every signle person here needs to read this.

[-=SiN=-Broown]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

Well the articel is bang on. We all start out on the same battlefield with the same tools laid out infront of us. It is up to the players to decide what to do then. I believe this game will branch off into two different types. Ranked and Unranked. (Oh wait it is) People who don't like "Whores" will leave the game. (it sucks cause they are good fodder)
People who truely want to win will stay and allow this game to flourish until the next bf installment.

[Ind1go]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

I can't understand when people say they don't play BF2 to win.

Why else are you playing about it? Think about what you are saying, and the different ways of playing the game. People either play to boost their stats and since padding is much reduced they usually need to do it in a competitive way. Unless you want a million purple hearts. They are happiest when gaining badges, improving ratios etc. - all things that happen when you "win".

What else?

People play for the enjoyment of supporting a squad, something missing from other games, and get pleasure from having their team-mates win. E.g. many medics, engineers & support troopers play for this reaosn. Though they will attack enemies given the chance (unless they are going for badges perhaps?) they typically aim on supporting the more combat orientated players. They can consider themselves a success if their squad works well and therefore their team wins.

What else?

You have the casual, part time gamer who has no interest in stats, perhaps no interest in teamwork and simply likes going online for a quick game. Not THAT common in BF2 but unlikely since there are better "quick fix" games out there (that don't take 20 mins to load a map).

With the exception of the part timers, the majority of playing BF2 are there to win. Perhaps not directly, but at the very least indirectly. So claiming you are a "team player" or "not interested in stats" doesn't mean you don't care about winning, you just do it in a different way. So please, thinking about it before posting silly remarks like that!

What about the concept of being "over competitive"?
It depends on your definition. I'd say someone using hacks, cheats or known exploits of poor coding (such as 1.02 Blackhawks) were over competitive. They can't/won't compete on a level surface so they tilt it in their favour by doing something others can't... AND THERE IS THE KEY. If EVERYONE can do something (and it's not a huge bug as in the 1.02 BHs) then it's not fair. Anyone can use the grenade launcher so if someone uses it on you, use it back! Why not? but if you do things others CANNOT then you are going too far to win.

If someone consistently beats you using a tank/chopper/plane then they are not at fault - they're good at the game. Change your tactics, put up with them or leave the server. If I have fought you back to your base then my team and I have the upper hand. You don't deserve to win unless you can fight us off and break loose. Why should I give you any advantage? I am not exploiting anything in the game, I've simply acheived a position of dominance by being better. I wouldn't expect you to let up either and if you did I'd try to punish you for it. That's not being over competitive, just competitive. I want my team to win and I will either attack myself or support the others who are doing so. If you weren't competitive you would be submissive and simply let me kill you. The mere fact you fight back shows you are competitive and trying to win.

There is of course the old saying "it's not the winning it's the taking part" and this is true to an extent as well. If we couldn't enjoy any aspects of defeat then we wouldn't play the game. Playing in a close fought game ending 2-0 and LOSING is almost as fun as winning the same game. Everyone knows that it was close, people worked hard and in the end there was little to seperate either team so you come away with the satisfaction of having played in an exciting battle. Losing 165-0 does not give this feeling to the same degree but if you see that you had tried hard to command/heal or help your team at least you get the personal satisfaction that you tried your best to win.

So all you server admins out there. Take off all restrictions on "uncappable spawn attacking" - there's nothing wrong with it. Server admins should be there to stop people from taking advantage of known problems (bunny hopping - it's a known fault in the game, not a feature, and only done because people KNOW they are exploiting a fault. Not everyone knows about it so the playing field isn't fair.) But don't accuse people unjustly or get annoyed at them just because they are good at the game. If you do, you're just showing how bitter you are at the fact others might be better at something you are.

Happy to hear other views on this...

[DarkHorse2160]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

if ONLY you went to my school....im sure itd be easier convincing you in person then whie while your behind your little conputer screen that youve devoted so much of your life to.

Ooooooooooooh SNAP! I am SO burned! Sorry kid, but I finished school way back in 1977, then served my country for the next 20 years. So, I haven't really been behind my little computer screen.

What have you done lately? Pwning noobs doesn't count!

[Ind1go]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

Ooooooooooooh SNAP! I am SO burned! Sorry kid, but I finished school way back in 1977, then served my country for the next 20 years. So, I haven't really been behind my little computer screen.

What have you done lately? Pwning noobs doesn't count!

A little unfair since you almost admit he's not had a chance to do anything. And I'd have expected someone a bit older and more mature to not feel the need to respond to purile comments with some of their own and concentrate on the topic at hand.

[UomoD1Merda]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

I can't understand when people say they don't play BF2 to win.
[ZNIP]
Happy to hear other views on this...

I never said i don't play to win, i just said that i want to win having fun. as long as nobody gives me money for playing BF2 (well, i even PAID to play :) ) the goal is to HAVE FUN (all in all, they're still called GAMES). Of course winning is usually funnier than losing...

And generally i have fun when there's teamplay, the commander plays really as a commander, my squad mates get flags while i cover them with my sniper rifle...
btw i love Jihad jeeps

[I Hate TKpunishers]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

It is clear to me that for the author, there is an INVERSE relationship between his NEED to win and the SIZE of his winky. To him, winning is EVERYTHING. TO the normal person, this is not the case. He is clearly a poor sport, and a bad winner to boot. I'm sure that when he's worshipping his StreetFighter trophy room, we're all out having fun and getting laid.

[DarkHorse2160]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

A little unfair since you almost admit he's not had a chance to do anything. And I'd have expected someone a bit older and more mature to not feel the need to respond to purile comments with some of their own and concentrate on the topic at hand.

Funny...I thought my response was actually quite reserved. I pointed out his error in making assumptions about others.

BTW....The last line WAS directly related to the topic at hand, whether YOU understood that or not.

[Ind1go]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

I never said i don't play to win, i just said that i want to win having fun. as long as nobody gives me money for playing BF2 (well, i even PAID to play :) ) the goal is to HAVE FUN (all in all, they're still called GAMES). Of course winning is usually funnier than losing...

And generally i have fun when there's teamplay, the commander plays really as a commander, my squad mates get flags while i cover them with my sniper rifle...
btw i love Jihad jeeps

Point taken, you play to have fun. But my point was that to have fun you have to be doing what you've set out to do. Supporting a team, sniping, driving tanks etc. are all usually what we enjoy doing.

True, you don't like it when you are not having fun. I'm guessing that your sentiment could be that you don't have fun when people attack you in your spawn,use grenade launchers etc. (not you personally, but those who moan about "whoring" and such like).

All they have done is found a tactic to help them win i.e. have fun. Rather than stand up and say "errr I don't like this so I'll ban it" it's MORE fun trying to think of a counter tactic. Then YOU are in control and it's up to them to counter you. It's fun thinking of the tactics, trying them out then finding the one that works. You miss out in BF2 when you play, find someone doing something better than you and stick your head in the sand and complain, rather than thinking about it.

It is clear to me that for the author, there is an INVERSE relationship between his NEED to win and the SIZE of his winky. To him, winning is EVERYTHING. TO the normal person, this is not the case. He is clearly a poor sport, and a bad winner to boot. I'm sure that when he's worshipping his StreetFighter trophy room, we're all out having fun and getting laid.

Nice, constructive criticism.

[Ind1go]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

Funny...I thought my response was actually quite reserved. I pointed out his error in making assumptions about others.

BTW....The last line WAS directly related to the topic at hand, whether YOU understood that or not.

My point was you had responded to off topic jibes and irrelevant immature comments in what comes over as "shut up kid, I'm an adult therefore better" kind of way. Granted, forums are notorious for reading messages the wrong way so sorry if that's not what you meant.

Best to just ignore silly comments like his than give them any form of respect

Still not sure what "What have YOU done lately, pwning noobs doesn't count" has to do with the topic though. I thought the topic was about whether or not the things like spawn camping or attacking carriers etc made BF2 not fun anymore or whether they are part of the experience and when thought about, accounted for and beaten, making the game even more fun.

And also whether being competitive in an online war simulation is a good thing or a bad thing... :)

[I Hate TKpunishers]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

Nice, constructive criticism.

Hey... I just call it like I see it.

[stilla-killa]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

thing is i dont play street fighter anymore.

[{USI}_DirTyDeeDs]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

HUH? :p

[Sloi sauce]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

I won't bother repeating previously made points, but I will mention that I echo Ind1go's thoughts on the topic. On a sidenote: it is now apparent to me that glasseye wears his name quite well...

[3Libras]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

The spicy taste of vomit still lingers in the back of my throat from your post, Ind1go.

Naw, I'm not that immature. That's your opinion. I just can't help but find it weak. So, I'm one of those supporting players you mentioned in your post. Win or lose the round, I have fun. You can call that an indirect desire to win 'till you're blue in the face and I'll still be scratching my head. You can't take 'playing to win' that literally. All we're trying to say is it can be much more fun to keep things ultimately fair. I really don't understand your argument on how someone soaring above you in a jet is better than you at the game, or see the fun in having to change to assault class and whip out an m203 to deal with the other guy's nade launcher. In some cases it might be fun to find an effective counter to the problem. But maybe I don't want to use a stupid nade launcher, maybe I don't wanna fly and deal with the Runway Party. If it was some serious clan match for money, well, maybe. At that point I'm kind of disappointed because games were meant to be played for fun and weren't meant to be taken so seriously.

[Sloi sauce]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

This potential fairness you write of is subjective and can ultimately be re-defined ad infinitum, so rather than engage in such a pointless endeavor, why not utilize the advantages available to you and let others catch up in due time? Exploitation of bugs aside, I fail to understand the problem with using every tools at your disposal. In any case, I foresee the same arguments being repeated over and over, so I will take my leave...