They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

[DontKnockIt225]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Bald eagle you play support and are okay with this?

Tell me, you run around a corner, and see a medic infront of you about 10m away. What will you do?

Is support meant to be a helpless class lol? Not be able to fend for itself, only fight from the sidelines, which medic/assault/sniper even any class with a pistol can do effectively. However support have tracer fire which make them fairly bad for this job. A sniper catches and instant headshot.

Wizardwarts this is not how it is meant to be played. People go on now about instant prome spamming. No1 cared for this, everyone does it. It is natural. They just care to prevent dolphin divers at the expense of everyone.

If people weren't meant to instant prone, perhaps this would have been changed anytime in the past 2-3 years. Not coincedently when dolphin divers are complained about.

And the people on here dont deserve respect.

[Indecisi0n]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

So excuse me for not understanding all this (cause i don't care as much as most) but are you guys saying that the .3 or .7 of a sec is when you are standing, then drop prone the time it will take for your accuracy to be 100%?

[Webs961]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

So excuse me for not understanding all this (cause i don't care as much as most) but are you guys saying that the .3 or .7 of a sec is when you are standing, then drop prone the time it will take for your accuracy to be 100%?

Essentially, it takes .3 seconds for your soldier to drop from standing to prone, and at the end of those .3 seconds you may begin firing again.

However, there is an accuracy penalty when you initially drop to prone, so if you start firing immediately upon your stomach hitting the ground, you probably won't hit anything.

I don't know how long that penalty lasts for, though.

[JunoPPCLI]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Okay I've been reading this entire thread now and there has been a few valid points, and a few.... not so valid.

Support class.

Whats the name of it ? Is it called front line attacker class ? Is it called rush in and shoot class ? No.

It's called support. If you want to assault a flag, what class should you be using ? Didn't we have one.. oh yah thats right. It's called ASSAULT.

Support classes purpose, their reason for being, is to support the assault class. Hence why they run slow, and carry ammo bags, they are meant to fire prone, you do not lose accuracy when you are prone, you just lose it upon immediately hitting prone. Thank god for that, I am sorry but you simply cannot go from standing to literally slamming your face into the pavement and hope to hell you are going to hit anything right away. This simply does not happen.

I was a SAW gunner in the Military, and I will tell every single one of you, there is no way this can be done. This goes off the same arguement as shooting and jumping, you will not hit anything, and I mean anything at all. For those of you with paintball/airsoft weapons, try jumping and shooting, its not gonna happen. Also try running at full speed and dive into the ground and tell me how long before you can get a shot off that hits anything aside from the ground in front of you.

The support weapon carries the most ammo, it fires the fastest, does an *** load of damage and is very accurate when prone in a supporting position. The support class is also the only one that can grenade spam. So all you support class guys, take a look at what you do have, instead of what you do not.

This is a long overdue change, and yes it will change the way you play the game. The ONLY reason you have to complain is if you relied on dolphin diving during a fight, and if thats the case, well GFY.

[imported_Whiskey]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Okay I've been reading this entire thread now and there has been a few valid points, and a few.... not so valid.

Support class.

Whats the name of it ? Is it called front line attacker class ? Is it called rush in and shoot class ? No.

It's called support. If you want to assault a flag, what class should you be using ? Didn't we have one.. oh yah thats right. It's called ASSAULT.

Support classes purpose, their reason for being, is to support the assault class. Hence why they run slow, and carry ammo bags, they are meant to fire prone, you do not lose accuracy when you are prone, you just lose it upon immediately hitting prone. Thank god for that, I am sorry but you simply cannot go from standing to literally slamming your face into the pavement and hope to hell you are going to hit anything right away. This simply does not happen.

I was a SAW gunner in the Military, and I will tell every single one of you, there is no way this can be done. This goes off the same arguement as shooting and jumping, you will not hit anything, and I mean anything at all. For those of you with paintball/airsoft weapons, try jumping and shooting, its not gonna happen. Also try running at full speed and dive into the ground and tell me how long before you can get a shot off that hits anything aside from the ground in front of you.

The support weapon carries the most ammo, it fires the fastest, does an *** load of damage and is very accurate when prone in a supporting position. The support class is also the only one that can grenade spam. So all you support class guys, take a look at what you do have, instead of what you do not.

This is a long overdue change, and yes it will change the way you play the game. The ONLY reason you have to complain is if you relied on dolphin diving during a fight, and if thats the case, well GFY.

Excellent post.

[Indecisi0n]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

So when you get these guys dropping down and firing at you, i guess its best to crouch and or stand while you fire at them ?

[Jumintiger]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Tell me, you run around a corner, and see a medic infront of you about 10m away

STOP. Here's where you screwed up. Support is NOT the first around the corner. That's AT, Assault, Engineer, or medic if the situation is desperate.

And the people on here dont deserve respect.

OK. No rules on how you can bash this guy now :evil:

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Okay I've been reading this entire thread now and there has been a few valid points, and a few.... not so valid.

Support class.

Whats the name of it ? Is it called front line attacker class ? Is it called rush in and shoot class ? No.

It's called support. If you want to assault a flag, what class should you be using ? Didn't we have one.. oh yah thats right. It's called ASSAULT.

Support classes purpose, their reason for being, is to support the assault class. Hence why they run slow, and carry ammo bags, they are meant to fire prone, you do not lose accuracy when you are prone, you just lose it upon immediately hitting prone. Thank god for that, I am sorry but you simply cannot go from standing to literally slamming your face into the pavement and hope to hell you are going to hit anything right away. This simply does not happen.

I was a SAW gunner in the Military, and I will tell every single one of you, there is no way this can be done. This goes off the same arguement as shooting and jumping, you will not hit anything, and I mean anything at all. For those of you with paintball/airsoft weapons, try jumping and shooting, its not gonna happen. Also try running at full speed and dive into the ground and tell me how long before you can get a shot off that hits anything aside from the ground in front of you.

The support weapon carries the most ammo, it fires the fastest, does an *** load of damage and is very accurate when prone in a supporting position. The support class is also the only one that can grenade spam. So all you support class guys, take a look at what you do have, instead of what you do not.

This is a long overdue change, and yes it will change the way you play the game. The ONLY reason you have to complain is if you relied on dolphin diving during a fight, and if thats the case, well GFY.

Someone please give him rep for this post. Well said, Juno. Even though I've never been concerned about the overall realism of BF2 (instant heal medpacks, defibs that cure bullet holes, etc.), what you said about the aptly-named support class was spot on. If you're leading the charge as support then you're doing it wrong because that's not what the class is for. Just like AT isn't meant for long-ranged infantry kills (boom tube notwithstanding ) or sniper isn't a CQC kit. Each class has a role, and support's role is to support the other guys who are taking the flag or to defend a position. Personally, I'll likely play support a lot more than I do now because at least if I'm prone and situated I won't have to worry about a medic coming around the corner 50m away from me, doing a barrel roll, and killing me in half a second. They can roll all they want but won't be able to hit **** doing so, and I have at least 100 bullets with which to kill them while they try to wait for their accuracy to return (or they can crouch and have a better chance at killing me giving me a bigger target to aim at). Overall, it's a lot more balanced not being able to hit the dirt and gain instant max accuracy.

So when you get these guys dropping down and firing at you, i guess its best to crouch and or stand while you fire at them ?

Pretty much, yes. Don't prone unless you know you'll have a couple of seconds (hopefully they make the delay that long before max accuracy happens) before you'll need to start shooting, otherwise just crouch.

[DontKnockIt225]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Support class.

Whats the name of it ? Is it called front line attacker class ? Is it called rush in and shoot class ? No.
It's called support. If you want to assault a flag, what class should you be using ? Didn't we have one.. oh yah thats right. It's called ASSAULT.

This is not a valid argument for it is floored with almost every kit. People do not stick to the kits because they want to get more from the kit than what the name suggests.

For example, medic, the name suggests a man who heals. However many medics play as assaults and run in the front lines.
Spec ops, the name suggests an infantry who is used for "special operations" which involve using the element of surprise. However people do not always follow this.
Sniper, many players like to sniper almost the front lines. Running around in a squad rather than hiding in the back ground. (because for many people this is boring.)
Anti tank - played loads on infantry do i need to explain?
Engineer - same argument.

Kits are played for their guns and tools (unsure on word) that they offer. Not because the name specifies a certain way of playing. This easily disproves your whole argument.

Support classes purpose, their reason for being, is to support the assault class. Hence why they run slow, and carry ammo bags, they are meant to fire prone, you do not lose accuracy when you are prone, you just lose it upon immediately hitting prone. Thank god for that, I am sorry but you simply cannot go from standing to literally slamming your face into the pavement and hope to hell you are going to hit anything right away. This simply does not happen.

The support class shoots best when prone. It has more health which suggests they should take a beating. In a prone vs prone fight the support class has superiority. Does this not suggest that if they happen to run into an enemy, they should go prone?
The assault class runs slow, according to your argument this suggests they should be supporting the front lines.

I was a SAW gunner in the Military, and I will tell every single one of you, there is no way this can be done. This goes off the same arguement as shooting and jumping, you will not hit anything, and I mean anything at all. For those of you with paintball/airsoft weapons, try jumping and shooting, its not gonna happen. Also try running at full speed and dive into the ground and tell me how long before you can get a shot off that hits anything aside from the ground in front of you.

This game is an arcade game. It is not realism. Please dont try use this as an argument because it fails in all aspects. Players get shot 4 times = dead. Unrealistic. The M16 takes more than 1 bullet to the ehad for a kill = unrealised. Players can run and jump nearly as high as another player. Totally unrealistic. This argument is floored for the game is not a realism game.

The support weapon carries the most ammo, it fires the fastest, does an *** load of damage and is very accurate when prone in a supporting position. The support class is also the only one that can grenade spam. So all you support class guys, take a look at what you do have, instead of what you do not.

Support class is terrible for support. It can even be surpassed by Special ops, and perhaps medic in terms of effectiveness at supporting troops.
Simple reason: The support class has tracer fire (you can see the bullets.) Thus you can locate the support easily and they become a desirable target. Other classes such as medics and special forces do not suffer this drawback and so can actually support much better.

This is a long overdue change, and yes it will change the way you play the game. The ONLY reason you have to complain is if you relied on dolphin diving during a fight, and if thats the case, well GFY.

This post suggests you do not play the support kit as your main kit. I am sorry that you do not understand how badly this will effect the kit. I think the only people who will really understand are the ones who played the kit and are experienced at the game.

For the record your post is a terrible post. It is funny how someone with confidence can assure so many people. Shame really but we humans do what we do. The sheep just eat their grass.

[Wizrdwarts]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

This game is an arcade game. It is not realism. Please dont try use this as an argument because it fails in all aspects. Players get shot 4 times = dead. Unrealistic. The M16 takes more than 1 bullet to the ehad for a kill = unrealised. Players can run and jump nearly as high as another player. Totally unrealistic. This argument is floored for the game is not a realism game.

QFT. The only part of your post I agree with.

[DontKnockIt225]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

QFT. The only part of your post I agree with.

Thats too bad...:cry:

[JunoPPCLI]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

"This is not a valid argument for it is floored with almost every kit. People do not stick to the kits because they want to get more from the kit than what the name suggests.

For example, medic, the name suggests a man who heals. However many medics play as assaults and run in the front lines.
Spec ops, the name suggests an infantry who is used for "special operations" which involve using the element of surprise. However people do not always follow this.
Sniper, many players like to sniper almost the front lines. Running around in a squad rather than hiding in the back ground. (because for many people this is boring.)
Anti tank - played loads on infantry do i need to explain?
Engineer - same argument."

If you choose to play a class for a purpose for which it was not designed, and then fail at that task, do you have any right to complain ? No . You don't.

If you want to assault, play assault. If you want to heal, play medic. If you want to repair, play engineer. If you want to kill tanks, play anti tank, if you want to snipe, play sniper.

If you play assault, and cannot repair , do you complain then too ? Do you complain when you can't heal as anti tank ? No. You don't .

Then why in gods name are you complaining when you cant assault with the support class ? This affects every class equally. If I dive as assault, and shoot at you, I have the same penalty a support player does.

It seems that the entire crux of your arguement, is that because support relies on prone position, they will be affected the most. This is true. But again, support isn't meant to be fighting in close quarters combat. You know the support weapons don't work well at close range, they are not supposed too. Just because you play support, does not mean the class has to work the way you want it too. There are different classes with different weapons for a reason.

"The support class shoots best when prone. It has more health which suggests they should take a beating. In a prone vs prone fight the support class has superiority. Does this not suggest that if they happen to run into an enemy, they should go prone?
The assault class runs slow, according to your argument this suggests they should be supporting the front lines."

Support should already be prone when encountering an enemy, if you are suprised by an enemy and are not already prone, that means you got outflanked. This is not the fault of the class, this is the fault of you. It may also mean that you are rushing into the battle, which again, support is not designed for. Its called SUPPORT. And yes, the names tell you exactly what they are good at. That's why they are named that, thats why we have classes in battlefield. Assault runs slow, indeed, they also have body armor. They are designed to get into the flags and kill. If your support, and your prone defending a flag, you will kill me 100 % of the time if your are any sort of a halfway decent shot. Also in the respect to tracers, tracer rounds work both ways. You can see where your shooting. I'll happily take tracers , even if people can see where im shooting from, who cares, if they can see it, odds are im going to kill them.

"This game is an arcade game. It is not realism. Please dont try use this as an argument because it fails in all aspects. Players get shot 4 times = dead. Unrealistic. The M16 takes more than 1 bullet to the ehad for a kill = unrealised. Players can run and jump nearly as high as another player. Totally unrealistic. This argument is floored for the game is not a realism game."

No its not realism, nor is it totally arcade. Battlefield is a good mix of both, realism doesn't matter, it doesn't make sense. Set yourself up properly, utilize your class , and you will be fine. I'm not sure how jumping has anything to do with anything ? I've never had to jump anywhere ? Can you jump a crate ? Or a low wall ? Yes. You can. They all jump the same height. Do you have anything else to jump over ? No, you don't , unless your talking about bunny hopping.. and well, good luck with that. If you'd like to play an arcade game, the unreal series is excellent. Odd how its called unreal, maybe thats because its.. I don't know.. not real ?

"Support class is terrible for support. It can even be surpassed by Special ops, and perhaps medic in terms of effectiveness at supporting troops.
Simple reason: The support class has tracer fire (you can see the bullets.) Thus you can locate the support easily and they become a desirable target. Other classes such as medics and special forces do not suffer this drawback and so can actually support much better."

So your bullets can be seen , so that makes your ammo, body armor, high rate of fire, and grenade spamming ability, special forces do not "Support" (Help out, or assist anyone or anything) Medics do indeed support the assault class, by being a medic, healing and reviving. I think maybe the problem here is that YOU , are not good at supporting your team, regardless of class, no one else seems to have a problem with it.

"This post suggests you do not play the support kit as your main kit. I am sorry that you do not understand how badly this will effect the kit. I think the only people who will really understand are the ones who played the kit and are experienced at the game."

I don't play support as my main kit. I understand that it will affect all kits, as its for everyone , it will affect YOU the most, as YOU relied on dolphin diving as support, I am not sorry for that. Experienced at the game ? I won't even get into that, as my earlier posts have indicated , I worked at EA for f's sake, I provided an unofficial liason with tidbits about BF3.

I'm truly sorry that you feel that YOU have been so wronged by this change. Change your play style, if your want to use support, use it for its intended purpose. If not, then don't complain when it doesn't work the way you want it too.

[Col.Bunwhacker]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Bogus, nerfing accuracy for any reason sucks...

Instead of nerfing the accuracy when prone they should just increase the accuracy for the other positions. If half the guns werent useless unless prone, people wouldnt go prone for the huge accuracy difference in the first place.

The problem is not the accuracy when prone, its the inaccuracy when not prone.. This is not going to inspire me to come back to BF2 at all. I left because of the weak inaccurate weapons in the first place.

[DontKnockIt225]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

If you choose to play a class for a purpose for which it was not designed, and then fail at that task, do you have any right to complain ? No . You don't.

If you want to assault, play assault. If you want to heal, play medic. If you want to repair, play engineer. If you want to kill tanks, play anti tank, if you want to snipe, play sniper.

If you play assault, and cannot repair , do you complain then too ? Do you complain when you can't heal as anti tank ? No. You don't .

Then why in gods name are you complaining when you cant assault with the support class ? This affects every class equally. If I dive as assault, and shoot at you, I have the same penalty a support player does.

?? Are you crazy? Did you read my post?
You say you should play a kit which it is designed for. You believe the classes are defined by their names. Thus people play every class wrong according to your argument. The simple presense of a mid range sniper not hiding in a bush, or anti tank or engineer kit on an infantry only server shows that people do not agree with you. They define their kits by what they offer. Eg. shot gun.
The name of a class does not specify how the class should be played, it is so the class can be identified easily.

It seems that the entire crux of your arguement, is that because support relies on prone position, they will be affected the most. This is true. But again, support isn't meant to be fighting in close quarters combat. You know the support weapons don't work well at close range, they are not supposed too. Just because you play support, does not mean the class has to work the way you want it too. There are different classes with different weapons for a reason.

Support weapons work great at close range.
As I have shown before, support are a fairly bad kit for shooting from the side lines, because of tracer fire. If you make them worse at fighting against a player when caught by surprise, then what good are they. I predict the support kit will be used much less after this prone inaccuracy has been implemented.
This kit is a good kit to play, but forcing support to crouch instead of prone just makes them an easy target to kill when ALL other classes have the choice to crouch or move and shoot.

So you can see my problem, support class are inferior at "supporting" compared to spec ops, medic, assault, even perhaps sniper dependind if your decent. At they are very inferior against a target at close range. So that begs the question, what is advantageous about this class? Please tell me if you know.

Support should already be prone when encountering an enemy, if you are suprised by an enemy and are not already prone, that means you got outflanked. This is not the fault of the class, this is the fault of you. It may also mean that you are rushing into the battle, which again, support is not designed for. Its called SUPPORT. And yes, the names tell you exactly what they are good at. That's why they are named that, thats why we have classes in battlefield. Assault runs will kill me 100 % of the time if your are any sort of a halfway decent sslow, indeed, they also have body armor. They are designed to get into the flags and kill. If your support, and your prone defending a flag, you hot. Also in the respect to tracers, tracer rounds work both ways. You can see where your shooting. I'll happily take tracers , even if people can see where im shooting from, who cares, if they can see it, odds are im going to kill them.

The name a class is given does not strictly show how a class should be played.
I said above, if support are disadvantageous at fighting up close, and when supporting.
Tracer rounds do not work both ways. You do not need tracer fire to show where you are shooting. This blatently shows your lack of knowledge of Battlefield 2. Why are you bothering? Tracers is a cry to get noticed and killed by the other team. Ever wonder why mounted guns are fairly unpopular? Because everyone see's your bullets, know exactly where you are and know your a sitting duck? Sound familiar? Thats identical to a support class which is supporting.

No its not realism, nor is it totally arcade. Battlefield is a good mix of both, realism doesn't matter, it doesn't make sense. Set yourself up properly, utilize your class , and you will be fine. I'm not sure how jumping has anything to do with anything ? I've never had to jump anywhere ? Can you jump a crate ? Or a low wall ? Yes. You can. They all jump the same height. Do you have anything else to jump over ? No, you don't , unless your talking about bunny hopping.. and well, good luck with that. If you'd like to play an arcade game, the unreal series is excellent. Odd how its called unreal, maybe thats because its.. I don't know.. not real ?

BF2 is very unrealistic. The jump was an example, because it is actually possible to almost jump over another player. This was one of my examples of unrealism within the game. My point remains the same, BF2 is not a realism game, so using realism as an argument for why this prone accuracy deduction should be changed is a flawed argument.

So your bullets can be seen , so that makes your ammo, body armor, high rate of fire, and grenade spamming ability, special forces do not "Support" (Help out, or assist anyone or anything) Medics do indeed support the assault class, by being a medic, healing and reviving. I think maybe the problem here is that YOU , are not good at supporting your team, regardless of class, no one else seems to have a problem with it.

No I am not the problem. The fact is support are lousy at supporting their teams because of tracer fire (see posts above). The reason people do not seem to have a problem with it, is either lack of knowledge prone and how it is used. Or lack of experience with the support class.

I don't play support as my main kit. I understand that it will affect all kits, as its for everyone , it will affect YOU the most, as YOU relied on dolphin diving as support, I am not sorry for that. Experienced at the game ? I won't even get into that, as my earlier posts have indicated , I worked at EA for f's sake, I provided an unofficial liason with tidbits about BF3.

I do not play support as my main kit. however I am not narrowminded so I can clearly see how detrimental it is. It is detrimental for all kits, for the game. However I will get by because I play medic which does not heavily rely on being prone unlike support.
You claim to be experienced at the game however your posts suggest otherwise. If you really are experienced at the game, use some of that experience in your posts please.

I'm truly sorry that you feel that YOU have been so wronged by this change. Change your play style, if your want to use support, use it for its intended purpose. If not, then don't complain when it doesn't work the way you want it too.

Prone is used to become a small target and have a solid increase in accuracy. This is what it is used for. I wil repeat, I will not be as heavily effected as anyone of you players. However for the support class this will be severaly detrimental and may even cause players to quit the game.

I hope you now understand. :thumbsup:

[JunoPPCLI]

Re: They're going to be adding an insta-prone accuracy penalty

Okay I'm not going to get into a huge thing , as your evidently not reading my posts, and using what is called a straw man argument. The classes are called what they are called, because that it is what they do . They all have a primary purpose, and they all can kill other classes. Some are better at it than others.

I will direct you back to my class functions as posted above. The name does imply what they were designed to do, period. They are called what they are called because that is what they do. You say to make them more easily identifiable, yes, exactly. Because if you want to assault, you pick assault. Period. If you pick engineer and you assault a flag, you simply will not be as effective as if you were using the assault class.

You seem to be really on this tracer rounds thing as supports main disavantage. I'm sorry, but as much as your might not want this to be so, tracer rounds work both ways. This is fact. It is not opinion, it is not conjecture, it is fact. You get to see exactly where you are shooting with the support class, which is incredibly helpful , the down side as you have pointed out, is that the enemy can also see where you are shooting from. So ? At worst, it balances out, as it goes both ways.

Prone does create a small target, and that hasn't changed. Prone does give a solid increase in accuracy, that hasn't changed. "I predict the support kit will be used much less after this prone inaccuracy has been implemented."

Again, I have no idea where your getting your information, but just so your are absolutely clear, I will post this is the most easily understandable language I can.

PRONE WILL NOT LOSE ANY ACCURACY WHATSOEVER. BEING IN THE PRONE POSITION WILL STILL GIVE YOU ALL THE SAME BENEFITS IT DID BEFORE.

The only thing that has changed, is that you will not get the benefit immediately upon going prone. If you happen to encounter an enemy in a close quarters situation somehow, (your in to close, and you got outflanked) then crouch. Just god damn crouch and shutup. Support can crouch, there is nothing stopping them from crouching, nothing whatsoever, nothing at all. Also what you evidently havent realized, is that yes prone presents a smaller target, but unfortunately the part of you that is facing your enemy is your god damn head ! And if you don't play support as your main kit, what the hell are you doing telling me my point is invalid because support isn't my main kit ?

Seriously, enough is enough. This is a long long long long overdue change, adapt and overcome.