PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

The problem is that now a noob in AA has equal chances against.....

This is exactly my biggest problem right here with 1.2, and Alcorr condensed it pretty well. It takes absolutely zero skill, experience, or technique to use the new AA missiles and be 100% accurate and 100% deadly with them no matter how skilled the airplane or helicopter pilot is. Sure, and as people have said to an extent a good pilot can eliminate some of the AA posts and still deal some damage, but it is impossible to keep track of them all, or to fly aggressively enough and destroy enough quality targets to justify spending your time in the air rather than on the ground. This is especially true of the people like me who took air defense seriously, as we can now do our job just as effectively on the ground and retain all of the benefits afforded to being in that situation.

Disagree or agree I believe I am one of the most skilled pilots, but all of that experience means absolute zilch when Private "insertnewbiesnamehere" points in the general direction of my plane and clicks twice. I expect them to exert as much effort as I do piloting, in learning how to use AA properly in order to take down a skilled pilot like me. Believe it or not, the old 1.1 AA launchers were exactly that. I met a handful of people who had methods and experience with the AA launchers where they could hit planes (minus the J-10) more often that not. They had to make considerations for all sorts of variables, just as I do when I'm piloting, to acheive that level of success. That is how it should be.

[Alcorr]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

This is exactly my biggest problem right here with 1.2, and Alcorr condensed it pretty well. It takes absolutely zero skill, experience, or technique to use the new AA missiles and be 100% accurate and 100% deadly with them no matter how skilled the airplane or helicopter pilot is. Sure, and as people have said to an extent a good pilot can eliminate some of the AA posts and still deal some damage, but it is impossible to keep track of them all, or to fly aggressively enough and destroy enough quality targets to justify spending your time in the air rather than on the ground. This is especially true of the people like me who took air defense seriously, as we can now do our job just as effectively on the ground and retain all of the benefits afforded to being in that situation.

Disagree or agree I believe I am one of the most skilled pilots, but all of that experience means absolute zilch when Private "insertnewbiesnamehere" points in the general direction of my plane and clicks twice. I expect them to exert as much effort as I do piloting, in learning how to use AA properly in order to take down a skilled pilot like me. Believe it or not, the old 1.1 AA launchers were exactly that. I met a handful of people who had methods and experience with the AA launchers where they could hit planes (minus the J-10) more often that not. They had to make considerations for all sorts of variables, just as I do when I'm piloting, to acheive that level of success. That is how it should be.

Exactly, anyone who cannot see the logic in that concept/post is just a plain retard...

[vbl]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

This is exactly my biggest problem right here with 1.2, and Alcorr condensed it pretty well. It takes absolutely zero skill, experience, or technique to use the new AA missiles and be 100% accurate and 100% deadly with them no matter how skilled the airplane or helicopter pilot is. Sure, and as people have said to an extent a good pilot can eliminate some of the AA posts and still deal some damage, but it is impossible to keep track of them all, or to fly aggressively enough and destroy enough quality targets to justify spending your time in the air rather than on the ground. This is especially true of the people like me who took air defense seriously, as we can now do our job just as effectively on the ground and retain all of the benefits afforded to being in that situation.

Disagree or agree I believe I am one of the most skilled pilots, but all of that experience means absolute zilch when Private "insertnewbiesnamehere" points in the general direction of my plane and clicks twice. I expect them to exert as much effort as I do piloting, in learning how to use AA properly in order to take down a skilled pilot like me. Believe it or not, the old 1.1 AA launchers were exactly that. I met a handful of people who had methods and experience with the AA launchers where they could hit planes (minus the J-10) more often that not. They had to make considerations for all sorts of variables, just as I do when I'm piloting, to acheive that level of success. That is how it should be.

Teamwork. Sorry if that makes your eyes sting.

1) Make a friend
2) Ask friend to go sniper
3) Have friend post up somewhere on the map where you want to operate
4) Friend does two things

a) Snipes people who get into AA
b) Spots ground targets so you don't have to spend as much (risky) time flying low and level hunting for prey

5) Pat self on back for realizing that you're playing a team-based game

[Alcorr]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Teamwork. Sorry if that makes your eyes sting.

1) Make a friend
2) Ask friend to go sniper
3) Have friend post up somewhere on the map where you want to operate
4) Friend does two things
a) Snipes people who get into AA
b) Spots ground targets so you don't have to spend as much (risky) time flying low and level hunting for prey
5) Pat self on back for realizing that you're playing a team-based game

Its just not that simple if you have ever flown a chopper let alone a jet.

As soon as you come low to bomb wherever you want to bomb, it takes time to get higher again and thus you go forward i.e. towards yet another no skill noob firing its godlike AA at you....

Not to mention you are only restricted to attack one area, which is lunacy...what about jets bombing newly DEcapped points? Wheres the teamwork if the jet can't HELP his team by hitting anywhere on the map in a moments notice?

Same for choppers...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Teamwork. Sorry if that makes your eyes sting.

1) Make a friend
2) Ask friend to go sniper
3) Have friend post up somewhere on the map where you want to operate
4) Friend does two things

a) Snipes people who get into AA
b) Spots ground targets so you don't have to spend as much (risky) time flying low and level hunting for prey

5) Pat self on back for realizing that you're playing a team-based game

Being a pilot who startet up as a sniper sniping AA outposts for breakfast I can tell you one thing- it takes a selfless player to do that. And it gets boring. As a pilot I therefore never expected snipers to cover the AAs and relied on myself. Not because I failed at teamwork, but because they failed at teamwork. Selflessly I engaged bombers in puny attempt to take them down just because my team had to have a moment to breathe. I never expected anyone to do that because it truly takes a selfess attitude.

Last post of PW has enough logic for even a retard to understand but not enough convicing for a thick headed score-jealous player to accept.

As seeing the PW the movie I can tell that he was dealing with APCs and tanks far more often than doing anti-infantry or ticket- reduction raids. However, as most people dont appreciate ****, oh well.

The ONLY thanks I got during my BF2 gaming was when someone told me they absolutely hated me when I was airbourne. He was a really skilled player with an APC.

[vbl]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Its just not that simple if you have ever flown a chopper let alone a jet.

I rode AH-1 gunner on Zatar last night. 32-4. We just took it slow, worked the distance and fog, and did very well. You can't convince me that it's insurmountable, because it's not.

As soon as you come low to bomb wherever you want to bomb, it takes time to get higher again and thus you go forward i.e. towards yet another no skill noob firing its godlike AA at you....

AA is useless if no one is in it. Did you miss the part about the sniper?

Not to mention you are only restricted to attack one area, which is lunacy...what about jets bombing newly DEcapped points? Wheres the teamwork if the jet can't HELP his team by hitting anywhere on the map in a moments notice?

Look at Dalian Plant. I can cover 2 AA sites and 3 flag areas from the Dock Rig. I can cover 2 AA sites and 3 flag areas from the crane, too. You can blanket the entire map if you have two ground units in your squad.

You all know that in real life a lot of the targeting that attack jets get is from ground-based spotters, right? This is not a novel concept.

[vbl]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Being a pilot who startet up as a sniper sniping AA outposts for breakfast I can tell you one thing- it takes a selfless player to do that. And it gets boring. As a pilot I therefore never expected snipers to cover the AAs and relied on myself. Not because I failed at teamwork, but because they failed at teamwork. Selflessly I engaged bombers in puny attempt to take them down just because my team had to have a moment to breathe. I never expected anyone to do that because it truly takes a selfess attitude.

Sounds like you need to make some friends too. Or find a server that encourages teamwork.

[Alcorr]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

I rode AH-1 gunner on Zatar last night. 32-4. We just took it slow, worked the distance and fog, and did very well. You can't convince me that it's insurmountable, because it's not.

Im not saying it is. Im saying that its unbalanced because of what I said before. Noob in AA should not be so much more powerful than good pilot in chopper. Even if you can go 32/4 that doesn't mean that the AA system is good, it could just mean you are very skilled and expert players doing well isn't the same as average players doing well.

Average player vs. noob in AA should do ok. Right now they don't.

AA is useless if no one is in it. Did you miss the part about the sniper?

Umm hello....more than one AA site here, not to mention how many snipers like to sit and cover ONE random secluded AA site?

Look at Dalian Plant. I can cover 2 AA sites and 3 flag areas from the Dock Rig. I can cover 2 AA sites and 3 flag areas from the crane, too. You can blanket the entire map if you have two people in your squad.

And thats fine, what I am saying is that the sniper thing only works if you cover one small area. Even if you have a sniper covering one AA and you killing the other, we all know that now in 1.2 random missiles come from other sites all across the map....

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Sounds like you need to make some friends too. Or find a server that encourages teamwork.

*sniped*
LOL

Yeah, I guess I should. Never met hardcore snipers that I liked though. So it was tough then and would be tough even now. Your solution to the problem is simple, but practice says that it isnt happening.

[slidero]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Teamwork. Sorry if that makes your eyes sting.

1) Make a friend
2) Ask friend to go sniper
3) Have friend post up somewhere on the map where you want to operate
4) Friend does two things

a) Snipes people who get into AA
b) Spots ground targets so you don't have to spend as much (risky) time flying low and level hunting for prey

5) Pat self on back for realizing that you're playing a team-based game

ahahahahaha

[vbl]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Im not saying it is. Im saying that its unbalanced because of what I said before. Noob in AA should not be so much more powerful than good pilot in chopper. Even if you can go 32/4 that doesn't mean that the AA system is good, it could just mean you are very skilled and expert players doing well isn't the same as average players doing well.

Average player vs. noob in AA should do ok. Right now they don't.

Umm hello....more than one AA site here, not to mention how many snipers like to sit and cover ONE random secluded AA site?

And thats fine, what I am saying is that the sniper thing only works if you cover one small area. Even if you have a sniper covering one AA and you killing the other, we all know that now in 1.2 random missiles come from other sites all across the map....

You all need to get over yourselves - your senses of pride are out of control. All I hear are complaints that "noob players" can shoot you down. Well guess what?

That's the point.

AA. Anti-Air. Anti-Your-Flying-Ass. It's designed to take you down. That is its singular purpose, and it shouldn't take 100+ hours of practice for it to work right. It should be pretty damned good at icing you right out of the box.

Complaining about it shooting you down is like complaining the the Mi-28's cannon does too good a job of taking out infantry. Or that it's too easy to destroy an APC with a TOW missile - should we have to spend 100+ hours to get our technique right for the TOW missile too? Absolutely not.

Do I even need to state this? Probably. AA doesn't work against:

1) Infantry
2) Tanks
3) Jeeps
4) APCs

We use those things to counter a counter. That's game balance.

Last time I am going to say this - in 1.12 you weren't part of a team. In 1.2, you are. If you are unwilling or unable to convince your team to help you out, then you need to find another team or stop playing altogether.

It's about time that you flyboys sucked it up and started participating in BF2's interdependency.

[Alcorr]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

AA. Anti-Air. Anti-Your-Flying-Ass. It's designed to take you down. That is its singular purpose, and it shouldn't take 100+ hours of practice for it to work right. It should be pretty damned good at icing you right out of the box.

Well if we follow your logic why don't we make TOW Missiles one hit kill vs. tanks that are heatseeking and make 90 degree turns on a dime....why not?

After all, its an anti tank emplacement, thats ALL it does....

Lol....really.

Why don't we make all bullets kill in one hit to anywhere on the body, after all, thats all they are supposed to do is kill infantry right? Thats ALL they do, as you said.

Im glad the devs don't use your logic.

We would get worse crap than what we have now which is bad enough.

[MooneyBravo]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Guys.....honestly. If you're letting "any noob" get behind you then you aren't being a good pilot and using your views. Contrary to your guys' beliefs the AA is NOT an 100% guaranteed hit every time...neither is the air to air. I flew with among the best in BF1942, and took a break flying in BF:V and fly on occasion in BF2. I can honestly say right now, that these changes were for the better...why?

Do you remember that speech in Top Gun where it says pilots are too reliant on their missles and have forgotten the elements of dogfighting? Well that can apply here..you guys need to re-learn dogfighting tactics and can even learn some new ones.

Yes, "any noob" can hop in an AA and point and click in your general direction so you have to think smarter. Also you can have a look at my stats and will probably just think I am a "noob" and only agree with these changes because I can point and click kill you now. You can think whatever you want about me, however, I am actually trying to help the situation...but I just remembered the pilot communities back in BF1942. Everyone thought they were the best, everyone made up excuses and blamed others when they got shot down, and everyone secretly hated each other. Man I'm glad I got out right before BF:V.

[PermenentMarker]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

Waw...
Pilots are really unhappy because they have to do sooo much more effort...

A helicopter is made to DESRTOY ground units such as people, armour and so on...
That is why I was against them being nerfed, because those who complained before, never used their brains to take them out.
Now its soooo much harder, I will agree.

Planes needed to be nerfed because half a$$ pilots would stay in the air for freaking ever... and to be realistic, 1 missle is all that is needed to take down a plane.

AA is ment to take out air... note the name ANTI AIR ???
I find it normal that its just a question of point, wait for lock, ... ok wait for flairs, wait for lock again and shoot... so what the problem now ??? they dont miss... thats good... or maybe they should miss ??? even when you locked on ??

A newbi AA user will stay in it... well a good pilot can take him out before being in range using the plane machinegun.

I on the other hand will prone next to it, and jump in when I see its the right time point and click... then byebye

I think thats the way it should be.

I agree that choppers are overly nerfed... but planes... come on, if people are still capable of having 20kills and 1 death... then HOW IS IT SO BAD ???


Oww no, dogfights involve missles now... owwwww noooooooooo
In reality, a us jet will NEVER use freaking plane machinegun to take out another... so whats the big deal ? I still think if your good, you can outmanuver another pilot... if not... well to bad

I think that in reality, its normal that the first pilot that pops up in back of an ennemy takes him down with ease...

Now one that flaires and outmanuvers by pulling some crazy stunt... thats skilled.

I seriously think this patch brought the game a little closer to reality... even if it is far from a sim... I find it cooler that way.

Fact is...
NO ONE CAN MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY WITHOUT MAKING OTHERS UNHAPPY...
So TOO BAD.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore: yet another AA vs jet thread (renamed)

LOL Variable. You've already lost any debate if your best solution is "Pilot has a squad of snipers watching all AA sites for him". That is a huge waste of man power, period. I'm arguing that if I as a pilot am forced to kill an AA site, retreat, kill an AA site, repeat, in an ultra-defensive fashion I'm already dead weight to my team. Being forced to hunt the outskirts and pick of AA sites that respawn in 30 seconds or less and are constantly manned is completely worthless for my team. Now, you throw in MORE people to the mix blasting AA sites to assist the pilot and you're really using your resources as a team poorly. I can guarantee you, any one who plays on a competitive level or clan-based matches will agree completely with me.