The last one is labaled "Helicopter Tutorials, the Gunners Seat" or something. This will get you all the basics in gunning. You can also use this forums search function to find detailed information on how to properly use the gunners seat. There are a few EXCELLENT guides in these forums that would help you out a lot. After youve done learning, reading and watching. Go to Single Player or make your own local server, park your helo on the tip of the carrier and start shooting those TV rockets.

It comes down to dedication to the area. If you lack in dedication... well, then you be redlined. Redlining is when someone takes the chopper to the end of the map, lets you die and flies off alone.

cheers for that mate, ill have a good look at that tonight, :salute:

[GameOver]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

If anyone else here loves to use the chopper as I do knows that about 95% of the bf2 community is worthless in the gunner seat. A chopper with a crappy gunner is worthless, and wastes a valuable asset to the team.

So, why is soloing frowned upon?

Soloing is usually frowned upon by the enemy or admins who don't like to fight against tough opponents. A chopper used by a skilled soloer or a skilled pilot and a skilled gunner is the most effective killing machine in the game. It is the thing that will ruin the opponents' fun and it will be the most significant factor in winning the round for his own team and in causing the defeat of the other team. On the other hand, a two manned chopper is totally useless if one member of the heli crew is incompetent.

As you said, about 95% of the BF2 community is worthless in the gunner seat, i.e. there are only a few skilled gunners (compared to the total number of BF2 players) and the number of skilled pilots is even less. That means it is very likely that at least one member of a fresh assembled heli crew will be incompetent.

From the enemy's/admins' point of view that means: If a soloer ruins their fun, let's make a lame rule like "Solo flying--->KICK!". Problem solved. The skilled soloer will very likely fly with an incompetent pilot/gunner, which will make him a more desired (I mean: weaker) opponent.

[Verzili]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Tell me then, what is a chopper pilot doing, by taking out all armor on the map then? Isnt it providing a safer grounds for the infantry to cap flags and kill the enemey, thus supporting them? And look at it from another angle. Squads usually dont cooperate with each other, so theres no teamwork, at least using your logic.

well good chopper pilot should still be able to take out armor with hellfire's despite how useless the co pilot maybe,we have the at kit for that specific reason,and we have engineer mines,oh dont forget we also have out own tanks,and c4 to take out tanks.

i agree a solo could do it fast,but whats the rush,no need to spoil others fun by going solo.

if you don't like getting killed alot with under par gunner's then either get some extra flying time in sp so you can maneuver better or leave the chopper be.

as 30 players on the team can manage tanks with ease with out the help of a chopper.

Except that in real life, people work as a team to stay alive. If you do not benefit from teamwork, its an unnecessary burden and not a noble aspect of the game. If youre a teamworker that wont get the job done, but you die a lot, I would rather play alone because I will get the job done.

In real life i would expect that kind of teamwork yes..but this is a game and i have unlimited lives to waste :)

also in real life solo attack choppers would be a no-no as there design for 2 and i am sure the army makes sure there are two when it takes off.

i very rarely die in a game maybe a max of 5 some times 0,i just kill,spot,move in to good spots for squad to spawn from..thats good teamwork right there.

It helps the team all the time. Every time a tank is taken out, some poor infantry has bought himself an extra 30 seconds of living time.

or in another perspective you have just stole a kill from 2 at guys ..lol..yes that was a j/k but possible perhaps.

So you think it would be fair to fly choppers just for the sole purpose of bringing everyone else but yourself the joy and fun of playing a videogame? People play to entertain themselves, youre asking for someone to sacrifice their own fun so that an average (less than efficient) player would get his 3 minutes of fun? How about MY fun? How many hours do I have to fly around deadbeats until I get to actually do my own flying? Youre a sniper on the ground, its so easy for you to preach what you dont practice.

its not a bad idea,i do it all the time,i pass on my knowledge of sniping regularly and its dos not bother me,in fact it get more respect than me telling them to go play sp and that.

2nd bold quote= till you get you're heli badge then you know you have had you fair share of the heli.

3rd bold quote. elaborate?

Thats not teamwork, thats selfsacrifice in a situation where you could very well stay alive. Teamwork is all about the RESULT, and not about the prettyness of the word. Ask a person who has served in military, why is teamwork important

i don't always die some times the heli fly off for repairs,ok some times i do get killed,no bigy :)

i am sure i would get a good answer from the military if i asked what teamwork is..but i feel they would ROFL when i tell them its for a pc game called bf2.

Its DICEs way of saying that its technically not an exploit.

does that mean dice thinks the hotel glitch and jalabad rock glitch is technically not a exploit :)

I have a ~2:1 KDR on the ground, that means I can take out 2 enemies before I die. With an assault rifle. Your stats show less than 1:1. In all terms, youre a terrible asset to the team. Well get to your stats later.

thats a little harsh bashing some guys stats,you have a2.1kdr

well i have a 3.47kdr so i must be better than you then.
3.61 on the sniper kit,and 4.36 on the rifle.

but that doesn't mean i would ridicule you're stats

ok you're heli is most likely better than mine,but thats you're thing.

i just have a go now and then,cant be bother with the que :)

How does the game get easier with VOIP?

well if you don't mind i will answer this one.

1.you never have to type

2.using ts you can communicate with friends that are in different squads

3.the best commanders always use viop

4.you can enjoy the game and have some fun with ****z n giggles instead of being 100%serious and focused every time you play the game.

5.oh nowz are uav is destroyed,and our arty,and the commanders scan,
but you can never destroy our viop!!

i enjoy you're views chris so dont take mine as a me having a go..im trying to explain my views as clear as i can here!!