The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

[MatTheCat]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

Gah, completely wrong thread.

Your logic on lost sales is apalling, Avalanche.

You claim people shouldnt have a learning curve in videogames, then you go around and claim that everyone who would like a challenge, should do martial arts. Youre being narrowminded, I could list a number of sports much more demanding physically and mentally, compared to MA. Thats not the point. You want the game to be simple and easy the second you pop in, basically being angry at everyone who has more time (and or more talent) to play games. I dont even know how to respond to this kind of thinking...

You could reply to him with something eqaully inane as his post was, for example:

If you don't want learning curve or challenge then go play some 'everyones a winner' lame arsed Wii title you damn n00b!

The infantry/vehicle aspects to BF2 alone were fantastic. But the addition of such a finely tuned flight element that required lighting fast reactions and judgement skills to be finely honed to a fine point, opened up a whole new doors of gaming exhileration and satisfaction. People who cry about getting raped by choppers/jets are bascially just little bitches as 95% of the time being repeadtedly raped by chopper can be avoided by changing spawn point. Wake Island is the one map that can be ruined by J10 dominance, providing there are no USMC gamers who have the tactical nouse and/or patience to successfully manouvre black hawk or parachute out F35 at caps flag.

Bearing in mind that it was a PC only release and that PS3/360 (90% of modern games sales) never existed, BF2 was one the most popular online shooters of all time, and still is. 2142 was proved notably less popular, yet the only real difference between the two was that in 2142, there wasn't any real flight element to the game other than big clumsy lame arsed choppers which were almost as bad as the choppers in BC2.

BC2 is a brilliant game in its own right and the fully destructable environments really do add a whole new never seen before dimension to online shooters. However, it will not have the longevity that BF2 had and still has for many.......still, this probably suits EA as having a game with the level of depth, learning curve, and long term value that BF2 offered is bad for business. why buy other games if none of them you offer you what BF2 does?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

You could reply to him with something eqaully inane as his post was, for example:

I was considering an example of infantry fight being resolved with "rock-paper-scissor", completely reliant on luck, keeps everyone "happy". But I didnt want this argument to escalate.

The infantry/vehicle aspects to BF2 alone were fantastic. But the addition of such a finely tuned flight element that required lighting fast reactions and judgement skills to be finely honed to a fine point, opened up a whole new doors of gaming exhileration and satisfaction. People who cry about getting raped by choppers/jets are bascially just little bitches as 95% of the time being repeadtedly raped by chopper can be avoided by changing spawn point. Wake Island is the one map that can be ruined by J10 dominance, providing there are no USMC gamers who have the tactical nouse and/or patience to successfully manouvre black hawk or parachute out F35 at caps flag.

I dont fully agree with this, but I will say that vast majority of inbalance issues came from players apathy. Noone was willing to drive around a buggy with the .50 cal to rip the choppers apart by setting up ambushes. Rightfully so as thats not something one would want to do for the whole round, for hundreds of hours. In reverse, I found jets and choppers to be so fun that I couldnt care less about infantry combat. Throw in a skill dependant air-deterrant in there which was equally fun, and the game would balance itsself out. In theory, the Stinger sites in BF2 were a great counter against air, if you use teamwork (man 2-4 of them and use VOIP), you can lock that air up nice and tightly. However, they werent fun, so noone wanted to spend their time in them.

still, this probably suits EA as having a game with the level of depth, learning curve, and long term value that BF2 offered is bad for business. why buy other games if none of them you offer you what BF2 does?

A game with a lot of replay value is detrimental to business

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

I
In theory, the Stinger sites in BF2 were a great counter against air, if you use teamwork (man 2-4 of them and use VOIP), you can lock that air up nice and tightly. However, they werent fun, so noone wanted to spend their time in them.

No. They had such short range that choppers could sit outside of that range and TVGM the Stinger sites before entering the area. Jets could fly above the Stinger's range and machine-gun them into oblivion before the AA had a chance to spot them with the commo rose.

And that's not only coming from someone who did fairly well with AA and light vehicles in taking down helicopters. I also know how I cleaned an area before I moved on in my chopper. AA sites and Vodniks were the first to go out of the ground targets.

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

The infantry/vehicle aspects to BF2 alone were fantastic. But the addition of such a finely tuned flight element that required lighting fast reactions and judgement skills to be finely honed to a fine point, opened up a whole new doors of gaming exhileration and satisfaction. People who cry about getting raped by choppers/jets are bascially just little bitches as 95% of the time being repeadtedly raped by chopper can be avoided by changing spawn point. Wake Island is the one map that can be ruined by J10 dominance, providing there are no USMC gamers who have the tactical nouse and/or patience to successfully manouvre black hawk or parachute out F35 at caps flag.

Funny how Karkand/Warlord dedicated servers dominate in BF2 community.

And, you're right, after being raped a few times in Wake Island, I chose not to join any server with jets.

Even though airborne element in BF2142 is way more balanced and fine tuned, the most popular map is still VTOL-free Camp G.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

No. They had such short range that choppers could sit outside of that range and TVGM the Stinger sites before entering the area. Jets could fly above the Stinger's range and machine-gun them into oblivion before the AA had a chance to spot them with the commo rose.

If you sit in the Stinger site at all times, of course youre going to get lit up. You need to point the Stinger in the opposing direction from where you expect an attack (against jets). Choppers are even easier. The goal against both is to score at least one hit, which means theyll be off the battlefield for at least a minute.

And Avalanche. Funny how with the introduction of IO, there wasnt a decline in Karkand servers (on the contrary). I would have assumed some of the 16 player maps would be utilized into IO. IO was long ago revealed as a common "legit" statpadders excuse to not to deal with vehicles.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

If you sit in the Stinger site at all times, of course youre going to get lit up. You need to point the Stinger in the opposing direction from where you expect an attack (against jets). Choppers are even easier. The goal against both is to score at least one hit, which means theyll be off the battlefield for at least a minute.

And Avalanche. Funny how with the introduction of IO, there wasnt a decline in Karkand servers (on the contrary). I would have assumed some of the 16 player maps would be utilized into IO. IO was long ago revealed as a common "legit" statpadders excuse to not to deal with vehicles.

And how are you supposed to get the hundreds of hours on the AA you say woul dbe needed to be taken seriously or considered a pro AA user? One thing that bothers me about your arguments about AA is that you completely miss the point that real life AA, specially stinger launchers, is based on the principle of ease of use and portability. AA sites with flak cannons or AA missiles are feared and most of the time are taken down from the ground by armor or infantry, not the air fighters itselves.

We are telling you using the AA in BF2, the stinger launchers specially, was pointless since the Fighters and choppers got more attack range than the missile, and not th eother way around, like it should. I could believe in your theorycraft of 4 people locking down th emap is flares didn't attract all AA until they dissapear, and reload on AA is longer than the flare reload. With planes that can practically turn around 180° while on afterburners, dive perpendicular to the ground and fly off without worrying about G-Forces and inertia, machine guns with no deviation or COF, it's very difficult to buy the whole "we play them cos it's fun and rewarding and they need skill" card.

Choppers in BF2 feature inertia and physics that the BF2 choppers don't. BF choppers and planes are superpowered flying infantry; I wouldn't be surprised if jets could side strafe too. I know I didn't get into them precisely because they don't mimic anything resembling a flying engine; flying with mouse nd keyboard is obtuse, maybe a good fix would be removing joystick support so at least everybody is forced to play with just the mouse.

One reason I don't think flying in BF2 needs skill: neither planes or choppers stall, you never lose sustentation. One of the first things pilots have to worry about is removed from the equation, you are never in danger when doing acrobatics, since the physics don't make you fall like they should.

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

If you sit in the Stinger site at all times, of course youre going to get lit up. You need to point the Stinger in the opposing direction from where you expect an attack (against jets). Choppers are even easier. The goal against both is to score at least one hit, which means theyll be off the battlefield for at least a minute.

You don't need to sit in it. Any decent pilot or chopper gunner knows where all of the sites in range are. So we smash them before anyone even has a chance to get in. Then you just hit that area as the emplacement respawns periodically.

You're trying to act like you're all reasonable and that it's balanced and easy to adapt to the situation. It's just not true, though. Stationary AA was useless in BF2. Aircraft could blow it up with absolutely no risk to themselves.

In BFBC2, AA is a very real threat. That wasn't the case in BF2 because of the god-gun TVGM that vaporized everything in a single hit, along with the infinite range of the jets' maingun. Stationary AA was a known target. The ONLY way anyone in the AA could kill a decent jet was to catch one in the middle of a fight with another jet.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

You don't need to sit in it. Any decent pilot or chopper gunner knows where all of the sites in range are. So we smash them before anyone even has a chance to get in. Then you just hit that area as the emplacement respawns periodically.

You're trying to act like you're all reasonable and that it's balanced and easy to adapt to the situation. It's just not true, though. Stationary AA was useless in BF2. Aircraft could blow it up with absolutely no risk to themselves.

In BFBC2, AA is a very real threat. That wasn't the case in BF2 because of the god-gun TVGM that vaporized everything in a single hit, along with the infinite range of the jets' maingun. Stationary AA was a known target. The ONLY way anyone in the AA could kill a decent jet was to catch one in the middle of a fight with another jet.

Couple that with the fact reloading all your weapons and getting a repair if you by some chance got damaged took less than 2 seconds, and once a place got off, there was practically no way to take it down during a round, unless faced by a J10. Planes and choppers had a more direct threat from stray tree branches and telephone posts than from AA emplacements.

Chris, the thing is; the real rock-scissors-paper has the infantry with the upper hand; flak cannons and stinger portable launchers were designed to be easy to use by grunts on the ground, Flak cannons work by spamming an area with exploding shells since you can't pinpoint targets on the air. Stingers are intelligent and fire and forget. In BF2 we played a game that was rock-scissors-paper and the air assets were shotgun and dynamite respectively.

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------

You don't need to sit in it. Any decent pilot or chopper gunner knows where all of the sites in range are. So we smash them before anyone even has a chance to get in. Then you just hit that area as the emplacement respawns periodically.

You're trying to act like you're all reasonable and that it's balanced and easy to adapt to the situation. It's just not true, though. Stationary AA was useless in BF2. Aircraft could blow it up with absolutely no risk to themselves.

In BFBC2, AA is a very real threat. That wasn't the case in BF2 because of the god-gun TVGM that vaporized everything in a single hit, along with the infinite range of the jets' maingun. Stationary AA was a known target. The ONLY way anyone in the AA could kill a decent jet was to catch one in the middle of a fight with another jet.

Couple that with the fact reloading all your weapons and getting a repair if you by some chance got damaged took less than 2 seconds, and once a place got off, there was practically no way to take it down during a round, unless faced by a J10. Planes and choppers had a more direct threat from stray tree branches and telephone posts than from AA emplacements.

Chris, the thing is; the real rock-scissors-paper has the infantry with the upper hand; flak cannons and stinger portable launchers were designed to be easy to use by grunts on the ground, Flak cannons work by spamming an area with exploding shells since you can't pinpoint targets on the air. Stingers are intelligent and fire and forget. In BF2 we played a game that was rock-scissors-paper and the air assets were shotgun and dynamite respectively.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

Lordsethonan, all of this has been covered before. Your arguments are becoming ridiculous, if you want realism in air, you better accept realism on the ground, or better yet, play Project Reality. I have one suggestion for you- you should have played POE2. BF2 can be fixed easily.

Let me know when you see someone who actively put hours into fighting aircraft, and not just by jumping into the Stinger pod for a 2-click easy kill.

---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

Expletive. Gulf of Oman, I was on the USMC side, two guys from MEC used STAs at Hotel and one at the beach flags. The fact that I had to clear them out every time I wanted to engage ground targets, cut my average results down 50%. I got killed once or twice, but only made close to 20 kills. During the entire round. It can be done. If you expect a two-click instakill for everything which flies, then youre delusional. Introduce skill dependant surface-to-air which efficiency increases with time invested (mobile STA), balanced in numbers compared to how many air units there are, and its done. Im telling you that there are specific reasons to why air became overpowered, and it has nothing to do with STA being useless.

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

Let me know when you see someone who actively put hours into fighting aircraft, and not just by jumping into the Stinger pod for a 2-click easy kill.

[/COLOR]Expletive. Gulf of Oman, I was on the USMC side, two guys from MEC used STAs at Hotel and one at the beach flags. The fact that I had to clear them out every time I wanted to engage ground targets, cut my average results down 50%. I got killed once or twice, but only made close to 20 kills. During the entire round. It can be done. If you expect a two-click instakill for everything which flies, then youre delusional. Introduce skill dependant surface-to-air which efficiency increases with time invested (mobile STA), balanced in numbers compared to how many air units there are, and its done. Im telling you that there are specific reasons to why air became overpowered, and it has nothing to do with STA being useless.

A: I have put in some time using the AA, both mobile and stationary. In mobile AA, mainly the Bradley Linebacker, I locked aircraft out of the sky on more than one occasion. Stingers can't move, though. So there are no TTPs involved.

B: You've created some fantasy land where you're right, but this time you aren't. Stationary AA was useless in vBF2. IT WASN'T DEPENDANT ON SKILL. That's what we've been saying all along. NO amount of skill in stationary AA can possibly be attained. The only factor the player has any control over is timing, after that it's nothing but luck.

C: This section is for BFBC2, NOT BF2. AA in BFBC2 IS dependant on skill. We got what we wanted: the ability to win based on skill, not random chance with dice loaded against us. The chopper can still kill stationary AA in BFBC2. But this time around the guy in AA has a chance, too. It's all based on the skill of each player.

The problem here is BF2 chopper pilots came to BFBC2 expecting to completely rape the battlefield. No jets to stop them? Pwnage time. That is not the case, and now chopper pilots are crying about losing their beloved flying fortress with its god-gun of instakill destruction.

[jimykx]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

See it as positive, anyone can fly now. Ain't that great? I like it.

Dudes, i never was a good pilot in bf2, i allways ended up crashing. and you know why? because i was never able to train it because of "ubar air leets "( like you as i see -_-) that were constantly in the plane/heli pad waiting for them instead of fighting.
So i think choppers are cool now, theyr balanced, everyone can use them, leets will be unstoppable and new people will be able to fly it. at least it doesnt happen so mutch like in bf2, that when you get into a plane it will go directly against a tree or the heli will make a flip and fall backwards, because a person like me was trying to fly it

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

[EDIT] Screw it, if I wanted to go back to 2006, I would build a time machine, haha.

[Sepp_Dietrich]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

Let me know when you see someone who actively put hours into fighting aircraft, and not just by jumping into the Stinger pod for a 2-click easy kill.

I don't get this idea that BF2 is any kind of combat flight simulation.

You want to fly combat helicopter missions with real flight and damage models? Dynamic campaigns?


Check it out-

http://www.eechcentral.com/

[Kylee!]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

[EDIT] Screw it, if I wanted to go back to 2006, I would build a time machine, haha.

Woaaahahaha - we've gotten to him guys.

Bring out the spirits and cheer!

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Choppers are made of n000b.....so how do I activate the parachutes.

I don't get this idea that BF2 is any kind of combat flight simulation.

You want to fly combat helicopter missions with real flight and damage models? Dynamic campaigns?

Even though I liked FS2004 and Lock-On a lot, I dont think turning BF into a sim is an answer. I like when games have a learning curve, though.

Kyle, I didnt want this thread to get locked, as things were getting pretty heated :P