PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

[-(PK)-DarkIllusion]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

the guy has a point. the patch has made average pilots who HELPED their team by chasing away planes/bombin tanks when capping a flag,etc... suck now. not all of us pilots are concentrated on gaining the most ammount of points, like me... i want to get my w/l ratio up...(2.8 btw ) i guess you never played with a good pilot. now all i try to do first is get the AA down, which wastes time while i could be doing a bombing run on a caped flag... oh.. and Zatar is kinda unplayable now, have you seeen the AA glitch? OMG!!

[vbl]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

LOL Variable. You've already lost any debate if your best solution is "Pilot has a squad of snipers watching all AA sites for him". That is a huge waste of man power, period. I'm arguing that if I as a pilot am forced to kill an AA site, retreat, kill an AA site, repeat, in an ultra-defensive fashion I'm already dead weight to my team. Being forced to hunt the outskirts and pick of AA sites that respawn in 30 seconds or less and are constantly manned is completely worthless for my team. Now, you throw in MORE people to the mix blasting AA sites to assist the pilot and you're really using your resources as a team poorly. I can guarantee you, any one who plays on a competitive level or clan-based matches will agree completely with me.

On a team of 16 people, 2-3 watching AA sites to empower the team's jets and attack helicopters is certainly not a waste of manpower.

Why shouldn't a team have to assign a few resources to ensure the safety of its jets? Are you entirely unaware of how game balance works? Don't you think your contributions in a jet are worth the efforts of a few teammates?

I can't drive a tank around all day, because there are threats to it. Helicopters. Other tanks. Jets. In order for my team to enjoy the benefits of my tank, it has to do a good job of regulating the threats against it.

Now it's no different for jets. If a team wants the benefits of jets, they have to pay the price required to operate them.

The bottom line is that your entire argument is grown out of your own personal issues:

1) You hate the idea that you have to rely on anyone else
2) You hate the idea that you won't be getting scores as high as you used to
3) You hate the idea that you might be wrong
4) You hate the idea that someone with less playtime has any mechanism to effectively shoot you down

#1, #2 and #3 are all in your head - you need to work that out by yourself. And I just explained #4 in the plainest, most logical way that I know how.

[vbl]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Well if we follow your logic why don't we make TOW Missiles one hit kill vs. tanks that are heatseeking and make 90 degree turns on a dime....why not?

Because there are things such as, oh I don't know, BUILDINGS, in the way. If you can't accept that planes don't get the benefits of cover then you shouldn't be flying.

And incidentally, on a straight shot at the treads, the TOW is a one-shot kill.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

On a team of 16 people, 2-3 watching AA sites to empower the team's jets and attack helicopters is certainly not a waste of manpower.

Why shouldn't a team have to assign a few resources to ensure the safety of its jets? Are you entirely unaware of how game balance works? Don't you think your contributions in a jet are worth the efforts of a few teammates?

I can't drive a tank around all day, because there are threats to it. Helicopters. Other tanks. Jets. In order for my team to enjoy the benefits of my tank, it has to do a good job of regulating the threats against it.

Now it's no different for jets. If a team wants the benefits of jets, they have to pay the price required to operate them.

The bottom line is that your entire argument is grown out of your own personal issues:

1) You hate the idea that you have to rely on anyone else
2) You hate the idea that you won't be getting scores as high as you used to
3) You hate the idea that you might be wrong
3) You hate the idea that someone with less playtime has any mechanism to effectively shoot you down

#1, #2 and #3 are all in your head - you need to work that out by yourself. And I just explained #4 in the plainest, most logical way that I know how.

On a team of 16 people dedicating 3 people the the success of the pilots is absolutely a waste of man power. Lets say you've got both jets up as well. So that's a total of 5 people, or nearly a third of your ENTIRE team dedicated to the air. The average reasonable infantry can get at least 20-30 (sometimes more, but we'll call it 25 kills a pop) kills in a game that isn't stacked. So hopefully, those pilots better be PlaneWhore quality or close and have each killed at least 62 people each to be worth it just in kills department. But you forget, now you've also got to weigh the impact not having 5 troops in your front lines supplying ammo, operating tanks, reviving troops, and capturing flags will have. Doesn't take a legendary General to decide where that man power would better be put to use.

I won't deny I enjoy being self-reliant, but that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Saying that I am not a team player is a very unfair statement. Of course, when I'm piloting the entire round I can't be spawning with a squad or working in that kind of a tight nit fashion. I've got to consider the TEAM as my squad, and I work on softening up targets, destroying armor, helicopters, and other planes. Perfect example of how a pilot can be a team player can be found right at my pilot tutorial I made a while back found at http://files.filefront.com/PlaneWhor.../fileinfo.html. It was no statistical abhoration that the team that had me on their side typically won hands down. That's what a true skilled pilot can do for a team when working directly with the team. Which makes me so perplexed why the infantry types have such a hate for us pilots when at least half the people were recieving the benefit of having me on their team, but of course, forget the positive half, and emphasize the negative

[F-1]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

two to three snipers in a team is not bad. actually we always have more snipers than that.
Most of the AA is manned most of the time these days because it is basically a new toy.
Same thing with snipers... maybe half of every team are now snipers because of the new changes to the snipers' rifles.

In other words: having few snipers watch the AA sites is not a bad idea. I thought of this idea and made a post about it somewhere then ran across this thread and found Variable saying the same thing. seems to be a common sense to me.

Also remeber that if a sniper watchs an AA then he wont be ONLY watching THAT AA. there will always be a lot of targets around. I do not have to take every single map and every single AA site to convince you with that.

[vbl]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

On a team of 16 people dedicating 3 people the the success of the pilots is absolutely a waste of man power. Lets say you've got both jets up as well. So that's a total of 5 people, or nearly a third of your ENTIRE team dedicated to the air. The average reasonable infantry can get at least 20-30 (sometimes more, but we'll call it 25 kills a pop) kills in a game that isn't stacked. So hopefully, those pilots better be PlaneWhore quality or close and have each killed at least 62 people each to be worth it just in kills department. But you forget, now you've also got to weigh the impact not having 5 troops in your front lines supplying ammo, operating tanks, reviving troops, and capturing flags will have. Doesn't take a legendary General to decide where that man power would better be put to use.

Three people supporting pilots is definitely not a waste of manpower. Let's look at the aggregate benefits:

1) Empower jet pilots, who can touch any part of the map very quickly and with crippling firepower
2) Empower attack helicopters, who can unleash even more concentrated firepower on hard targets, but also have the ability to move along with an armor column or ground squad, AND capture flags
3) Empower transport helicopters, enabling infantry to insert deep into enemy territory to back-flag, take out assets, and increases overall "speed-to-front"
4) Reduce enemy tickets
5) ****es people off

Also keep in mind that a set of snipers watching AA sites aren't JUST watching AA sites, they're also spotting enemies, shooting other targets, frustrating enemy players, and tying up artillery.

Let's be even more pragmatic. 16-man team:
- 3 ground crew dedicated to air support and scouting
- 2 jet pilots
- 2-man attack helicopter crew
- 2 3-man squads on offense using any combination of armor and transport
- 2 utility players (squadded or not) setting up defenses, manning AA and supporting attack teams
- 1 commander

Sounds pretty complete to me.

I won't deny I enjoy being self-reliant, but that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Saying that I am not a team player is a very unfair statement. Of course, when I'm piloting the entire round I can't be spawning with a squad or working in that kind of a tight nit fashion. I've got to consider the TEAM as my squad, and I work on softening up targets, destroying armor, helicopters, and other planes. Perfect example of how a pilot can be a team player can be found right at my pilot tutorial I made a while back found at http://files.filefront.com/PlaneWhor.../fileinfo.html. It was no statistical abhoration that the team that had me on their side typically won hands down. That's what a true skilled pilot can do for a team when working directly with the team. Which makes me so perplexed why the infantry types have such a hate for us pilots when at least half the people were recieving the benefit of having me on their team, but of course, forget the positive half, and emphasize the negative

Firstly, I don't hate pilots. I do wish that they spent more time responding to infantry requests and spots, but I don't harbor any general disdain for the lot.

I saw the video on PBF back when you posted it. My comment wasn't aimed at suggesting that you don't help the team, but instead aimed at suggesting that you don't seem to believe that the team should have to (or can) help you.

Finally let's clear up one other point. I do believe that DICE should tweak the AA to be a little less turn-on-a-dime. However, I also believe that it should still be almost as effective as it is now - no more than a 10-15% reduction in effectiveness.

[DrJambo]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Well if we follow your logic why don't we make TOW Missiles one hit kill vs. tanks that are heatseeking and make 90 degree turns on a dime....why not?

After all, its an anti tank emplacement, thats ALL it does....

Lol....really.

Why don't we make all bullets kill in one hit to anywhere on the body, after all, thats all they are supposed to do is kill infantry right? Thats ALL they do, as you said.

Im glad the devs don't use your logic.

We would get worse crap than what we have now which is bad enough.

Alcorr, your arguments are pitiful. Don't compare AA vs a jet to a TOW vs a tank. A tank is slow moving and easy to hit with a TOW. JEts and choppers are fast and therefore harder to hit. Heat seaking vs tank is totally unnecessary. A TOW could never hit a jet in full motion and neither can an AT missile.

[TriggerHappy2005]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

So Planewhore are you going to keep flying jets or are you going to "master" another part of this game? I hope you stay with jets otherwise Dice might nerf whatever you "master" next. Then it would be shame on you twice for being so good, lol.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

So Planewhore are you going to keep flying jets or are you going to "master" another part of this game? I hope you stay with jets otherwise Dice might nerf whatever you "master" next. Then it would be shame on you twice for being so good, lol.

Whats the "other part" of the game? Infantry? Read, he already mentioned many times that hes good at being a grunt. What do you need?

Hes a pilot+grunt.
You seem to be just a grunt.

Who is a better player?

[TriggerHappy2005]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Whats the "other part" of the game? Infantry? Read, he already mentioned many times that hes good at being a grunt. What do you need?

Hes a pilot+grunt.
You seem to be just a grunt.

Who is a better player?

Good question. Let's find out.

[Eviscereightor]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

I don't care what others in this forum think, but i belive PW had a point. His bragging didn't help his case but the bulk of his post was truth. I saw his video - the way that he flew it WAS possible to take him down, even with ground AA. The enemy just didn't get off their asses and be bothered to make a decent effort to take him down. These days being in an F-35B just isn't fun. A J-10 gets on your ass, shoots missiles, and you're dead. You can't shake him and you can't take him down when he's in that position. I don't call this 'balance'.

[TriggerHappy2005]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

two to three snipers in a team is not bad. actually we always have more snipers than that.
Most of the AA is manned most of the time these days because it is basically a new toy.
Same thing with snipers... maybe half of every team are now snipers because of the new changes to the snipers' rifles.

In other words: having few snipers watch the AA sites is not a bad idea. I thought of this idea and made a post about it somewhere then ran across this thread and found Variable saying the same thing. seems to be a common sense to me.

Also remeber that if a sniper watchs an AA then he wont be ONLY watching THAT AA. there will always be a lot of targets around. I do not have to take every single map and every single AA site to convince you with that.

Sniping is fun but it does'nt contribute to the success of a team.

[Regent]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Here's my comment to all the complaining pilots:

http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/cat.htm

[Roger Smith]

Re: PlaneWhore = A$$hat

Geez. All he has to do is learn how to actually fly instead of just running around bombing. Noone should be able to go 70+ to zero in a plane. Noone. That shows that he may be good, but that the planes were over-armored and over-powered.

agreed, although i still get 40+/0 kill ratios in 1.2 it has to do with tactics, something planewhore doesnt understand.

heres some 1.2 flying tips regarding aa:

-fly under or over enemy ground aa. this means fly to low for them to get a lock if you are in transit, or fly over the locking area.

-make aa your primary target, make them fear you as much as you fear them

-try to stay out of hostile territory, as a good aa site will wait to get on untill you wouldnt have time to change targets

-never, ever, let an enemy jet on your six

[MMad]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

LOL. Yeah, thanks for the jet nerf, PlaneWhore. :) The game is much more fun for the vast majority of us now.