This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

[Leki]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Again these whiners. I mean be honest guys: you just suck. Don't try to blame dice for your "skills". It's all about you. Why do you whine?
Is it because you can't hit anything with the PKM but others do? and so you think its overpowered? Is it because you can't hit them with the sniper rifles?
I doesn't matter what dice does you will always be whining. That sucks about the community which is domminated by noobs. And as somebody said it before if you think its overpowered why don't you use it instead of trying to revive enemies? This is lame, common!

Just wanted to add that you guys are a pathetic bunch of losers! See ya on the battlefield, with my beloved PKM ;-)

losers!

The reason people are posting about it is because it doesn't make the game balanced....its not whining....i use the PKM now too as its overpowered and i kill troops at all ranges with ease. however unlike you i dont think "omg i got so much skill, i own everyone with my PKM"....i think "heh this is stupid" as i'm mowing them all down.

[ILuvDaKnob]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Ok, I am all happy and joyus that n00b tubers are gone, and some of the more lame crap in BF2 has been resolved/removed. Joy joy, horrah horrah.

Guess what? There's a new n00b tube class. Its got nothing to do with a tank or a SRAW or any of those large explosive projectile tubes. Know what it is?

Support.


Suprised? Yeah, so was I when I found out. Get this, the PKM does as much damage as an SVD, and it has full auto, 100 rounds, and is now accurate as ****. (insert S word here, as we must be careful of the 12 year olds who see or hear such obscene language, while they shoot people and play their war games.)

But wait, there has to be a downside to being support right? Lets find out.

He Has infinite ammo, can spam hand grenades till the cows come home, has a SVD with full auto, has BODY armor for gods sakes, and doesn't require a tripod. Oh, he also has less endurance for running than the lighter classes. Maybe it has to do with that large machine gun that he carries that has a lot of recoil. Oh and lets not forget all the ammo on his back. But hey, he doesn't care does he? Apparently holding that heavy, bulky machine gun that has large amounts of recoil doesn't hinder him from walking AT you while firing and kill you. Im SO happy Dice/EA made support useful again. . . Oh wait. .

Anywho. .

I fully comprehend that the support weapons were crap before 1.2. I am aware of this in its entirety. I am also aware that AA was crap before 1.2, as am I aware that practically no one flies choppers or jets anymore because there's almost no point to it if the server you're on has at least one guy sitting in a stinger. Flares? Thats nice. Evaisive manuvers? You'd might as well grab your rip cord if you hear tone and your flares aren't ready.

I've used the PKM, the MG36, all the rest. Some people might have the gall to say I am somehow bitter about dying to them now. You know what? I am. Why? Its TOO damned easy. I sat in a corner on Karkand and peppered maybe 12 guys off their little spawn hill and no one was afk on their team. That was of course, 80 rounds later of pure spray.

Oh and please, none of that "But now its more realistic!" or "Oh but I've fired (insert random gun here that random trigger happy grunt in the Military used) and its nice and accurate and lethal!" BF2 isn't a reality game. Its an arcade game. We all know that. I am tired of getting shot by a dude that prones, fires off maybe 8 rounds, kills me from days away, then gets up again with the quickness to just prone for a second elsewhere.

You remember those guys that were 24/7 assault? That would ask for ammo once they used maybe two RGs? That were paranoid to be without an RG for any given moment? That would bunny hop all around you while they were reloading their tube instead of whipping out the bullets? Guess where they went?

GG.

Would you like a little more whine with your cheese?

[zymyo]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

In ww2 the mg42s were massive, I can't believe he thinks guns like these are unacurate, they are deadly as f*ck.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I've discussed this ad nauseum on the GameFAQs forums, so I may as well make my first post about it here.

The PKM while standing has a deviation of .3. The G3 while prone has a deviation of .32. An LMG is more accurate on single shot (some people say it's wrong to use an LMG on single shot but if it's possible in game people are going to use it) than an assault rifle. And yet there are some people that don't find a flaw in this?

The PKM while prone has a deviation of .08. The SVD/Type-88/M95 pre-1.2 had a prone deviation of .08. And this seems perfectly balanced to some of you?

The LMGs, for whatever reason, do not gain a bonus (or penalty, depending on how you look at it) from using the ironsights, as the video demonstrated.

Also take into consideration this: The SAW has a deviation of somewhere around .21 while prone which, while accurate, is almost the same accuracy as an M16 while prone. Standing up, forget it. You're looking at a deviation of .9 on the first shot, which is a HELL of a lot worse than the SMGs even. All the default LMGs suffer this maladie. Now you take a look a the two unlocks and all of a sudden you have weapons accurate enough while standing and crouched to be assault rifles, and accurate enough while prone to be sniper rifles. This defeats the purpose of ever using the default LMGs, which is something no other class can attest to. It makes the unlockable LMGs truly upgrades to the defaults.

I've agreed with everything DigitalBoy has ever said on this matter both on this forum and GFAQs, and I also agree with everything PlaneWhore and SK have said. Mostly that the default LMGs are perfect just the way they are, and if the PKM and MG36 had their accuracies brought down to equal the accuracies of the defaults then all would be well. Pre-patch, all the LMGs were equal in accuracy, with the MG36 being slightly better, and despite that people still chose the PKM because they preferred a bigger punch per bullet than a higher rate of fire. Now I NEVER see people use the default LMGs since the PKM is so vastly superior to them, and pretty much any other gun in the game for that matter. If that alone doesn't scream 'overpowered' then nothing short of a soldier class carrying a handheld tactical nuke would.

Example - the other day on Karkand when I was testing out the new PKM (because after looking at the stats I couldn't believe they would have made a gun that powerful as accurate as the numbers seemed to have dictated and I had to test to see if it was a hoax...it wasn't), I had three different types of encounters all while I was trying to take back the square, which I almost managed to do single-handedly. I came down from the Suburbs and while I was near the bottom of the hill (near the water fountain, I believe) I saw someone prone up on the ledge near the flag, right by that little wooden plank. I drop down, place three quick single-shots into him, and dispatch him. 100% accuracy. Mind you he was little more than a blob on the screen at the time. As I rush the square, I notice a sniper was standing near the tree so I came up right behind him and fired from the hip, killing him. A soldier (he had an AR, don't remember if he was medic or assault) came around between the rocks and the wall and began shooting at me, hitting me once or twice, so I turned and let him have it - still while walking all around mind you. After he was gone I prone and see some guys coming from the hotel, and I hold down the trigger, dispatching those two guys as well. So that's one long range kill, two short range, two medium range. I finally got killed when one of the first guys I killed respawned and got me in the back while I was still shooting some guys coming down the road from the hotel.

I'm not telling you this because I have l33t skills (because I don't), I'm telling you this to confirm what PW said earlier about it being such a versatile weapon. Were I to have tried such a thing with an AR I almost certainly wouldn't have gotten as far as I did, and moreover I would have had to reload at least once in the meantime.

So I really fail to see how someone can say that a weapon that is more accurate while standing than some ARs while prone, more accurate while prone than anything but a sniper rifle, has full auto capabilites, does more damage than anything but a sniper rifle, has a 100 round magazine, unlimited ammo, AND the soldier carrying it wears body armour, isn't in the least bit overpowered.

All you need is an LAW with it and you're set.


~Wolfgang

[unununium]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I really don't know why DICE changed the PKM. It was fine before, and now it's overpowered. Were people actually complaining about the PKM being underpowered before the patch?

[WickedDevil]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I really don't know why DICE changed the PKM. It was fine before, and now it's overpowered. Were people actually complaining about the PKM being underpowered before the patch?

I wouldn't be surprised. I cannot count how many times I got seriously irritated by the lacking of MG power in BF2, but I still hold my belief that they've OVER powered the MGs now.

[xZeler8]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

the support class needs to revert back to how it was pre-1.2...plain and simple...support weapons aren't "kill every moving fckin thing around" weapons...they are for laying cover fire for the movement of your fellow troops, or in this case your squad...there is absolutely no reason a pkm should trump a sniper in a 250-300 yd shootout, that's retarded...the aa is fine in the new patch, like has been mentioned many times before, it seperates the pilots from the boys and finally the pilots will be able to help their teams by actually utilizing that asset...

but to sum it up...support class = retarded to the point of spoiling the game...i've only played support twice since the patch, both times i picked up a pkm (was out of ammo in my spawn kit)...and both times i laid out atleast 10 kills before being killed, and that wasn't spawn camping or any other nonsense, that was out in the middle of the open just shooting people as they came up...it definately needs to be changed back

[xZeler8]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

All you need is an LAW with it and you're set.


~Wolfgang

hahahahah...pre-patch of course :laugh:

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

well may i suggest that when the round starts every one meets in middle of map.... we ahve a tea party ..... and change the game name to SiLLYFIELD...

awesome, i will see you there.

[Bkelso8]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

the support class needs to revert back to how it was pre-1.2...plain and simple...support weapons aren't "kill every moving fckin thing around" weapons...but to sum it up...support class = retarded to the point of spoiling the game...i've only played support twice since the patch, both times i picked up a pkm (was out of ammo in my spawn kit)...and both times i laid out atleast 10 kills before being killed, and that wasn't spawn camping or any other nonsense, that was out in the middle of the open just shooting people as they came up...it definately needs to be changed back

Okay, please, someone, post some examples of post-patch games where one of the top 5 players on either side is support. PLEASE.

It's just not happening people. Not as far as I can see, anyway..

[PHPT]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Okay, please, someone, post some examples of post-patch games where one of the top 5 players on either side is support. PLEASE.

It's just not happening people. Not as far as I can see, anyway..

(Points to profile) 13% of the time in the top 3. :P


To rehash some points...

1.) Default LMGs were just as accurate? Yes, but the high ROF of the Chinese gun and the SAW kicked recoil up REALLY fast. The RPK didn't do damage as quickly. There's a reason most people considered the PKM one of the best unlocks.

2.) More jet crying, you have a box to tell you which stingers are armed, the range on the stingers got NERFED, use the chaingun and shoot the gunners, NOOB.

3.) PKM prone is too accurate, it needed a buff because support was so gimped against long-range targets, especially with the sniper buff. However, it needed to be brought up to G36-ish accuracy, nothing more or less.

[SK]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

In ww2 the mg42s were massive, I can't believe he thinks guns like these are unacurate, they are deadly as f*ck.

I used the MG3 (basically MG42 in 7.62 NATO, some minor changes) in real life. It is a devastating weapon, but unlike in BF2
-you can´t drop prone in 0.5s with it and have instant extreme accuracy.
-you can´t fire it with any real accuracy from standing or crouching position.

While BF2 certainly is no simulation, it should be loosely oriented on real life weapons, as this achieves an amount of basic gameplay balance. (Along the lines of "If lmgs would be as powerful as in BF2 in real life, there would be no assault rifles used anymore, cause lmgs could do everything better")

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

I used the MG3 (basically MG42 in 7.62 NATO, some minor changes) in real life. It is a devastating weapon, but unlike in BF2
-you can´t drop prone in 0.5s with it and have instant extreme accuracy.
-you can´t fire it with any real accuracy from standing or crouching position.

While BF2 certainly is no simulation, it should be loosely oriented on real life weapons, as this achieves an amount of basic gameplay balance. (Along the lines of "If lmgs would be as powerful as in BF2 in real life, there would be no assault rifles used anymore, cause lmgs could do everything better")

Well, if we want to get real life, then there is alot of other tweaks that need to be made to the game.... But we don't want to get into all that?

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

the support class needs to revert back to how it was pre-1.2...plain and simple...support weapons aren't "kill every moving fckin thing around" weapons...they are for laying cover fire for the movement of your fellow troops, or in this case your squad...there is absolutely no reason a pkm should trump a sniper in a 250-300 yd shootout, that's retarded...the aa is fine in the new patch, like has been mentioned many times before, it seperates the pilots from the boys and finally the pilots will be able to help their teams by actually utilizing that asset...

but to sum it up...support class = retarded to the point of spoiling the game...i've only played support twice since the patch, both times i picked up a pkm (was out of ammo in my spawn kit)...and both times i laid out atleast 10 kills before being killed, and that wasn't spawn camping or any other nonsense, that was out in the middle of the open just shooting people as they came up...it definately needs to be changed back

Support is for killing. The military doesn't make weapons without giving them an ability to hit their targets...

LMG's are "KIll anything that gets in their site" weapons....

[DrJambo]

Re: This has got to be a goddamned JOKE.

Didn't realise this thead was another support kit thread due to the title. :o

Anyway, all I feel is the newfound accuracy of the support unlocks have to be brought into line with the currently well balanced vanilla support guns.

No need to reiterate anything here, as Wolfgang's pretty much spot on with his analysis (post #139).