Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

[Gen.Vlade]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

One time I was gunning for this guy on Oman, I had 3 TV hits and my last one, the 4th one was a miss before we got shut down by a Mig-29. The next round as soon as we took off from the carrier, he said that I suck in the TV, he redlined me and proceeded solo (it took him 5 minutes to redline me btw, the great of the pilot he was).Not even a minute later, his greatness of a pilot gets killed. This time I jumped in a pilot seat before him, and he got in the gunner's seat. Of course I readlined him right away, except for the remaining of the round since we were loosing by a lot already, my misson was not to earn my stupid solo points but to TK the asswipe with hydras every time he respawned on the carrier.
No matter how good of a pilot you think are, your chances to get to the chopper aren't any better than anybody out there and you can't do sh!t about it. Also good luck finding admin that cares how good you are and that will let you have the chopper every time you want it.

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

I am at best a mediocre gunner. This is one reason I have hardly any heli time.

I prefer BF2 as an infantry game with a combined arms element anyway.

But when I've got a **** hot pilot flying for me I can grab a couple of kills, hit some tanks, shoot down heli's and do some pretty good SEAD to help protect the pilot.

Most of the time I don't go up in the heli, and I'm happy to give it to whoever wants it. But I expect the same sort of respect to be returned.

There are games when I've been useless in the heli. I normally swallow two or maybe 3 TV's then I admit I'm having an off day and bug out back to the foot war. However there are times when I do have good runs and manage to finish a match 32-0 or the like.

But I can tell you with with 100% certainty, both the pilots and I had a riot. We were talking **** when we could, calling out enemys when we needed to, and congratulating each other on nice work,and laughing when something stupid happened.

And that is what the game is about. Having fun all round. If you can only get your rocks off by winning,then you need to see a professional.

Sure winning is generally MORE fun, but it shouldn't be the death of your game if you aren't winning.

KBK

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

And that is what the game is about. Having fun all round.

I dont get it, do you think a soloer is not having as much fun as you have?

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

No, I think he is, some times.

He is being selfish in using what's patently a 2 man vehicle for his sole pleasure. But I also think he's having a different type of fun. He's falling into the "I gotta get gold, and anything that stops that is a waste of time".

Sure it's great getting a gold. Hell I've got so few of them I'm bloody exstatic when I do get them, however I've had many great times getting a middle of the road 10th out of 24 (we normally play on 48 people servers on 64 player maps), having a great time with bunch of people having a fun game together and sharing the experience.

Some people forget the game isn't about getting the gold, it's about making sure your side wins.

If a solo-er can do this, then great. But it'd be nicer if he let someone else play with that toy as well.

However if the ONLY way you can have fun is the gold, and a kill record of 50-0, then you really need to take a break and probably speak to someone who charges by the hour.

KBK

[G0ggy]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

I hope this thread never ends...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

A soloer isnt a teamworker coz hes not cooperating or communicating with the rest of the team.

Infantry spotted tank, soloer takes tank out. We have cooperation and communication. We dong have VOIP communication, but we have exchange of information which is essentially communication. Argument failed.

Look, how many soloers out there kill stuff just to help their team and not to get better stats or just have fun by killing ppl? Just killing ppl doesnt make you a teamworker.

How many infantry players, or Snipers playing Wake* are out there to help the team and not get better stats or just have fun killing people? Based on your BF2 stats, you are MAYBE an average player in terms of involvement in teams actions. Youve got less than 50% of your time spent in a squad. You have no idea what youre talking about. If a soloer helps his teammates by killing, which is all he can do, hes doing his part.

There isnt much teamwork between ppl who doesnt communicate with eachother.

I had 3 rounds in Barricaded Suspects mode in SWAT4 yesterday. I hopped into a server where everyone was solo. I immediately grouped up with 3 top scoring players on my team and we swept the server. I didnt get arrested once, my death rate went down, and we won 3 rounds out of 4. I also scored more due to not dieing that much. SWAT4 doesnt have VOIP and we used Pic-in-Pic helmet mounted camersas and in game order menus. Teamwork is based on ones choices, not ones words. Argument failed.

Yet again you talk about teamwork as if its a bad thing and will only get you killed. You told me yourself that 2 guys working together is will achieve more than 5 loners. Thats why you should team up with someone.

No. Youre saying teaming up with someone is fun. Im saying its hard work and very often is unfun. The statistics of 2 > 5 is taken from military. In military, two soldiers either have similar tactical knowledge and training, or even better, know each other. This translates well into the game. The best example would be BabySpinach and BushViper who play together very often and benefit from each other a lot. If someone is TOO sub par, he becomes a hinderance and not an advantage. Which is when grouping up with someone will become an annoyiance. Keep up with common sense please. I feel like Im spoonfeeding you.

Teamwork does benefit ppl involved. Chris, its a fact that two guys working together and comunicating in a chopter will beat a soloer of eaqualent skill.

Actually its not a fact, and coming from you, with a less than 1:1 KDR in a chopper, its an arrogant claim.

Two ppl in a chopter are more effective, so yes it does matter how its manned.

Two people in a chopper are effective only if they are skilled. Statistically, skilled chopper wh0res are hard to find. Notice, their effectiveness can easily be challenged by a soloer who has mastered the cannon use. Since you really dont know what youre talking about, use Redux´ "Duck and Cover", a more than a year old video as reference. Ask any top CAL team if they changed their soloer for a 2 man team in a scrim.

Wrong. Read your definition of teamwork again.

My definition states that when a group of people work together towards a common goal, they are perfoming teamwork. A soloer supporting ground troops in taking enemies tickets is performing his part in teamwork. Use common sense.

Again, killing ppl doesnt make you a teamworker.

Then what does? Communcation? Weve been there, every time you use the commo rose, youre communcating. Communcation is merely an echange of information. Cooperation? Soloer is supporting the troops, troops spot the targets. Use better arguments.

Well in case you didnt know it, you actually have to comunicate in order to cooperate.

Proof please. Refer to SWAT teams entries, how much communcation do you see past "CLEAR"? People who know how communcation in engagement works, know also about the "KISS" concept. You dont. Dont teach me about communication if you know jack about it.

Again... Whats your point?

That you dont know what youre talking about.

Well if you have a positive K/D ratio you are helping your team coz you take away more tickets than you spend dont you think?

ROFLMAO, you just bagged yourself big time. Didnt you say that positive KDR doesnt make you a teamplayer and that it doesnt mean anything? And now youre saying that positive KDR helps your team? Helping the team is performing teamwork.

Gaaaah. Coz hes just killing ppl coz its fun or for his K/D ratio, helping the team in just a bonus.

So, youre saying a player with the positive KDR is helping the team, but hes only killing for his own fun? Isnt that a teamworker who happens to have fun out of his own game? Isnt that a perfect mix? No, people need to be like you. Suck at playing, but have high ideals about "proper teamwork". Remember, your squad time is less than 50% of your play time, you have an "average" ammount of teamwork score and you have a very high teamkill number based on your kill count. You not only, are a horrible teamworker, you are a hinderance to your team and you practice teamkilling for your jet. Practice what you preach.

Dont you think that ppl play BF2 coz its fun? And not to win as many rounds as possible?

Which is why most of BF2 players play solo, lonewolf their way through, because its fun for them. Youre one of those lonewolves, dont forget that.

So you kill ppl to help the team and not coz its fun or to increase your K/D ratio?

Consider this, I have (crudely estimated) about 20-40 hours as a solo pilot. About ten times more as a pilot who flew with a gunner. My infantry KDR is 2:1 and my jet KDR in the mixed account is between 10 and 20. If KDR was my primary concern, I would have dropped Bf2 even sooner. People solo because its fun and they dont have to be dragged down by less skilled players. Just because you suck at BF2 and have a low KDR, doesnt make you better, nor worse as a human being at that matter.

My KDR on my Waaah_wah account is 1.46. Where the hell did you pull that 1:1 from?

Assault rifles. Check it.

When i fly im usually a medic and not a sniper, so your point kinda fails...

Judging by your stats, I find it hard to believe. Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt your medic time lower than your jet time?

I have like 20-30 hours in a chopter and i still know that its EXTEMELY easy to take dont a soloer while hes guiding the missile. Also, can a soloer be just a sefficient with the chan gun as a two man crew can? Can he perform funneling(sp?) around a flag and at the same time rape ppl with his MG?NOPE!

Please, go ahead and challenge a soloer. Anyone of the TBF2 crew would be up for it.
A soloer can be just as efficient with his MG as a two man crew can be, just check some CAL matches, Duck and Cover aswell for example. And funneling is horrible for machine gun as it gives the worst angle on the targets. A chopper pilots job is not to funnel around the flags but to kill armor and support the teammates.

Comes fro a guy who got insults in almost every reply...

Scroll back and check who started with the insults.

I didnt say that ppl group up in real life just coz its "cool" or "fun". But in games thats often the reason.

In games, people "join squads" because "its cool". But how many fully functional squads do you see in an average BF2 round?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:Maybe coz theres almost no teamwork in BF2 and absolutely none in SP?

Tacticalgamer.com, just for one. Theres plenty of teamwork in BF2, you just need the right server. And BF2 bots are more than able to respond to each and every one of your request making them excellent teamworkers... erm cannon fodders.

Just read some of my other replies to why a soloer isnt a teamworker. I dont wanna type that all over again

You never have.

What if i want to use some more "advance" tactic? How do i tell ppl to thow a smoke across the street and then tell two of them to stay behind while the rest of the squad flanks the enemy?

"Advanced tactics"? What youre describing, by all standards, is basic tactics. You set a marker on designated enemy, type "2 stay, 3 with me, someone smoke the street" (took me 2 seconds to type it up, BTW, almost as fast using VOIP) and then you roll.

And five regular SWAT4 pubbers would tear apart five equalently skilled SWAT4 pubbers if they were using VT/TS

Not necessarily true. A somewhat rude, but common practice amongst some of the SWAT4 clans is to smurf their way into a clans server and empty it by dominating by playing just as a pair. If youre on TS with them, all you hear is them giggling and talking ****. The occasional "help, 2 guys with gasmasks" would be in order, but thats really unnecessary considering SWAT4 utilises helmet mounted cameras which let you see what your teammate sees. Note, the opposition, if being a bunch of clanners, is almost always on TS doing the same thing. SWAT4 is a great example of how you dont need VOIP to play as a team. Most of the players are skilled and experienced enough to segment each other into "followers" and "leaders". They sunconsciously either play off others and generate tactical choices on the fly by following their teammates (flanking, covering, leapfrogging, et cetera) or they lead and let their teammates play off themselves. So if were dealing with random pubbers in S4, VOIP is unnecessary. In TSS EXP pack where VOIP was included, VOIP was used only to ask where the briefcase was, mostly. And of course in COOP, but COOP is a different gamemode altogether. Ive played both VOIP and VOIPless teamwork, and if you know the maps the whole shizznit alltogether through and throgh, VOIP becomes an unnecessary distraction.

Seriously, if you cant talk while doing something elce, you have some issues.

Quote me on where I said "i cant".

You said that VOIP is distracting you and that you cant perform good when you use it. And thats more or less the same

Its only "more or less the same" for someone who has mental issues with understanding written text.

im pretty sure that your not English. So im gonna go with German? maybe Dutch? Or French? Probably one of those three. Maybe Spanish...

Keep guessing. English is my 3rd language.

How the f*ck do you know that...? Please stop this wild guessing about my play style coz when you wonr, and you are now, it make you look like an idot. This is how long i've been playing as a medic 46:55:25. When i fly i am usually a medic so i can heal myself if i go out of bounds. Sometimes when i fly the F35 i play as a sniper so i can still have fun if i bail.

70 hours total being airbourne, out of which you have 46 hours as a medic. Thats 3 hours short.

Youve played 88 hours as a sniper, that is closer to 70, than 46. Thats Wake, a jet/chopper wh0res map. Needless to say youre not "usually" a medic and youre not "usually" a sniper. Youre MOSTLY a sniper and "sometimes" a medic. Usually, "just" a sniper would be sniping, but out of your total time, nearly 30% is spent airbourne, about 40% is spent as a sniper and your sniper

You have 3577 kills as a sniper and 3773 kills as a pilot. You have 1400+ kills as a medic. Im sorry, the conclusion Im drawing here is rather grim, dont you think?

When i join a squad, i usually ask if ppl have VOIP. If they have ill stay, if they dont ill leave. If i see that they are actually doing something usefull and not just doing "their own thing", ill probably leave. Whats the point to be in a squad if theres no teamwork in the squad?

You see, a really experienced teamplayer like you should make your own squad and ask people in who have VOIP, instead you leave the squad and play alone? Comeon, who are you kidding...

Waaah_Wah isnt not only account.

Im sure its not, but its an account you use regularly.

Constant choices that restrict your freedom as a player.

Elaborate plz

Going out of your defensive position to heal or revive a teammate, first and most popular one, where the choice to play as a teamplayer restricts you.

Lets see... You like to fly chopters all by yourself, you dont like teamwork coz a squadleader might ask you to do something you dont really want. You like to redline ppl just so you can fly a chopter allone. Enough?

Based on what fabricated evidence did you conclude that?

For me it is more fun. But hey, it might not be fun for statswhores.

Wake, pilot, sniper. Half the time in squad. Youre a carbon cut copy of a statwhore. Out of your 200 hours, youve spent an entire hour parachuting. But we dont care about our KDR, right?

If teamwork is not fun why do you think ppl play ArmA or PR? Or why do you think ppl join clans?

ArmA has 300 people online at the moment. PR has far less than BF2 vanilla. Yeah, real solid argument there...

Its much easier to explain stuff using VOIP. And faster. Sometimes in PR, you spot ppl who are outside your minimap range, ppl wont notice them so you have to tell them where the guy(s) is/are. Also when you spot a guy on the 2 floor in a building, they will see him sooner if you say "enemy, north-east on 2nd floor" instead of having them fugure out if hes on the first or second floor or the roof.

Now, is that easier (as in takes less work) or is that just more detailed and faster? Spotting takes 0.5 seconds or less. Everything else is extra luxury.

What marker? There is no "smoke" marker in BF2 or PR. And ppl cant really read what im thinking now can they?

:shakehead:

When you have to cross a street in PR you just run. It takes around 20 seconds for the smoke to get thick enough to cover the street so it will be much faster to just run over.

LOL! So now youre saying smoke is not really needed...

A squad of ppl who are communicating will beat a squad of loneres anyday and anywhere.

Right, Im sure if you set a squad of lone CAL players against a squad of inexperienced players against each other, the CAL players will lose :laugh:

Not when you have 5 other squadmates watching your back. Sometimes you get a newbie in a squad, and you just have to "take care of him". And after 30 min you wont even notice that hes a newbie. If hes willing to learn ofcource.

At the end of those 30 minutes, he still has craptacular aim, no coordination and no knowledge of the map. Hes as good as dead and falls as the first victim. Teamwork can only exist if people have the basic skills to support it.

Have you ever seen my PR stats? Or my "Karkand stats"?

Im sure you have displayed your "worst" stats in TBF2, the one account you used just a few days back. Theres no shame in having lousy stats. Shame is in praching what you dont practice and showing your stats while saying you dont care about them.

Already did

No you didnt. You have yet to explain how a game becomes easier, how a player becomes better by using VOIP.

And what would happend to you if they would use UAV and grenades?

Depending on my knowledge of the map I would take the most protected spot covering the most used route. All simple logic.

Jesus! Do you want me to pull that quote up again??? You said that if they showed skill or atleast common sence you woudl then ask them for their age. And if they were below 18 you would redline them. So if they have skill and arent 18, you would redline them. And heres the quote:

Again, where in that quote am I saying that I redline not for the lack of skills, but for lower age? Find it. Ive said multiple times- I redline for unwillingness to learn, no potential and no skill. Maybe not in those exact words, but Ive left a fair enough of clues that I will give my copilot at least one chance and redline him if he shows no chance of "rehabilitation", without hesitation.

No offence but there are probably alot of 14 year olds out there who are smarter than both you and me. So saying that they have to be dumb just coz their younger than you is just plain stupidity.

Its not about them being stupid, its about them being inconsiderate and too cocky, with too much attitude and most of all- pride, to accept that someone who has more experience can actually teach them. In my experience, older people accept that fact and will learn, younger people will ignore you.

:laugh:Oh my oh my... You know SO much about me. Are you stalking me?

Youre a textbook case, no need to stalk you.

If something is truth, its a fact. For me its more fun to use KB&M, thats a fact. For me

Thats great, but thats a fact for you and you only. Someone else doesnt live in your little bubble and has other experiences, other... "facts".

Yes ppl like me who actually have logic and common sence would say that a soloer is not a teamplayer.

Yes, your poll shows that very nicely. Call them all idiots too? :laugh:

My pilot stats are OK thank you very much. And just coz i dont search for jet videos on youtube makes me a bad pilot?

5:1 on Wake is hardly OK.

Again, i said that he exterminated jews and he DID. So i wasnt wrong.

Youre missing the point. He didnt exterminate Jews because they were jews. He exterminated because he deemed jews to be racially inferior, he also exterminated sh!tload of other folks deeming them an economical burden to the Third Reich.

I think everyone here have Tked ppl intentionally. But i havent intentionally TKed a guy who didnt deserver it.

LOL, who are you to say if he deserved it or not. The fact that you intentionally TKed a person makes you an idiot. Someone with noble values would say that two wrongs doesnt make a right. Youre a hypocrite.

More or less true. But dont tell me that you kill ppl coz to help those poor guys on the ground and not for fun/KDR.

No less nor more than you.

No they would be more efficiant than a soloer

Elaborate

I already explained the difference

You have been proven wrong by chopper pilots who actually know what they are talking about.

Ffs... Killing tanks that someone spotted doesnt make you a teamworker by default.

It doesnt? Talking that tank to death does, right?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: When that comes from a guy who thinks that doesnt like teamwork, VOIP and who is flying solo chopters and who doesnt like PR and ArmA, i just cant help myself not to laugh.

Easy there son, you cant even define teamwork, let alone explain how it functions.

You still havent proved me wrong. Btw, im starting a poll.

LOL...

Yes and no. He was a genious for rebuilding the country, he was a great leader. But hes also a major idiot for attacking USSR and The Allied at the same time and loosing a world war that he himself started.

If you actually knew anything about history, you would know that his attack on USSR was an inevitable outcome. If he didnt attack Russia, Russia would have attacked him. His timing was wrong, thats it. Germans did not expect Russian winter to be that cold.

No, I think he is, some times.

He is being selfish in using what's patently a 2 man vehicle for his sole pleasure. But I also think he's having a different type of fun. He's falling into the "I gotta get gold, and anything that stops that is a waste of time".

Arent these two really just wild assumptions? You see, Im having genuine fun from using a chopper on my own. No less fun than using it as a member of a crew.

Youre basically assuming its done for the stats and the medals, and all the shiny BS. Thats a lot of assumptions.

[waaah_wah]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

No, I think he is, some times.

He is being selfish in using what's patently a 2 man vehicle for his sole pleasure. But I also think he's having a different type of fun. He's falling into the "I gotta get gold, and anything that stops that is a waste of time".

Sure it's great getting a gold. Hell I've got so few of them I'm bloody exstatic when I do get them, however I've had many great times getting a middle of the road 10th out of 24 (we normally play on 48 people servers on 64 player maps), having a great time with bunch of people having a fun game together and sharing the experience.

Some people forget the game isn't about getting the gold, it's about making sure your side wins.

If a solo-er can do this, then great. But it'd be nicer if he let someone else play with that toy as well.

However if the ONLY way you can have fun is the gold, and a kill record of 50-0, then you really need to take a break and probably speak to someone who charges by the hour.

KBK

Exactly. The best round i've had in PR was when i was sitting on a huge mountain on the biggest map in PR (Kashan Desert) with my binoculars and was spotting stuff for a chopter duo in my squad. The gunner (R-MOD Masaq) finished the round with somethnig like 75-4, but my stats were something like 2-1. And still i had great fun. Both he and his pilot were using VOIP and i can tell you for a fact that i wouldnt sit on a mountain for 1.5 hours just spotting stuff if they would keep comunication at the wery minimum.

Btw, Kayback have you tried Project Reality?

[CobraBall]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

The amount of time some of you have spent debating this is mindboggling. Just agree to disagree and stop wasting your time, obviously no one here is going to change anyone else's mind.

[Gen.Vlade]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Here we go again with the 20 pages single posts.
Why do we have 5 threads of the same kind at the same time and none of them is closed yet? Has anybody seen Scinto?

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Nope never tried PR. I want to, but live in the back end of beyond, (Africa) and the only servers ping at 600+. But i love the concept.

Chris, true. However the solo pilots i've encountered have seriously been medal chasing. Most of the guys up for a blast ask if anyone wants to tag along.

[.Churr.]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

i never told anyone here to team up with noobs. I just tell you that redlining is stupidity and i have never said that a soloer doesnt help his team.

By default, 99% of the times you hop in with a random gunner or pilot, he is a noob. And you said a soloer is not a teamworker; isn't teamwork about helping the team?

Not just having one, no. But if you cooperate and comunicate with him then yes.

If cooperation and communication don't result in effectively reducing the opponent's tickets or helping the team to do so, then the crew is useless.

Teamwork is not about being killed together.

I enevr said that...

Maybe, but teaming up with a noob partner results in death.

Have i ever said that that I can kill any soloer if i have a pilot/gunner? If you have Pred or Sloi agains you while you solo, you would loose. You are better than me in a chopter i never said that im the greatest chopter whore here.

Not exactly. If Pred or Sloi, or whoever you want to be there, have a noob pilot or gunner, chances are I will win.

Exactly. Therefore you have no rights to argue what should be done in choppers.

The very idea of some guy with less than 17 hours and 0.85 KDR in choppers arguing about soloing is ludicrous. It's equivalent to ask a high school student who just took his first physics course about quantum mechanics. ZERO credibility.

[Gun slinger]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

He is being selfish in using what's patently a 2 man vehicle for his sole pleasure. But I also think he's having a different type of fun. He's falling into the "I gotta get gold, and anything that stops that is a waste of time".

Sure it's great getting a gold. Hell I've got so few of them I'm bloody exstatic when I do get them, however I've had many great times getting a middle of the road 10th out of 24 (we normally play on 48 people servers on 64 player maps), having a great time with bunch of people having a fun game together and sharing the experience.

Some people forget the game isn't about getting the gold, it's about making sure your side wins.

If a solo-er can do this, then great. But it'd be nicer if he let someone else play with that toy as well.

However if the ONLY way you can have fun is the gold, and a kill record of 50-0, then you really need to take a break and probably speak to someone who charges by the hour.

KBK

first off, I bought this game for ME to have fun, I did NOT buy this game to supply fun for you or any duchebag co-pilot that comes along

and just who the fug are you to determine what type of fun I seek and what type of fun Im actually having......its sure not about the gold, I got plenty of them
my fun consists of taking out a chopper and netting 2 kills where I can imagine the looks on their faces when they realize they were just killed by a soloer, my fun consists of killing the same noob helo crew over and over again to the point where as soon as they see me one of them and sometimes both of them bail for fear of dieing again by that no-good mofo soloer
thats what I consider a good time, care to be my patsy??

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Unless the person only has 17 hours because the solo whores keep redlining them. Or such. Just because you don't have much experience doesn't mean you don't have a valid argument. Observations can give insight. Having watched solo pilots getting shot down time and time again by duo's is pretty good evidence.

[.Churr.]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Unless the person only has 17 hours because the solo whores keep redlining them. Or such. Just because you don't have much experience doesn't mean you don't have a valid argument. Observations can give insight. Having watched solo pilots getting shot down time and time again by duo's is pretty good evidence.

Being a soloer doesn't make the player automatically good.

[yUP|Patriots]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Chris, I think you hit an all time internet record with that post.