PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

[[SAJ]Sentinel]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Shame on you dice for being so ignorant, and shame on me for being so damn good.

Erm, he's only failing to realize one small detail. AA improvements have nothing to do with him, and his skills. It was not done because of him or colony or whoever else.

It was done because almost everyone could rack up at least 30-40 kills in a round (especially with a bomber), with very few deaths - even if AA sites were manned. The best ones could rack up 70+ deaths with 0 deaths. Especially when raping carrier on Wake, which was not able to defend itself.

Yes, I've seen people using AA to shoot down planes. The only problem is that they'd die 15 times before they'd manage to take a plane down.

[Kattspya]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

It was done because almost everyone could rack up at least 30-40 kills in a round (especially with a bomber), with very few deaths - even if AA sites were manned. The best ones could rack up 70+ deaths with 0 deaths. Especially when raping carrier on Wake, which was not able to defend itself.

That's just not true. Not by a long shot. A decent pilot can rack up something like that without baseraping if he gets to fly unimpeded. The normal pilot can hardly hit a base with his bombs. His score will be something like 15-4 when the round is over.

[IVfluids]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

....

It wasn't him who got the planes nerfed, it was the people that wouldn't shoot other planes down with their planes that got them nerfed. People that only wanted to learn how to bomb and leave the other 50% of the jet unused. And the fact that they made it so that any noob could just drop bombs all day and get top score, just like any noob with a medic/ammo pack.

And, as much as I figured, the jets aren't really all that nerfed. While it is easier to shoot the idiots with bad flying habits down, they didn't change much of anything for some pilots. I already had a pretty good success rate with the missiles in jet vs jet situations, now they just made the chance of my missiles hitting even more likely for me.

Any smart bomber already knows that to increase his survivability, you just need to keep your jet about 380 units above the ground AA and they can't lock on to you. Dip down into range for a second and drop your bombs from way up high (ala Desert Combat) and they never hear or see you coming until it is too late. It just made some people change the way they do things in order to keep on doing the same old things.

If any pilots are having a hard time with this patch, it is probably because they never really were put in a position to be forced to learn how to evade other jets (because most jets just didn't bother dogfighting) and they are having a hard time adapting to something new. But I can guarantee you, that in about one months time, when enough people have it all figured out, there is going to be a lot of bitching from the ground pounders about the jets being over powered again.

Here is a funny one for 2 seat bombers, I haven't tested it out on this patch, but it used to be a good laugh in the previous patches... if you fly over a ground AA site and they try to lock on to you, switch seats into the secondary position before it locks on. It will just keep trying to acquire a lock but never lock on to you until you go back into the pilots seat. You at least want to make sure that you can drift out of lock range before you get back into the seat, do don't do it when you just approach the site.

[TriggerHappy2005]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Hey IVFluids, is that Easy E in your sig?

[[SAJ]Sentinel]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

That's just not true. Not by a long shot. A decent pilot can rack up something like that without baseraping if he gets to fly unimpeded. The normal pilot can hardly hit a base with his bombs. His score will be something like 15-4 when the round is over.

You might have difference experiences, then.

I have seem numerous times bomber pilots who would get 30-40 kills, without any trouble, and any dogfight.

When I'd get behind their tail, they'd kick out flares, run towards the airstrip, and bail out when close - then go back to airstrip, and board F15/Su30 when it spawns again. They'd take off, get few kills, and bail out again. I saw this most often on Daqing Oilfields (but then again, I played that map quite often).

I was kind of confused when I saw it first time, but I have to give them credit for neat tactic :)

Now, if we're talking about people who had no exprerience in flying bombers whatsoever - then yes, they probably couldn't get 30-40 kills.

But "normal" pilots (as in "can get from point A to point B, can't dogfight, but can drop bombs on target or in close vicinity of it") could do it.

[IVfluids]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Hey IVFluids, is that Easy E in your sig?

Hell yah.

[Kattspya]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

You might have difference experiences, then.

I have seem numerous times bomber pilots who would get 30-40 kills, without any trouble, and any dogfight.

When I'd get behind their tail, they'd kick out flares, run towards the airstrip, and bail out when close - then go back to airstrip, and board F15/Su30 when it spawns again. They'd take off, get few kills, and bail out again. I saw this most often on Daqing Oilfields (but then again, I played that map quite often).

I was kind of confused when I saw it first time, but I have to give them credit for neat tactic :)

Now, if we're talking about people who had no exprerience in flying bombers whatsoever - then yes, they probably couldn't get 30-40 kills.

But "normal" pilots (as in "can get from point A to point B, can't dogfight, but can drop bombs on target or in close vicinity of it") could do it.

I disagree with the last part of your post. But it may come down to different server habits.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Those so called "normal" pilots were always a machine gun target for me. I think the poster who though that "score race" was the problem behind the jet situation was right. It was a mentality problem for pilots to not to compete dogfighting, but bombing. LOL; I have yet to see a tank ignore another just to get more kills. Its actually sad. There are many more that use the planes for dogfights and as noble as they are try to "teach" those "pro" pilots a lesson but there arent that many of them to create a threat to the newbies in every server...

[imported_Gue]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

U know why noobs in AA should be able to down skilled pilots. Cos they simply should. I totally abandoned jets cos i felt it just was way too easy. I was getting so bored with constantly raping enemies and myself have nothing to fear.
With the right skills in jet u can kill many many enemies from all sorts. I didn't even use missiles on cobras or blackhawk, just gun them down. Since they don't get locked they don't realise what's coming to them.
It's simple, AA doesn't have so much to kill so it should be easier to use. Jets need more skill to use but also gives u more firepower. So i think it's perfectly ok for not so skilled players to down a jet. THose lock ons could use improvement still tho. Like make it only hit target when u keep locking on it. And make area that locks a target on your hud smaller . So u need to carefully keep that target locked. This would make dogfights also very fun i think. But as for now i'm happy enough that it can hit targets.
And the AA was as boring to use as it is in 1.2 but at least u can kill now something with it.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Hey!

Quoting my thread and not inviting me?

While I do believe the few pilots who were as sucessful as me were the direct cause of the plane nerf, most of that thread was as others have pointed out, nothing more than flamebait.

The state of AA is pathetic though, as I have confirmed. It can loop around an oil tower to infinity in a 1 yard square area at 5000 mph.

1. All of the skill has been taken out of dogfighting with the new missiles using a cannon is a waste of time, and the missiles allow a private on his first flight in a plane to take out an ace like me just by spotting me before I spot him.
2. No amount of skill or experience can save pilots from AA now, no manunever is capable of shaking AA and save flares, will always hit the plane they were fired at
3. The AA itself takes absolutely no skill to use or fire, unlike the AA of last patch which required consideration for a planes speed, distance, and trajectory.
4. The AA in combination with all of the things it had going for it last patch, now make it extremely overpowered, you'd really think DICE didn't test this thing with more than 2 players in a game at any given time.
5. The end result of all of this is pilots now have to play extremely submissive to stay alive, and as a result they can't score much more in the way of kills than a skilled infantry, and they don't have the additional benefits to the team like capturing flags, ressurecting players, providing ammo, ect.. ect.

I'm not biased either, I haven't flown in the 3 months that lead up to this patch, and I've been playing purely infantry. I'm just disgusted to finally see the whiners get their way after all of the emails and complaing to DICE. Pilots prey on the weak, and that is the reason as playing infantry I can count the number times I've been killed by a plane on one hand over the past 3-4 months. If you die to a pilot, it's not because they are overpowered, but rather you made a critical mistake.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Hey!

Quoting my thread and not inviting me?

While I do believe the few pilots who were as sucessful as me were the direct cause of the plane nerf, most of that thread was as others have pointed out, nothing more than flamebait.

The state of AA is pathetic though, as I have confirmed. It can loop around an oil tower to infinity in a 1 yard square area at 5000 mph.

1. All of the skill has been taken out of dogfighting with the new missiles using a cannon is a waste of time, and the missiles allow a private on his first flight in a plane to take out an ace like me just by spotting me before I spot him.
2. No amount of skill or experience can save pilots from AA now, no manunever is capable of shaking AA and save flares, will always hit the plane they were fired at
3. The AA itself takes absolutely no skill to use or fire, unlike the AA of last patch which required consideration for a planes speed, distance, and trajectory.
4. The AA in combination with all of the things it had going for it last patch, now make it extremely overpowered, you'd really think DICE didn't test this thing with more than 2 players in a game at any given time.
5. The end result of all of this is pilots now have to play extremely submissive to stay alive, and as a result they can't score much more in the way of kills than a skilled infantry, and they don't have the additional benefits to the team like capturing flags, ressurecting players, providing ammo, ect.. ect.

I'm not biased either, I haven't flown in the 3 months that lead up to this patch, and I've been playing purely infantry. I'm just disgusted to finally see the whiners get their way after all of the emails and complaing to DICE. Pilots prey on the weak, and that is the reason as playing infantry I can count the number times I've been killed by a plane on one hand over the past 3-4 months. If you die to a pilot, it's not because they are overpowered, but rather you made a critical mistake.

yesterday a guy named M4H Major Azzhole pulled out a 76-1 on Wake, I pulled out 46-1 (and I had a 4-1 KD in jet before), so it's really even that hard. I fail to see why you are complaining, because your invincible AA site really isn't hitting me that often.

[socalcaz]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

^^^^I agree, I have seen plenty of pilots dominate with the new AA. I am not one of them, yet. Not enough playing time with 1.2. My only problem with the new AA is the messed up animation. The missles look weird when they make contact, like they are flying sideways.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

I've already done countless rounds with over 80 kills and zeros deaths, and many more with only a couple of deaths attached to them, and this is for me after not flying for over three months. I wouldn't have considered these games special in 1.1, but now in 1.2 a special set of circumstances are required for me to reproduce these kind of results.

After these battles, I take a moment to reflect on the round and I find one or several of the following things is true:

1. I was on a stacked team and the enemy only controlled maybe one or two flags, so I had very little AA to worry about
2. I was on a map that is still friendly to planes in the respect that it doesn't have a bunch of AA sites bunched closely together, or it starts the round off with the enemy team having very few flags under their control.
3. The enemy pilots were inept, as in if they saw me they'd try to shoot me with the now worthless cannons.
4. The enemy pilots had no planes because we had captured the air base or stolen them.
5. I got lucky and got none of those "rogue" unavoidable missiles insta-hitting me.
6. The enemy team really really sucked.
7. No one on the enemy team was bothering to man AA sites. As in I'd go an entire game without a single missile lock warning alarm.

My latest 80+ kill scores aren't products fully based off of my skill to be successful in all situations as I was in 1.1, but rather they were a product of me exploiting or thriving in a situation that allows it. I notice the second I get an AA lock on me at random from a map away or a lot of enemy opponents are using the AA then I'm in trouble.

Some maps it's basically impossible to cover all of the AA sites, for example U.S side on Gulf of Oman. Other maps are just as bad, and of course, if the enemy owns only one or two flags they're easy to keep and handle on and rape with little danger to myself.

I have no problem surviving in a plane, I can do it for as long as I'd like, but then I'm playing submissively. At that point, I'm much more useful scoring my usual 25+ kills playing purely infantry, plus countless revives/support for my team and then my help creating a "wall" of soldiers to push the enemy back and capture multiple flags, which end up winning the game. Again, at that point I'm better serving my team on the ground as the whole point of airplanes was to destroy airborne vehicles such as planes/helis, and to kill enough enemies and quality targets to degrade the enemy tickets sufficiently and support your ground pounders. Now planes are stuck in a situation where they are forced to play ultra-defensive and most of the kills come from killing AA sites, which is completely worthless to your team and does nothing to help secure a victory, and since the ground AA is so incredible now the need for a pilot like me in the sky to create a bubble of air superiority is no long required.

My only wish is that DICE would make AA that takes skill to use. I made a proposal in another thread but the meat of it is a complete rework of the planes AA, and the ground based AA essentially have to keep a plane perfectly targeted and lined up for the missile to both lock, and continue to track the pilot. Because as of right now, the skill is gone from dogfighting, and any chimp in an AA launcher at the right time can take me down with no skill or practice or even luck required.

[BarkingSquirrel]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

First you complain that its too easy to shoot you down, then you say that you have no problem getting high scores as usual. So as it stands, one way or the other, you're a liar.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

I recommend you fully read my post before you reply, simpleton.