Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Gunslinger, and who are you to deny me MY fun of using the chopper? We all have equal claim to it. If you epenis is so small you have to prove your "skill" against noobs over and over and over, you need a life buddy.
Why not use you massively 1337 skillz and train some noobs to be better gunners? I've had some wicked pilots set me up some nice kills. That takes skill. Going it alone? Not so much.

Hell your argument is like someone coming up to me and demanding i stop using the AK or the medic class because he is better at it than i am.

[Sloi sauce]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

... except there's an AK and a Medic position for every single player who wants it, whereas there is a highly limited number of air vehicles. Guess which one makes the biggest difference? :)

[DontKnockIt225]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Then what does? Communcation? Weve been there, every time you use the commo rose, youre communcating. Communcation is merely an echange of information. Cooperation? Soloer is supporting the troops, troops spot the targets. Use better arguments.

Also simply by losing a flag or seeing your team die to a heli, showing their rank identifying the gunner is also transfering informations and is communication even if not in direct communication.

chris redfield you obviously pationately believe in this argument lol

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

... except there's an AK and a Medic position for every single player who wants it, whereas there is a highly limited number of air vehicles. Guess which one makes the biggest difference? :)

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Yeah but there is enough space in a heli for me and a solo pilot. So argument nullified

[waaah_wah]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

^^That way he wont get all the kills...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Yeah but there is enough space in a heli for me and a solo pilot. So argument nullified

There are 3 choices a pilot can choose between if he ends up in a chopper with you.

One, he flies you around, like he has done a thousand times, gets killed without having any chance to change it, like hes done a thousand times.
Two, he leaves the chopper
Three, he tries to get you out of the chopper

Now, since we all play this game for our own fun, and you jumped into the copilots seat for your own fun, and since were all so selfcentered and selfish, theres absolutely no right for you to protest if youre being taken to the red line. Especially when it most cases, youre being asked to leave the chopper.

Again, in the end, everyone is an ******* in that situation. Its just that the ******* with most control wins.

As for fun, soloing and generalisation... I think its safe to say that you dont really know how much fun or what kind of fun the other person is having. Serioulsy, just because soloers get the medals, doesnt mean they try hard and play for them. It just means they have become efficient at what they do.

^^That way he wont get all the kills...

Dont worry, you suck so bad in the helo that you wont steal anyones kills, doesnt stop you from giving "professional advice" though...

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

There are 3 choices a pilot can choose between if he ends up in a chopper with you...

What about choice number 4 and 5?

4) he flies around with enough skill to allow a normal skilled gunner to get the kills?

5) he flies around and coaches the gunner so he is actually useful in the future?

This is a circular argument though. People keep saying gunners have no skill, so they want to fly alone. If they are THAT good, surely they can set up the kills for the no skill gunner? Following on from that people say they want to solo to dominate the noobs who fly the other chopter. If that's the case, then surely a 2 man crew with a skilled pilot should be able to beat a noob 2 man crew?

Just because someone asks me to leave a 2 man vehicle I should ? WTF? I'm asking them just as politely to get the ****en copter off the ground so we can go kick some ***. As you said, the biggest ******* wins.

If you've seriously got those flying skills that you think you have ( and people must have if they claim they can fly and gun better than the average person) use those skills to help others.

Sure you can go it alone, but this isn't a free for all. It is a team based game with multiple multi person vehicles.

Am I generalizing? Yes. I am. In the same way all Solo pilots generalise that everyone with less than a gajillion hours in the copter is useless.

Do I play in the heli often? No.

Am I skillless in the heli? No.

Are there people better than me in the heli? Yes.

However I don't get my rocks off doing the same thing over and over again, generally smacking the same noobs every time I play. Do I shoot noobs if I get the chance? Yes. But I have much more fun shooting down said "Professionals" in their choice vehicle than I do hitting the blind, half deaf, retarded 4 year old who's just trying the game for the first time.

The solo-er's I've spoken to are medal hounds. Does this mean they all are? Probably not. But the ones I've had exposure to are.

Hell what about argument number 6? The pilot gets out and goes and fights a ground war? Thats what he's trying to get you to do afterall....

KBK

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

What about choice number 4 and 5?

4) he flies around with enough skill to allow a normal skilled gunner to get the kills?

5) he flies around and coaches the gunner so he is actually useful in the future?

Youre assuming that theres no opposition in the air. Thats a lot of assumptions coming from you, KBK. For you see, if theres anyone skilled enough in mobile STA, STA, jets or especially choppers, those 4 and 5 points dont count. You only have a luxury of teaching someone if you have the freedom of having no opposition. And while it can be the case, remember that a sub par chopper pilot/copilot will instantly drag the whole duo down to the level of its weakest link.

People arent saying that they hate flying with bad gunners just because they dislike them. Comeon, man, use common sense. People hate newbie gunners because they need to rely on their skill level and the inexperience gets them killed without them having a say in it. No matter how you hack it, you cant zero your gunner into an experienced pilot who knows how to dodge the TVGM, most newbies cant follow a single barrel roll, me myself included.

Just because someone asks me to leave a 2 man vehicle I should ? WTF? I'm asking them just as politely to get the ****en copter off the ground so we can go kick some ***. As you said, the biggest ******* wins.

Not the biggest, but the one with the most control. Youre being as selfish and a-holish if you expect to be flown around as if it was your taxi.

If you've seriously got those flying skills that you think you have ( and people must have if they claim they can fly and gun better than the average person) use those skills to help others.

Personally, I took my sweet time in SP and LAN servers because I felt I was inadequate. I expect everyone to do the same.
As for the game being a team based game with vehicles for more than one player. All you need to do is check the first spawn event, how many people who drive off in jeeps, pick up a gunner? And thats a potentiall 3 man operating vehicle. Same for tanks.
Are there people better than me in the heli? Yes.

Hell what about argument number 6? The pilot gets out and goes and fights a ground war? Thats what he's trying to get you to do afterall....

That was option 1 or 2 anyway. Hence- "he leaves the chopper".

[Sloi sauce]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

What about choice number 4 and 5?

4) he flies around with enough skill to allow a normal skilled gunner to get the kills?

5) he flies around and coaches the gunner so he is actually useful in the future?


Clearly, you're exactly the kind of person I had in mind when I posted about people with little to zero experience opining on matters they are practically wholly ignorant of. You're dreaming in technicolor if you think it's possible to take a newbie pilot or gunner and somehow make him useful when there's experienced opposition on the ground or in the air.

This is a circular argument though. People keep saying gunners have no skill, so they want to fly alone. If they are THAT good, surely they can set up the kills for the no skill gunner? Following on from that people say they want to solo to dominate the noobs who fly the other chopter. If that's the case, then surely a 2 man crew with a skilled pilot should be able to beat a noob 2 man crew?

Nope. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about...

Sure you can go it alone, but this isn't a free for all. It is a team based game with multiple multi person vehicles.

... which, more often than not, happen to be so misused as to cause teams to lose when the wrong people enter them. As part of the team, you should be completely honest with yourself and perform other duties if you're not up to the task. Singleplayer and local servers are wonderful tools to increase your skill to the necessary level for ranked play.

Hell what about argument number 6? The pilot gets out and goes and fights a ground war? Thats what he's trying to get you to do afterall....

Uh, no?! How about we just let the best people take the heli and the rest of you do something else? Doesn't that seem like the more logical option? The alternative is buttf*ck newbie flying aimlessly or chaingunning helis 300 yards out. Yes, difficult choice indeed...

Bold. :|:

[Kayback]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Youre assuming that theres no opposition in the air. Thats a lot of assumptions coming from you, KBK.

No, not assumptions. Statements people have made on this very thread about why they want to own noobs on the other teams singlehandedly.

If there are only such noobs as competition, it isn't a problem.

And while it can be the case, remember that a sub par chopper pilot/copilot will instantly drag the whole duo down to the level of its weakest link.

Very very true, and I agree with you 100%. However there are times when one side has both choppers or something like that, in which case there is no reason to not try train someone up.

People ....most newbies cant follow a single barrel roll, me myself included.

Again very very true.

Not the biggest, but the one with the most control. Youre being as selfish and a-holish if you expect to be flown around as if it was your taxi.

No, I suprisingly expect a pilot of a 2 seat attack helicopter to fly me around as his gunner. I expect a TRANSPORT heli pilot to fly me around like a taxi.

And it is the biggest Ahole, because the other guy can ERYX or M95 you out of the cockpit and take the heli. Teamkilling by any name is still killing a team mate.

Personally, I took my sweet time in SP and LAN servers because I felt I was inadequate. I expect everyone to do the same.

Something that is enviable. I agree people should try at least hone their skill.
But I also expect to be given a chance to prove I can gun at least semi well. Solo'ers take off and redline quite often without even giving you one pass at the enemy.

As for the game being a team based game with vehicles for more than one player. All you need to do is check the first spawn event, how many people who drive off in jeeps, pick up a gunner? And thats a potentiall 3 man operating vehicle. Same for tanks.

GOD don't even start me on those. The only thing lower than a redlining solo pilot IMHO is someone who grabs any form of transport (Heli, plane, boat, APC, Tank, Humvee, DPV, Vodnik, whatever) and pisses off at full throttle when the entire army just spawned at the same place and about half of them need a ride.

I do understand that on things like map changes there are people who spawn faster, and the sooner you can get away the bigger advantage you have on that map, but for normal round ends? We all spawn at the same time, and the 3 seconds you wait for everyone to pile in means you arrive at the next flag in force, not piecemeal to be picked off by the other players who did arrive in force.

That was option 1 or 2 anyway. Hence- "he leaves the chopper".

Ok, I misunderstood that option. I thought you meant get out of the heli and wait for the gunner to get bored and leave, then take heli. My bad.

Still, there is a reason I'm a ground pounder and don't use vehicles, there are too many people who think they all belong to them specifically, and generally there are people out there who are better than me at using them anyway, so generally I'm happy to let them use it.

In a clan match I'll definately give the vehicle to the superior player, however in a public server? I've as much right to it as anyone else.

KBK

[G0ggy]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

KBK, I took soloing up as from what impression I got, soloing was extremely demanding in skill and dedication. More than 2 years have passed and I cant TV for crap (I havent really worked on honing the skill to the upmost efficiency either, just to "get by"). Soloing in a chopper demands a lot from the player, creates a need to multitask in levels unmatched in the game (except maybe the commanders seat) and creates a whole multidimensional sandbox for one to get better in. Its also incredibly fun for someone to be responsible for all the actions in his vehicle.

People dont solo to "own noobs", people solo because A) its fun, its really the "next step" and B) because theres no competent gunner in sight.

Pilots dont need to teach anyone, its up to everyone who wants to fly, to learn the basics and practice as much on their own as possible without hindering others. Just because the opposition may lack a good helicopter pilot, doesnt meant it would be fun for the pilot to train a newbie who might just leave the copilots seat after his death! And then what? Train another one? And the next one after that? Youre asking for someone to work constantly for the benefit of everyone else but their own fun, on a constant and neverending basis. Not only is that logic flawed, youve come to this conclusion obviously because your judgement is clouded by your inexperience in this very area.

[G0ggy]

Re: Chopper soloing: a problem or an art?

Inexperienced or not, so what, you go out you get mullered by a TV from the enemy attack helicopter or you missed the tank on the ground, it's a game laugh it off and move on. It's the guys that take it seriously and start swearing because you missed that make me laugh.

You go out and solo because you believe you can do it better and maybe you can, it still doesn't make it teamwork. People bound this word around like it means something and then justify it in this solo versus gunner and pilot discussion by twisting every possible reason as to why one or the other is more like teamwork. I suspect those people have never been in a situation where they consider the 'team' before they consider themselves. I'm not going to be a dramatic and talk about combat and suchlike, but take basic training for the forces or a team game such as rugby, the question of teamwork does not derive from your interpretation of the word, it comes from working as a team whether or not you agree with what is happening at the time or whether you are winning or not.

In rugby you play for the team, it is why (again IMHO) it is a far superior game than football. Very rarely does a move succeed without the whole team getting behind the player. When the captain or the scrum half decides on a particular attack, you don't go off and do your own thing because you think it will score tries and be better for the team in the long run.

In my basic training they perform a log run, where the idea is you carry a log on a stretcher for (trying to remember accurately, it was some time ago) about 3 or 5 miles. There are 8 blokes around the stretcher with 4 on it at all times. There are different strengths and abilities and obviously people will drop their corners and sometimes the log will fall. When you get to the end the instructor breaks down his opinion of how the teams performed and it is usually never the guys who crossed the finish line first, that's because their teammates got left behind and the strongest and most athletically fit people took control of the stretcher. The weaker teammates were left running behind.

It is this, in my opinion, that is teamwork. Doing something that isn't the best thing for one or more, but for the team, learning to think of others before you think of yourself. Like I said, I don't want it to sound as dramatic as it possibly does, but those that have served in the military will probably nod and understand, those that haven't will continue to argue the toss that their actions are teamwork.