Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

[Painboy]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Put aside for a minute whether or not the game will become boring or more tactical or whatever. Because of the way the game is structured right now taking out squad hopping will make the much of the game hinge much more on luck than planning.

Right now a commander in an 8v8 (the most played style) can basically see everything on the map. Without sqaud hopping it will be very easy to see any push on a flag. As you cannot do a feint attack or slip some one to spawn on in between scans. The defenders will have a distinct advantage since they have the flag and have a nearby spawn point. The attackers will have no surprise and will have to attack with a smaller force (In order to maintain a near spawn point a squad leader must hang back away from the action).

What all this means is that, all things being equal, the game may come down to what side you get and/or you get a bad initial spawn. Basically a flip of the coin. Once you get a flag you will have a huge advantage. While I like a little randomness in things I don't want luck to be a major deciding factor. I just don't believe that this is going to make the game better.

[Ghilleman]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Um...defenders always have the advantage, in every game, and every place in history. And if a team starts doing badly because they relyed on squad hopping, well, that says something about their skill/playstyle. Several people have already played with no squad hopping, and have found it to be a blast.

[LoganX]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

i'm pretty sure alot of people who play competitively wouldnt like it , but would adapt , yes it would take ALOT more work , but it will cause the game to be more boring , cause the matches to be longer , cause players to stay more separated , harder to sticking together , since the maps are big and not CS small, it will be 10x harder or nearly impossible to keep the team together, in 1 area (unless we got a squad leader sitting around that area of course), if you want realism just go play SWAT games , BF games will never be realism, if you take all the good features like this out , it will cause alot of clans to not be attracted to the game competitively, and cause the game to not be very popular , which i wouldnt like to see , i would like to see BF2 beating out those crappy CS games that have been king of competitive world for over 10 freaking years! Its time for a new king , which is the BF series needs to take over the competitive world now! .. without this feature it will slow down the competitive world in BF2 ALOT i'll bet you on that!

OK Let's break this post down a bit:

it will cause the game to be more boring , cause the matches to be longer , cause players to stay more separated , harder to sticking together , since the maps are big and not CS small, it will be 10x harder or nearly impossible to keep the team together, in 1 area

Hmm...Boring? In who's Eyes...yours? This is nothing more than an opinion.
To me the gameplay will be better. Faster Gameplay does not equal boring to me.

if you want realism just go play SWAT games , BF games will never be realism, if you take all the good features like this out , it will cause alot of clans to not be attracted to the game competitively, and cause the game to not be very popular

Speculation at best.
No one is arguing that BF2 is realistic but it does have more realistic elements than most Shooters. Squadhopping completely and utterly destroys any chance at a realistic atmosphere.

i would like to see BF2 beating out those crappy CS games that have been king of competitive world for over 10 freaking years! Its time for a new king , which is the BF series

I'm glad you want this game to succeed. So do I. But let's do it in a way that separates it from games like CS, not leave features in that make it more like it. Not saying there's squad hopping in CS but the gameplay doesn't nee to be fast like CS to be better.

without this feature it will slow down the competitive world in BF2 ALOT i'll bet you on that!

It will slow the ability to Move about squads, I don't believe the gameplay will suffer much more than that. People are over exaggerating about the slowdown. Once comp teams adapt (and they will) the pace will be back to normal.

and still... that is your opinion.

It is many people's opinion.
Just because those people don't have a petition doesn't mean their position in this debate is not valid.

Could this petition be Bias if the majority of the forums it's posted to are Comp forums? Wouldn't that skew the results?

[Brindled]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

i never once said they were not valid, but i will say they are valid only as opinions. dont put words in my mouth.

second off, this was a request for petitioners not an invitation to a "debate." the debate is in another thread. the original poster just asked you to look at it and if you felt like it, sign it. he didnt ask for people to come in here using derogatory labels for what he feels is a part of the game which should be left alone. this thread should be in support of the petition, not a thread to bash the people who want it like it was from release. go to the thread that gives you the leeway to speak your mind. there you can give your opinions and your snide remarks. this should have been a thread for the affirmation of the petition, but here on tbf2 that is utterly impossible. for those of us that want it to stay the same, if we do not speak out it gives the "devs" free reign on any thing else they want to change on their whim. and weve already seen what some of there changes can do.

what i am getting at is: this person was exercising a freedom we have here in the US. by everyone coming in this thread arguing the point, he will never get unbiased results. why cant you people let everyone think for themselves. you come in here with you point of view, for what? to keep others from signing the petition? that is my point. let others think for themselves. i know i do. but your actions speak volumes about your motives.

[WarGimp]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Kinda a silly argument to use since as far as I can tell this thread is 26 pages of conflicting opinions. Backing those opinions up is all you can do to support your "cause".

[triumph]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

I've always prefered the old BF way which is no squad leaders for spawning because their weren't any in game squad leaders at all.
I played massive tourneys and I enjoyed having to duke it out with a few other people to get to a flag to cap and requiring the 3 to 1 rule to take new ground with infantry.
I've never seen BF games as intended for traditional clan play due to the kit/weapon and map design but almost nothing would beat a good 4v4 on a small three flag custom map.

So I say down with squad leader spawning overall.
Would be nice if squad leaders had more tools to use for the map during play such as attack to or move to waypoints to help the squad leader micromanage troops so the squadleader could be more of a tactical leader instead of a moble spawn.

[Brindled]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Kinda a silly argument to use since as far as I can tell this thread is 26 pages of conflicting opinions. Backing those opinions up is all you can do to support your "cause".

not when its the same "arguments" rehashed over and over in a thread only asking for support not a debate. especially when there is already a thread with a debate already in progress.

i am sure ive read the point of view to combat the point i just made: "that this is a public forum, we can say anything we want"
which just goes to show that they are trying to reduce the amount of people that sign the petition. and if you all think the petition isnt worth a damn, then why do you worry about making the opposite point of view so outspoken? because you are in the same selfish boat that we are all in.

[WarGimp]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

not when its the same "arguments" rehashed over and over in a thread only asking for support not a debate. especially when there is already a thread with a debate already in progress.

i am sure ive read the point of view to combat the point i just made: "that this is a public forum, we can say anything we want"
which just goes to show that they are trying to reduce the amount of people that sign the petition. and if you all think the petition isnt worth a damn, then why do you worry about making the opposite point of view so outspoken? because you are in the same selfish boat that we are all in.

Lol.
Agreed.
We all wanna have it our way.
I posted a couple pages back that I can't see this being resolved any time soon. Bumps on the thread will just help get the petition seen by more people, no matter who does the bumping.

[Brindled]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Lol.
Agreed.
We all wanna have it our way.
I posted a couple pages back that I can't see this being resolved any time soon. Bumps on the thread will just help get the petition seen by more people, no matter who does the bumping.

amen brother!

[|.SeSo.| Snake]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Hmm...Boring? In who's Eyes...yours? This is nothing more than an opinion.
To me the gameplay will be better. Faster Gameplay does not equal boring to me.
faster gameply is much better, if I did mention fast gameply is boring I ment slow gameply is boring.

Speculation at best.
No one is arguing that BF2 is realistic but it does have more realistic elements than most Shooters. Squadhopping completely and utterly destroys any chance at a realistic atmosphere. clearly that’s a step forward for realism , which is a very step back for competition players, making the game last much longer , more boring , causing certain competition gameply types like 5v5 be way more boring , causing the 5v5 players to run/walk the whole damn time


I'm glad you want this game to succeed. So do I. But let's do it in a way that separates it from games like CS, not leave features in that make it more like it. Not saying there's squad hopping in CS but the gameplay doesn't nee to be fast like CS to be better. seriously have you ever seen any game that near to CS, Unreal , or Painkiller’s level ; in the competition world? No there is not any game that has very high realism factor taken serious in the competition world, and wont nearly ever. Clearly why is cause they don’t want to see long boring matches that is only run/walk , they want action. Squad hopping will slow the pace a lot more , which a lot of (or most) competitions out there do not want to see in anyway.


It will slow the ability to Move about squads, I don't believe the gameplay will suffer much more than that. People are over exaggerating about the slowdown. Once comp teams adapt (and they will) the pace will be back to normal. its good to see a more slow pace in public gaming servers , but I don’t see being the slow pace gameply being better in competition ever for BF2. Have you really experienced gameply playing the competition world, seems like you have no clue or guessing how it is, its totally different you should try it and see and feel how most of the competition community is feeling..


It is many people's opinion.
Just because those people don't have a petition doesn't mean their position in this debate is not valid.

Could this petition be Bias if the majority of the forums it's posted to are Comp forums? Wouldn't that skew the results?

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Finally, about damn time they nerfed squadhopping. The whole thing goes against what BF2 was trying to look like in the trailer and all other publcations before it was released.

Very true!!

clearly that’s a step forward for realism , which is a very step back for competition players, making the game last much longer , more boring , causing certain competition gameply types like 5v5 be way more boring , causing the 5v5 players to run/walk the whole damn time

Well it's not a step forward for THAT community - still there are many 8vs8 / 12vs12 competition players who are looking forward to play competitions more military style and fight epic battles on the Battlefield (this is what the game is called y'know...)

Why should DICE care about people who don't use vehicles although they are on the map? If some people choose to play 5vs5 infantry - fine - but don't expect DICE to gear the game towards THIS style of gameplay. If people want to play 5vs5 infantry only, they should play an infantry mod that includes squadhopping if they want!

seriously have you ever seen any game that near to CS, Unreal , or Painkiller’s level ; in the competition world? No there is not any game that has very high realism factor taken serious in the competition world, and wont nearly ever. Clearly why is cause they don’t want to see long boring matches that is only run/walk , they want action. Squad hopping will slow the pace a lot more , which a lot of (or most) competitions out there do not want to see in anyway.

Seriously have you ever seen any Battlefield game that plays like Quake, Unreal or Painkiller?? NO! Because this is not the speed of the Battlefield franchise. It was meant to be slower, a little bit more realistic, but still somewhat arcade.

There was a lot of competition in BF1942. There are a lot of clans who would like to compete in epic military style battles, and the whole BF2 game is geared towards this style of gameplay - only squadhopping is what destroys the whole idea.

its good to see a more slow pace in public gaming servers , but I don’t see being the slow pace gameply being better in competition ever for BF2. Have you really experienced gameply playing the competition world, seems like you have no clue or guessing how it is, its totally different you should try it and see and feel how most of the competition community is feeling..

I know how BF2 plays in clanwars - a simple spawn-scheme and then only reflexes, no tactics! That's the primary reason I want squadhopping removed, but I don't mind public gameplay improving either.

The clans who want to play a game that has nothing to do with the original speed and intention of the whole Battlefield series should look out for some mod instead (or hope for an option).

I hate these clanwar evenings right now: You set up the server, someone has connection problems, another one suddenly disconnects, another one's headset has a feedback loop, but finally after going to the toilet and getting something to drink (30 minutes later or something) you have 16 people ready for action. And thanks to squadhopping, sometimes 10 minutes later everything is over again already.... WHERE'S THE FUN HERE??

[|.SeSo.| Snake]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Hmm...Boring? In who's Eyes...yours? This is nothing more than an opinion.
To me the gameplay will be better. Faster Gameplay does not equal boring to me.
faster gameply is much better, if I did mention fast gameply is boring I ment slow gameply is boring.

Speculation at best.
No one is arguing that BF2 is realistic but it does have more realistic elements than most Shooters. Squadhopping completely and utterly destroys any chance at a realistic atmosphere. clearly that’s a step forward for realism , which is a very step back for competition players, making the game last much longer , more boring , causing certain competition gameply types like 5v5 be way more boring , causing the 5v5 players to run/walk the whole damn time


I'm glad you want this game to succeed. So do I. But let's do it in a way that separates it from games like CS, not leave features in that make it more like it. Not saying there's squad hopping in CS but the gameplay doesn't nee to be fast like CS to be better. seriously have you ever seen any game that near to CS, Unreal , or Painkiller’s level ; in the competition world? No there is not any game that has very high realism factor taken serious in the competition world, and wont nearly ever. Clearly why is cause they don’t want to see long boring matches that is only run/walk , they want action. Squad hopping will slow the pace a lot more , which a lot of (or most) competitions out there do not want to see in anyway.


It will slow the ability to Move about squads, I don't believe the gameplay will suffer much more than that. People are over exaggerating about the slowdown. Once comp teams adapt (and they will) the pace will be back to normal. its good to see a more slow pace in public gaming servers , but I don’t see being the slow pace gameply being better in competition ever for BF2. Have you really experienced gameply playing the competition world, seems like you have no clue or guessing how it is, its totally different you should try it and see and feel how most of the competition community is feeling..


It is many people's opinion.
Just because those people don't have a petition doesn't mean their position in this debate is not valid.

Could this petition be Bias if the majority of the forums it's posted to are Comp forums? Wouldn't that skew the results?

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Why do you post the same stuff two times???

[|.SeSo.| Snake]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Why do you post the same stuff two times???

for some reason when i am logged in, it wont show any of my posts, i think the admin or mods are mad at me..

but anyways i logged out and read, this is my response


Well it's not a step forward for THAT community - still there are many 8vs8 / 12vs12 competition players who are looking forward to play competitions more military style and fight epic battles on the Battlefield (this is what the game is called y'know...)

Why should DICE care about people who don't use vehicles although they are on the map? If some people choose to play 5vs5 infantry - fine - but don't expect DICE to gear the game towards THIS style of gameplay. If people want to play 5vs5 infantry only, they should play an infantry mod that includes squadhopping if they want! if they offer , which they don’t , and not many people would want to use mods


Seriously have you ever seen any Battlefield game that plays like Quake, Unreal or Painkiller?? NO! Because this is not the speed of the Battlefield franchise. It was meant to be slower, a little bit more realistic, but still somewhat arcade. it was not ment to be slower , the slower games that most people dislike playing is SWAT games , those super realism games , why not EA brings those elements from SWAT , well clearly realism is boring.. Yes sometimes is fun , but in public games not in serious competition games.

There was a lot of competition in BF1942. There are a lot of clans who would like to compete in epic military style battles, and the whole BF2 game is geared towards this style of gameplay - only squadhopping is what destroys the whole idea. not true , most clans enjoy squad hopping very highly , huge part of the teamwork , and tactics being used, one of the core tactic in every map/game (mainly in 5v5 infantry) is the squad hopping. (trust me , try it you would see, play a match within a experienced clan in a 5v5)


I know how BF2 plays in clanwars - a simple spawn-scheme and then only reflexes, no tactics! That's the primary reason I want squadhopping removed, but I don't mind public gameplay improving either. clearly that is not true, if u seriously think so why do you sound like you never played any competition games with *Experienced* clans? , if you were playing with an *Experienced* you would know that tactics are taken very serious , and made very organized , your just giving a guess. I know my clan for sure use a program to help us plan tactics , we plan for hours , with using “squad hopping as the core tactic” its in every map , or gameply type , majority of 5v5 ;squad hopping is the core factor in pretty much the top clans in the 5v5 action leagues/ladders.Why don’t you just try to play with a clan and see for urself and stop saying things u not sure about..

The clans who want to play a game that has nothing to do with the original speed and intention of the whole Battlefield series they should look out for some mod instead.

I hate these clanwar evenings right now: You set up the server, someone has connectionproblems, another one suddenly disconnects, another one's headset has a feedback loop, but finally after going to the toilet and getting something to drink (30 minutes later or something) you have 16 people ready for action. And thanks to squadhopping, sometimes 10 minutes later everythings over.... WHERE'S THE FUN HERE??
again I’m not talking about crappy public gaming servers, there is fun in competition with the squad hopping

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

if they offer , which they don’t , and not many people would want to use mods

That's not my problem, that's not DICE's problem, this is the problem of the people who want to play 5vs5 infantry. BF2 isn't geared towards 5vs5 infantry.

it was not ment to be slower , the slower games that most people dislike playing is SWAT games , those super realism games , why not EA brings those elements from SWAT , well clearly realism is boring.. Yes sometimes is fun , but in public games not in serious competition games.

Well YOU might think "all competition players want it fast" but this is not true. That bunch of people you refer to, that only have reflexes and good aiming but no real "teamwork skills", should keep playing Quake or UT. BF1942 was not meant for them, BF:V wasn't meant for them and BF2 wasn't meant for them too. There's just that little exploit in the squadsystem that DICE overlooked which made the game look attractive to those people unfortunately for a longer period of time.

And BF2 isn't "realistic" after the patch. You can still "beam" people to ONE FIXED squadleader - is that realistic? You can still revive people by using shock paddles one time? Is this realistic? BF2 is a mixture of realism and arcade - and after V1.3 the mixture will be better IMHO.

not true , most clans enjoy squad hopping very highly , huge part of the teamwork , and tactics being used, one of the core tactic in every map/game (mainly in 5v5 infantry) is the squad hopping. (trust me , try it you would see, play a match within a experienced clan in a 5v5)

I have seen and played 5vs5 infantry matches. Looks like "Star Trek" to me, not like Battlefield. All of the time suddenly players pop out of other players, totally ridiculous!

And there ARE many clans looking forward to more epic battles. I don't say "most clans" but "many clans", I don't care if it's the majority.

clearly that is not true, if u seriously think so why do you sound like you never played any competition games with *Experienced* clans? , if you were playing with an *Experienced* you would know that tactics are taken very serious , and made very organized , your just giving a guess. I know my clan for sure use a program to help us plan tactics , we plan for hours , with using “squad hopping as the core tactic” its in every map , or gameply type , majority of 5v5 ;squad hopping is the core factor in pretty much the top clans in the 5v5 action leagues/ladders.Why don’t you just try to play with a clan and see for urself and stop saying things u not sure about..

Why don't you look at my signature to see that I AM playing in a clan actually?!

Of course everyone uses squadhopping as the "core" tactic, because you would always loose if you don't. It totally dominates all tactics. You cannot choose if you like that style of gameplay or not - you MUST do it this way, or you loose!

With V1.3 you won't be able to rely on this cheap trick as the core of all tactics any more, you'll have to replace it by "real" (oh no I said the "R" word again) field tactics.

there is fun in competition with the squad hopping

For you, but not for every competition player. Not everyone enjoys wars that are over in a few minutes because of the absurdly high pace of the game.