No Vehicle option details

[Talus]

Re: No Vehicle option details

IO or Vehicle Light (fingers crossed) will have to be ranked or nobody is going to want to play them.

If people didn't want to play them, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

People play MODS because they WANT to....not because they're ranked.

[Dangerdog]

Re: No Vehicle option details

Infantery mod need increased damage!!! More like PRMM style one shot one kill, this would make it much more teamplay oriented.

We allso need some kind of transport. boats, jeeps and heli (Only light helis like little bird and Huey)

While I respect your enjoyment of the Project Reality Mod I completely disagree, save the reality tweaks for the mods. People want to play Infantry Only without having to adjust to different rules and balance tweaks between regular BF2 and an Infantry Only mode.

To be fair - I'm fairly happy to have IO mode if it is the vehicle lite proposal being ranked
- if you consider yourself a real BF2 player, the points system means jack anyway. It is after all just a lure for casual players
- infantry combat already exists on Sharqi and Mashtuur and Karkand and they are ranked. IF DICE had designed all the maps with a consistent approach there wouldn't be an issue but having next to no combat vehicles on those maps kind of destroys the non ranked argument
- the existing maps are not going to be tweaked. It would take too much time and isn't likely to be done a year later
- It will keep the community together and avoid splitting
- DICE's promise that multiple game modes will be possible in a server rotation will mean that IO mode can be integrated into normal rotation.

I don't think they'll take the time to balance vehicle placement on the maps either, way too much work, I'd love to be proven wrong though

With regard to having IO in rotatoin with regular BF2 unfortunately that won’t be possible with the way they implemented this game mode apparently.

Multiple game modes in a single map list was one of the fixes on our initial list. So it *should* be fixed.

However because the no vehicles option is a switch set at server launch and not a mape game mode it cant be used like this.

Re: No Vehicle option details

IO or Vehicle Light (fingers crossed) will have to be ranked or nobody is going to want to play them.

Re: No Vehicle option details

To be fair - I'm fairly happy to have IO mode if it is the vehicle lite proposal being ranked
- if you consider yourself a real BF2 player, the points system means jack anyway. It is after all just a lure for casual players
- infantry combat already exists on Sharqi and Mashtuur and Karkand and they are ranked. IF DICE had designed all the maps with a consistent approach there wouldn't be an issue but having next to no combat vehicles on those maps kind of destroys the non ranked argument
- the existing maps are not going to be tweaked. It would take too much time and isn't likely to be done a year later
- It will keep the community together and avoid splitting
- DICE's promise that multiple game modes will be possible in a server rotation will mean that IO mode can be integrated into normal rotation.

[Talus]

Re: No Vehicle option details

Harmor, I would love to play on your Wake Island

Yes, there ARE maps where it seems like armor and aircraft 'ruin' the game. They should tweak those maps for sure. Wake is one of them.

Making a vehicle lite option would be a reasonable stop-gap until they can address the balance issue properly.

Re: No Vehicle option details

Infantery mod need increased damage!!! More like PRMM style one shot one kill, this would make it much more teamplay oriented.

We allso need some kind of transport. boats, jeeps and heli (Only light helis like little bird and Huey)

[Dangerdog]

Re: No Vehicle option details

I just need to hear a compelling arguement as to why this mode NEEDS to be ranked?

It just doesn't make sense.

The fact that this mode is going to exist at all should be enough for most players...

It's basically a MOD.

The CORE, BASIC, and UNALTERED GAME should be ranked. That way, fairness and balance is NEVER a problem.

Why shouldn’t it be ranked? If you were to argue that it will be somehow used by people to pad their score I think you can get a higher kill to death ratio and score flying an airplane or driving a tank than someone walking around the map with a machine gun.

If the only thing that matters in Battlefield 2 is vehicles then why even bother to track anything else but deaths and kill with them? I currently see that Battlefield 2 is 80% about infantry combat, there’s only so many planes and tanks to go around.

Some official maps are pretty much focused on just infantry combat and are ranked, you might recognize these in the server browser with a 24/7 next to them and they’re usually full, should these be excluded from being ranked because they lack jets or even commander artillery (Iron Gator as an example)

The reason why this mode NEEDS to be ranked is because that’s the only way to track your player stats which is pretty much all you have left once you’ve unlocked all the weapons, people enjoy that aspect of Battlefield 2, even mods recognize this as evident with the efforts of Point of Existence 2 (see the front page for PoE2 update regarding player stat tracking)

You could also call Armored Fury a MOD, its focus is on Armored combat, should that be excluded from being ranked because it has too many tanks? I imagine if you set up a server with a small enough player count there would be a vehicle of some type or another for each player, presto you have the inverse of an Infantry Only type game, I wouldn’t have a problem with it being ranked. Again, Special Forces expansion, is that a MOD? None of the maps have jets; oops that’s not what Battlefield 2 is all about, that should be excluded too then?

I don’t see an Infantry Only mode an upset to fairness and balance, if anything things are even more balanced and fair, saying otherwise would be to say that one side has far superior weapons than the other, we could argue that point but I think DICE did a fairly good job making the infantry weapons balanced yet slightly different among the various teams.

Re: No Vehicle option details

I didnt' say they were balanced...

I'm saying they should FOCUS on balancing them, instead of spending time on this silly mod.

With a 'Vehicle-Lite' ranked map option for every map it would still be balanced for ALL kits. Don't you think?

The 'Vehicle-Lite' ranked map option was posted in the DICE feedback forum here:

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83529

and a DICE employee has reponded to it twice.

Let me clarify somewhat. No changes to anything other than replacing the following vehicle spawns should be made for a ranked 'Vehicle-Lite' option to ALL maps:

• Replace Tank/APC spawns with Heavy Jeeps
• Repalce AA vehicle spawns with Light Jeeps
• Remove Jets
• Replace Littlebird and Attack Helicopters with Transport Helicopters

That's it. Its pretty simple and would breed new life into EVERY map. To be honest I would play maps that I don't play often if they had this option; as it stands now I pretty much only play Karkand.

Imagine playing Wake Island 2007 with 3 Blackhawk and 4 RIB spawns on the carrier? Or Gulf of Oman with 2 Heavy Jeep and 1 Transport Helicopter spawn at the Airfield.

See what makes BF2 are the vehicles. This separates BF2 from all the other games because they implemented vehicles that were balanced and had checks. No need to have a mode that has 2x hp...all that does it make Medics godly and Engineers useless. I would definiately play on ranked servers that had ALL maps in rotation with this 'Vehicle-Lite' option.

Do you want to spawn on the Dalian Plant USMC carrier when there's only 4 RIBs for your entire team of 64? No. But if there were 4 RIBs and 3 Blackshawk helicopters then it wouldn't be so bad, would it?

I'm not saying to remove the non-ranked Infantry-only option as implemented in the 1.40 BETA, but I am suggesting adding a ranked 'Vehicle-Lite' option. I think everyone would agree that when they spawn at a flag away from the action that having a Jeep or Transport Helicopter nearby wouldn't be such a bad thing? The alternative would be to walk...

[Talus]

Re: No Vehicle option details

I didnt' say they were balanced...

I'm saying they should FOCUS on balancing them, instead of spending time on this silly mod.

Re: No Vehicle option details

The CORE, BASIC, and UNALTERED GAME should be ranked. That way, fairness and balance is NEVER a problem.

:laugh2: You're joking, right? There is no way the present maps are carefully balanced.

You don't really have to worry about balance in this game, you just give opposing forces about the same amount of firepower and the most organized side with the best players will win 99% of the time. But in all the maps I have played on here either both sides have armor or both don't, either both have aircraft or both don't, either both have attack choppers or both don't. Do you see what I am getting at? EA didn't worry about balance, they just tried to give both sides the same amount of firepower. How would taking armor, attack helicopters, and jets away from any of the present map scenarios unbalance them? As far as I can see it would affect both sides pretty much equally.

I can see how taking boats and transport helicopters away from Wake Island would make things much harder for the Marines. Attacking forces need transport. That is why Wake and a few other maps shouldn't be "infantry only" they should be infantry and transport only maps. Besides, transport craft make the game fun, plain and simple.

Re: No Vehicle option details

I agree with having transport aircraft in IO mode.. however I'd also like it if the damage of the guns on the choppers would be balanced with those on transport vehicles. Addition of transport choppers would make IO games much more fun and interesting, giving us more tactics, and we'll be able to spot enemy on roof tops easier.

Re: No Vehicle option details

infantray only is the pandora's box..

why first create a whole new game with lot's of new game standards, like great vehicles and then later on give it an option to remove those..

if you are good then you adapt to the situation. now all the so called pro noobs are yelling that they are waisted by vehicles..

let bf2 as it is please. there is no other game like this around. please make it only for non ranked......

i can see the disaster coming up that a lot of servers are going to use infantry only just to attract people....

i can not even express myself properly of how bad this is...

Re: No Vehicle option details

People purchased BF2 for one or more of the following reasons:
1) Played BF1942, or other BF game in the series and enjoyed it
2) Had a friend who played BF2 and enjoyed it
3) Read or otherwise seen a review of BF2 and was impressed enough to purchase it

People buy the game to play a ground-pounder, fly a jet or helo, drive a tank, or use any of the other various vehicles and equipment left at our disposal. People "voted" by buying the game with these features in the first place. The vehicles are a key, integral part of the game. If you remove the vehicles, you take away everything that makes BF2 great.

careful - talus will probably delete this for being offtopic lol


ontopic: i agree BF2 is awesome as it is. But it would be selfish of me to prevent the masses whether they be a majority or not (but lets face it they are the former, a majority - the FPS market is the largest customer base for DICE, not the jet pilots or the tank sim drivers) having a mode that allows infantry combat to thrive

So as a compromise that will appeal to both camps
Replace Armour, jets, attack helicopters and artillery with heavy, light, helicopter and rib transports and you have a game mode - Infantry mode - that pleases everyone
And if you don't like it, you just don't play it

Talus - Off-topic removed :p

Re: No Vehicle option details

People purchased BF2 for one or more of the following reasons:
1) Played BF1942, or other BF game in the series and enjoyed it
2) Had a friend who played BF2 and enjoyed it
3) Read or otherwise seen a review of BF2 and was impressed enough to purchase it

People buy the game to play a ground-pounder, fly a jet or helo, drive a tank, or use any of the other various vehicles and equipment left at our disposal. People "voted" by buying the game with these features in the first place. The vehicles are a key, integral part of the game. If you remove the vehicles, you take away everything that makes BF2 great.

Re: No Vehicle option details

I dont agree with the possible transport choppers. If they are in IO, then that limits any boosting of the guns (which most REALLY want), so it is in or out.

at this stage that ship has sailed, unless DICE decides to replace the miniguns just pretend its an M240 you are shooting - that way it makes sense
Its too late to change them back anyway - all I'd like to see is them have more armour against MG fire, just a little more.