every signle person here needs to read this.

[MooJuice]

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

this is the true definition of a winning gamer, and now i never, ever, EVER want to hear anybody call something lame or noobish again.

discuss.

[glasseye]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

thats a wonderful link. except the guy is an idiot and has noidea what he is talking about. i can see how lamers would like to believe its true though.

[2(x)ist]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

that was very noobish

[MooJuice]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

let me quote the opening fricken paragraph for you glasseye

"The sad irony is that those who do not already understand the implications I’m about to spell out will probably not believe them to be true at all. In fact, if I were to send this article back in time to my earlier self, even I would not believe it. Apparently, these concepts are something one must come to learn through experience"

-- he is 100% correct and you post simply proves it.

[glasseye]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

no, he (and you) proved my point.

but as i already said, i can see how lamers would like to believe its true.

understand, you can be lame if you like. i understand you might not have the very basic ablities needed to play a video game on an even ground. there is no point in trying to pretend its not lame though.

[MooJuice]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

dude, have you read the entire article? like every single thing he says completely crushes your argument into the ground.

the mind is like a parachute; it works best when open.

go read the article again without being a stubborn little nerd bent on the notion that he cannot be possibly wrong.

i play small time competetive tournys for money, and am pretty much undefeated, and seriously this guy is explaining the EXACT stuff behind being a true winner.

if you read it right through again and are still being sutbborn, refrain from posting again please. it should at least help the collective gene pool in this thread.

[SupUnd]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

let me quote the opening fricken paragraph for you glasseye

"The sad irony is that those who do not already understand the implications I’m about to spell out will probably not believe them to be true at all. In fact, if I were to send this article back in time to my earlier self, even I would not believe it. Apparently, these concepts are something one must come to learn through experience"

-- he is 100% correct and you post simply proves it.

<SARCASM>Yes. He is correct. He's smarter than Hawking and Einstein put together. He is more wise than 10 Confucius and Platos. And he's been playing games competitively for 1,000,000,000,000 years and never lost once. I mean, look at him, he has an article on the web. It has to be true.</SARCASM>

Actually, what that guy is saying is true. I agree that most people will confine their set of allowed strategies to those that they are capable of and automatically view other strategies as unfair. Those who are truely good will have mastered the winning strategies that others see as unfair. I think we can agree this is true...to a point.

But even the "winners" as it were understand there are limits to what you area allowed to do. A professional athlete will perhaps psyche out the competition before a match. Few will actually assault their rivals to prevent them from competing as Tanya Harding did. Who here can say Tanya Harding was playing fair and that she was just the better competitor. Remember, there is a fine line between using superior strategies and cheating. Also remember that the overzealous competitors (like Tanya Harding) are the type who will break the rules and then redefine those same rules so they are no longer in violation? Are you a competitor like Tanya Harding?

At any rate, what ever happened to the notion of "playing to have fun?"

[glasseye]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

dude, have you read the entire article? like every single thing he says completely crushes your argument into the ground.

the mind is like a parachute; it works best when open.

nothing he says crushes anything. everything he says smacks of hows lamers try to justify themselves to others.

[DarkHorse2160]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

let me quote the opening fricken paragraph for you glasseye

"The sad irony is that those who do not already understand the implications I’m about to spell out will probably not believe them to be true at all. In fact, if I were to send this article back in time to my earlier self, even I would not believe it. Apparently, these concepts are something one must come to learn through experience"

-- he is 100% correct and you post simply proves it.

No! He's a 100% A-hole....just like way too many online gamers these days!

Yeah, if you're playing in a competive match for prizes or money, and they allow it, do whatever the hell you want. When you're just playing online with us normal folks and the server says anything like..no UCP raping/camping or stat padding (<- and YES..repeatedly bombing/strafing airfields and carriers IS ALL OF THE ABOVE), then DON'T DO IT!

If the server says anything goes, then....have at it.

[Punisher18]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

F* readin that man. if you read the whole thing... than go outside or something. lol`

[AsclepiusZ]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

i can see the writers POV and i dont really agree or disagree with him. I think he has basically taken the issue and cut it into a clear black vs white when its never that simple. Expecially since he is talking mostly about a 1 on 1 environment when we are all talking about a game based around teamwork. The way he has put it, he is saying 'In order to win, you have to be a self-centered bastard'. At least thats how i read it. Im thinking its one of those articles everyone will read differently.

In the end, i think it just comes down to how you wish to play. Play the damn game, have fun and screw everyone else thinks.

[MooJuice]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

assaulting other layers like tanya is like walking over and smashing another player in the mouth at a LAN tourny. its askew to what this guy is talking about, however i think i know what your getting at, and no, things like glitches etc are frowned upon. he only talks of playing the game, not physically exploiting it.

and darkhorse, i agree... nowhere in the article does it say 'do these things even if not allowed' - everything should still be confined to the physical server ruls, but aside from that, anything goes.

finally, supund:


A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which ones tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Let’s consider two groups of players: a group of good players and a group of scrubs. The scrubs will play “for fun” and not explore the extremities of the game. They won’t find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly. The good players will. The good players will find incredibly overpowering tactics and patterns.

Notice that the good players are reaching higher and higher levels of play. They found the “cheap stuff” and abused it. They know how to stop the cheap stuff. They know how to stop the other guy from stopping it so they can keep doing it. And as is quite common in competitive games, many new tactics will later be discovered that make the original cheap tactic look wholesome and fair.

Let’s return to the group of scrubs. They don’t know the first thing about all the depth I’ve been talking about. Their argument is basically that ignorantly mashing buttons with little regard to actual strategy is more “fun.”

Superficially, their argument does at least look true, since often their games will be more “wet and wild” than games between the experts, which are usually more controlled and refined. But any close examination will reveal that the experts are having a great deal of fun on a higher level than the scrub can even imagine. Throwing together some circus act of a win isn’t nearly as satisfying as reading your opponent’s mind to such a degree that you can counter his ever move, even his every counter move.

i could go on, but you get the point. in fact you shouldnt gotten the point before you even mentioned playing for fun. you did read the article, didnt you?

[DarkHorse2160]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

nothing he says crushes anything. everything he says smacks of hows lamers try to justify themselves to others.

Yeah, kind of reminds of the school yard bully mentality. Whatever makes you happy though. I'll always enjoy myself, even though...apparently, I'm a loser???:laugh:

[MooJuice]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

if ONLY you went to my school....im sure itd be easier convincing you in person then whie while your behind your little conputer screen that youve devoted so much of your life to.

[SupUnd]

Re: every signle person here needs to read this.

First off, the author of this article often takes the stance that those who disagree with him are simply ignorant. To me that's often the stance someone takes when they have no ground to stand on. But, I digress.

Playing for fun to me doesn't mean playing to win. Winning is nice, but I'm not the competitive type. The author of the article wrongly assumes that one will necessarily have fun playing to win. This is not true for many people, including me.

Of course, this is all assuming one plays a game to have fun. That obviously isn't true for everyone but I think it is true for most people.

Ultimately, this is all rather abstract. A better discussion of this topic might be created if specific examples from the game were discussed. What was the ultimate point of posting this article? I'm not entirely clear on that to be honest.