Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

[bitvomit]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

I normally don't bad mouth Forum members but the people that are fiercely complaining about the squad hopping change have more than once shown what type of players they are.
They're always the first ones to complain about EA removing some Exploit or "unintended" use of something because they were the ones using them.

It's totally clear that DICE never intended Squad hopping to become such a major "tactic" let alone even exist.
Squad hopping has nothing to do with someone's ability to 'play the game'. Playing the game consists of using your character to beat the enemy using weapons and vehicles. Not exploiting a game mechanic that exists outside the battlefield.

I couldn't be happier about this Fix.

100% correct. Anyone who says that squad hopping takes skill and this and that bs is just a ****ing idiot. Like I always say, enjoy the exploits and use them to their fullest while they last. They will be gone before you know it and when they are gone you will be the one who looks like a fool for defending them to the bitter end. When was the last time you seen someone on these forums saying that C4 chucking takes skill? You don't because it's gone and they have moved on to the next exploit. Anyone who whines and whines about how great these exploits are for gameplay and how they should not be removed are just wasting totalbf2.com's bandwidth and hard drive space with their stupidity because DICE WILL remove it. This is not TFC or Quake where exploits count as "tricks" or "skills".

Anyone who agrees with LoganX should quote his post in each post they make in this thread so we can pound it into these idiots heads.

[LoganX]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

OK...Now that the B-Day party's done. Let's see where we're at.

Thanks to WarGimp for at least showing that my side of the debate (and my style of gameplay) is alot stronger than others would think.

""Squad, divide and form two squads"
The only consession I will make here is that it is a relevant and legit tactic to Split a Squad to make 2. However the comp type players have taken it too far by being able to Spawn (teleport) an entire team in a handfull of seconds by squad hopping. This is the part that was not intended. The exploiting of the game mechanic.

I would be perfectly happy with Gimps suggestion of server side options for this kind of stuff. However, I believe leaving certian things as options would divide the BF Community even more than it currently is.

As I've said, the comp teams will always find ways to win. Removing this feature will do nothing but improve Public Play.

[bitvomit]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

taking out squad hopping will kill this game

Then go sell your copy on ebay. We don't want your whiny ass anymore.

As I've said, the comp teams will always find ways to win. Removing this feature will do nothing but improve Public Play.

Yep, I agree. Unforunately for all of the competitive players out there, pub players outnumber you by a ridiculous margin. If you want your phony bologna gimmick cheats that badly then go form your own league so you can circle jerk with all of your buddies. No one is forcing you comp guys to play with us on pubs and yet it is you that come into pubs acting like you are gods among men because of that tag in front of your name. Go appeal to the sun gods or something so that DICE will give you your cheats back cause we don't care LOLOLO!

[LoganX]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

^^^That's against the EULA as well.
I've got some threads over at BF2Rankedservers about Ebay'ing accounts.

[WarGimp]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

""Squad, divide and form two squads"
The only consession I will make here is that it is a relevant and legit tactic to Split a Squad to make 2. However the comp type players have taken it too far by being able to Spawn (teleport) an entire team in a handfull of seconds by squad hopping. This is the part that was not intended. The exploiting of the game mechanic.

I don't think that argument is all that valid. There's nothing stopping players from making new squads and joining them while they are still alive in preperation for the next spawn. It's doesn't mean "everyone become an SL so you can teleport freely into battle".

In while commanding in pubs, I've seen instances where all the good players are on the same (non-hopping) squad. It's more useful to me if they split into 2, 3 man squads so I can command them to hit/defend more places at the same time.

Side note: I was doing the command thing last night and had a couple instances of annoying hoppers. The battle was fairly balanced and we were all having a good time until one enemy squad started hopping like crazy. Trying to put 'em down was like playing wack-a-mole. Drop one and two more spawned. Constantly. I'm kinda used to seeing it, so I just groaned and kept commanding (after advising my team that they had to be more on-gaurd 'cause of the hoppers), but I saw lots of griping from the general player base... uincluding some people on their team. BTW, we still won by basicly camping the farq outta the area wherever those hoppers happened to be (I was watching for 'em the whole time). In the next round, 3 of the 6 guys in the hop squad were kicked do to blatent TKing for vehicles. Interesting insight into the player mentality, I thought.

[bitvomit]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

No more squadhopping is just lame, its what gave this game its fast gameplay and I'd hate to see it removed... Dropping humvees?!?! No further comment...


offtopic:
Im wondering... did they make this game for pubbers only?? Take a look at this conversation here: http://forum.eagames.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=22280
Was laughing my ass of about the noobs who cried that the guy had no skill etc.. One even said he only cared about his score ( in clanmatches whahahahah)

If you want fast gameplay then go play a DM game. There's plenty for you to choose. All games are made for pubbers. Period. Why do you think the vast majority of servers in your server browser aren't locked? So what if clans run some of them, what's the ratio of clan members to pubbers in these servers? I rest my case. "pro" gamers are always the minority in any game. If you're that concerned about the rules for supposedly competitive games changing constantly then go play chess. The rules for chess have not changed in a long long time.

^^^That's against the EULA as well.
I've got some threads over at BF2Rankedservers about Ebay'ing accounts.

That was the point, to permanantly remove idiots like him from the game :)

[WarGimp]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

Too damned much hostility on both sides.

Some things to keep in mind:
- Some people will only play games that allow them to have constant entertainment. If there's a gap in the action, they lose interest. If the squad hopping hole is closed, BF2 would become a game they'd hate.
- Other people would be more than happy to see those people go.
- Removing squad hopping would change the strategic layer of game play quite a bit. The playing the SL role well would become vastly more important. Knowing how to get places quickly without getting dead would also be a key skill. I like the sound of that, personally.

- We still don't know if this report is even true or not. Neither side of the debate should be getting to worked up over it.

Quick aside:
If you're a skilled player who claims to not be worried about points 'n stuff, I've got a challenge for ya. Try playing as SL to the absolute best of your abilities. Put a little work into gathering and maintaining a squad. Don't leave the position. Stick with it no matter what. See if you can get some good stuff happening. If you do this and do it well, you're going to be ahead of the game when/if the hole is closed.

[bitvomit]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

To put it simply and elegantly, the squad leader is a leader, not a deserter. Another thing that people have to realize is that your fun is not always fun for other people. Yeah, your squad is basically the virtual embodiment of the Terminator which is cool because you are impossible to kill. You're having all that fun giving people hell at the carrier but the players that you are constantly killing aren't having fun at all. Then when they find you and kill you thinking the job is done there you are again. This is just having fun at the expense of other players. Squad hopping makes the gameplay much faster for the squad but it makes the game grind to a halt for the victims.

[Sadistic_1]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

I'm not the one crying about how I'll quit if they make a change in the mechanics. I'm also not crying about the current state of things.

I'm interested in the debate and do feel that the game play of BF2 would be strengthened by removing hopping/cycling.

No it doesn't. I see/hear complaints about it perty frequently and mostly from casual types. This isn't to say that some clanners wouldn't also like to see the purposed fix. Even CAL has a suprising number of members saying they'd be happy to see hoppin go away.

That's the flavor I got from your posts. Saying that the game is being wreaked by whiners 'n such. Obviously, if the game is wrecked, you'd stop playing, wouldn't you?

The group in question isn't even very vocal. We see a few spoty threads about it, but nothing like the "I hate planes/armour/claymores" threads we see. Certainly not even close to the anti-noobtoob and C4 lobbing threads. If Dice makes this change, I suspect it has more to do with them wanting to get the game back to what they invisioned. As a designer who's done lots of mod and some proffesional work, I can fully understand this. I've made unpopular design calls that made my community cry for awhile, only to have them eventually understand that the implementation really did help things out over all.

As for fixing the teamtag bug, it's an unrelated issue and they've got some good heads workin on it this time around, by all reports. With luck we'll see it go away once and for all.

That doesn't mean they can't do more refinements while they're at it.
I don't have to make any points. All the points in the world have already been made in this thread and many like it.

WOW you floor me.

Yet to say I'd ever quit this game, but you keep throwing it my way and I'm one of the few around here that is quite comfortable with the "current state" of the game, so guess it would be you that's crying about the state of the game.

The "flavour (you're Canadian aren't you?) of your posts" crap. Gimmie a break. Your a mature individual Gimp, but your reading way too much into my posts and drawing some pretty weak conclusions. I don't whine about the whiners, the state of the game, or about quitting. I'm happy with the game the way it is other than the actual bugs. Even then I don't post on here about it.

It's getting out of hand with the amount of people complaining about the aspects of the game. If you don't see it, you must be part of the group...and yeah they are vocal. A certain individual on here keeps referring to this as an exploit and yet it's nothing of the sort. Maybe EA/Dice didn't envision the squad leaders that way, but they've had almost a year to see this thing through, and squad hopping has been around since the game first came out. Calling it an exploit now is just the crowd moving from one complaint to the next. Fix one problem with gameplay, create another is their motto. It's getting old. I may use sarcasm to make my points but they are valid. Time to take a break from the "fix to my way of playing" and move onto something else.

How is fixing the red tag bug an unrelated issue when my arguement is basically, fix the real problems then worry about the gameplay. I want EA/Dice to put maximum effort into fixing those kinds of problems first and foremost before even cateering to any of the other issues like "squad-hopping" and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my wishes. So what makes these types of requests "unrelated issues"?

Because it goes against what you want...that's why.

[WarGimp]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

WOW you floor me.

I do hear that from time to time... usually (and preferably) from cute young ladies tho.
:p

Yet to say I'd ever quit this game, but you keep throwing it my way and I'm one of the few around here that is quite comfortable with the "current state" of the game, so guess it would be you that's crying about the state of the game.

Sorry to confuse the issue. I didn't mean to imply directly that it's your stance. I'm refering to the attitude that gets displayed in general. I ain't cryin 'bout nothin. Have you seen me say "OMFG, hoppers are de fagz!" or some crap like that?

As posted (several times) my interest is mostly academic.

The "flavour (you're Canadian aren't you?) of your posts" crap. Gimmie a break.

Your first clue to my Canuckhood should have been the location tag right over there
<----
I'll try not to hold my national superiority over you though. :p

Your a mature individual Gimp,

LIAR!

but your reading way too much into my posts and drawing some pretty weak conclusions. I don't whine about the whiners, the state of the game, or about quitting. I'm happy with the game the way it is other than the actual bugs. Even then I don't post on here about it.

Good, I'll be happy to stand corrected.

It's getting out of hand with the amount of people complaining about the aspects of the game. If you don't see it, you must be part of the group...and yeah they are vocal.

There's lots of griping about different things. There's not that much about this particular issue... just a rather tough argument. If you lump everyone who has a bone to pick with something in the game... well, that's prolly 99% of the player base.

There's also a big difference between wanting to discuss an issue and whining about it. If you can't tell the difference... well... um... that must suck.

A certain individual on here keeps referring to this as an exploit and yet it's nothing of the sort. Maybe EA/Dice didn't envision the squad leaders that way, but they've had almost a year to see this thing through, and squad hopping has been around since the game first came out. Calling it an exploit now is just the crowd moving from one complaint to the next.

You could say exactly the same thing about noobtoobing and C4 lobbing. Lots of players got all ticked off when those "exploits" were removed, but I think most of us can agree that it's been better for overall gameplay.

Fix one problem with gameplay, create another is their motto. It's getting old. I may use sarcasm to make my points but they are valid. Time to take a break from the "fix to my way of playing" and move onto something else.

Fixing these things are hard. I don't know if you've every attemtped to debug anything major, but believe me it's not a simple thing. Nor is hammering gameplay dynamics into the form you want 'em. Dice obviously had a vision for how the game is supposed to flow. They keep nudging BF2 in that direction and I feel it's gotten closer to what they wanted with every patch. Er, aside from obvious setbacks.

How is fixing the red tag bug an unrelated issue when my arguement is basically, fix the real problems then worry about the gameplay. I want EA/Dice to put maximum effort into fixing those kinds of problems first and foremost before even cateering to any of the other issues like "squad-hopping" and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my wishes. So what makes these types of requests "unrelated issues"?

There's only so much work that you can put into one aspect. the problem to-date with the red/blue bug is that they thought they'd fixed it. It's a hard one to test for since it's almost impossible to make happen. It's really random. Issues like that make me wanna scream and cry and through poop at the walls... and I'm not even debuggin it! It's a nighmare.

Anyway, point is that the fix is likely to be 2 lines of code or a single pointer that's being overwriten. What they need is one very talented guy to study the crap outta the problem. That leaves a bunch of others to work on other things. Like gameplay.

Because it goes against what you want...that's why.

The same thing could be said on either side of any gameplay related debate. It's about as effective and convincing an argument as "I know you are, but what am I?".
:p

[JonnyMacFred102]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

WTF why did they take away squad hopping? I liked that!

Oh yeah i forgot. EA only listens to the whiners and bitchers on the forums who can't take advantage of squad hopping. Damn them, and damn EA. I am in total shock at how much they suck, it's just getting worse and worse. They are taking EVERY last bit of fun out of the game because they listen to all the whiners who suck at playing.

[bitvomit]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

A certain individual on here keeps referring to this as an exploit and yet it's nothing of the sort. Maybe EA/Dice didn't envision the squad leaders that way, but they've had almost a year to see this thing through, and squad hopping has been around since the game first came out. Calling it an exploit now is just the crowd moving from one complaint to the next. Fix one problem with gameplay, create another is their motto. It's getting old. I may use sarcasm to make my points but they are valid. Time to take a break from the "fix to my way of playing" and move onto something else.

How is fixing the red tag bug an unrelated issue when my arguement is basically, fix the real problems then worry about the gameplay. I want EA/Dice to put maximum effort into fixing those kinds of problems first and foremost before even cateering to any of the other issues like "squad-hopping" and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my wishes. So what makes these types of requests "unrelated issues"?

Because it goes against what you want...that's why.

Listen, this isn't Street Fighter 2 where an unintended feature becomes standard. DICE did not envision squad leaders to be used this way. If it was to be part of the game then everyone would have known HOW to do it on the first day instead of a few wise ones knowing the mystical rites of passage. The crowd moving from one complaint to the next is exactly what the customers paid for. The game has defects and we want it fixed. Fixing one problem to create another is part of game development. As "hardcore" of a gamer as you sound I would imagine that you knew the ropes by now but apparantly you don't.

You want DICE to put "maximum" effort into fixing the most important issues yet you fail to realize that they have a huge to-do list of bugs that need fixing that are prioritized. They made the damn game and they know what's wrong with it and what needs to be fixed in what order. You do realize that EA/DICE employees are 9-5 corporate slaves like everyone else right? They ARE putting maximum effort into the game. Their lives revolve around BF2 more than anyone on these forums put together. You my friend, are ignorant.

They are taking EVERY last bit of fun out of the game because they listen to all the whiners who suck at playing.

BF2 is an open ended game. There's tons of things you can be doing besides exploiting one miniscule feature. You whine about how they are taking all the fun out of the game yet you will still be here after the dust settles and squad hopping is gone if they remove it.

[LoganX]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

They are taking EVERY last bit of fun out of the game because they listen to all the whiners who suck at playing.

Once again someone who's being selfish.
Your fun is not the same as my fun.
Just like CS and Quake players fun is not the same as (old School) BF players fun is.

I've said it before in other threads, the introduction of global stats has practically invited all the stats-whoring type of players from those games into the BF community.
Those games are notorious for people finding "unintended exploits" in the game.
Now that there are so many of those people here in BF, the Classic BF'ers like myself want to make sure that BF retains the difference in gameplay that set it apart from CS/Quake/UT.

All of the things that have been changed were done so to maintain the BF feel of the game.

[WarGimp]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

WTF why did they take away squad hopping? I liked that!

Oh yeah i forgot. EA only listens to the whiners and bitchers on the forums who can't take advantage of squad hopping. Damn them, and damn EA. I am in total shock at how much they suck, it's just getting worse and worse. They are taking EVERY last bit of fun out of the game because they listen to all the whiners who suck at playing.

Urgh.
Nerf bats and coconuts, this is debate on the internet.
:p
Did you even bother reading any of the posts made thus far, or are you just reading the title and skippin to the end?

One of the most amusing things I've seeing here is the number of comments about whiners. I honestly don't see anyone whining who's posting in favor of getting rid of squad hopping. I'm seeing alot of people whining against it.

whine ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hwn, wn)
v. whined, whin·ing, whines
v. intr.

1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.
2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.

dis·cuss ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-sks)
tr.v. dis·cussed, dis·cuss·ing, dis·cuss·es

1. To speak with another or others about; talk over.
2. To examine or consider (a subject) in speech or writing.

I'd hope the difference would be obvious.
Most of the folks in favor of the change are typing out well consitered and rationally supported posts. Those against are mostly just namecalling.

[JonnyMacFred102]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

Urgh.
Nerf bats and coconuts, this is debate on the internet.
:p
Did you even bother reading any of the posts made thus far, or are you just reading the title and skippin to the end?

One of the most amusing things I've seeing here is the number of comments about whiners. I honestly don't see anyone whining who's posting in favor of getting rid of squad hopping. I'm seeing alot of people whining against it.

[/LIST]I'd hope the difference would be obvious.
Most of the folks in favor of the change are typing out well consitered and rationally supported posts. Those against are mostly just namecalling.

Well, now that they said it was being removed, yeah. What did you expect? Most people DO like squad hopping (EAUK poll, 78% of the voters did not want squad hopping to be removed). But i have seen a few whiners complain about it.