*JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

[Batausu]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

If you are going to ignore the content because of 3 insults, then you deserve to be shot. Thats an insult, now come after me.

LOL!
I'm not coming after you for such a statement, after all I get shot in-game all the time, so I'm used to.
The content would have been much better without the 3 insults, though.

[ichangedmyname]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Jets can get higher scores than any other type of player EASILY (by a skilled pilot)!
However it does take skill to fly a jet that well!

Jets are far too hard too kill!
Drop their armor and weaponry, dont make them land!

This arguement is just going to go back and forth for pages and pages of 20 paragraph post by two people....

Which will be a waste of the time of everyone who wants to read/respond. took me 10 minutes to skim this topic......

Yes jets are imbalanced against other units, but they can be countered with less extreme measure then mass nerfing and rebalancing.

What I am trying to say is that there is a middle ground, not just NERF THE JETS SO THEY SUCK or HAVE THE JETS OWN EVERYONE! Neither of those things need to be done, jets currently are too strong, jet fixes proposed by the orginal poster make them far too weak!

1. Make the AA a balance between now and the uber AA days when tracking speeds of over 300, this will make it so choppers will not be targeted as easily. (Original poster, there is no way that someone can fly a jet well at less than 300 MPH, it is IMPOSSIBLE! You can not get the nose up or turn and you will hit the ground!)
2. Drop a little armor and ammo.
3. Balance the various jets.
4. Make the cannon a bit less powerful, taking out a full health APC with one quick sweep and no bombs is very unbalanced and can be done!

Just tone them down a bit and tone defense up a bit, jets won't be super ownage vehicles anymore, they will score in the range of a tanker. This makes them a desired vehicle but not an impossibly powerful one!

[.Churr.]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Points:

1. A jet going slow while is less maneuverable it is still enough to kill a chopper (with missiles) quite easily. As I say, we can test that out. I think I have like 10 hours in jets. You get the chopper and see if I can kill you.

2. You keep trying to compare a tank with a jet. No, it is silly.
If you have AT's fired in unison; jihad jeeps, TVGM, jet bombs, TOW (in the right spot) you are instantly dead. Tanks, even in city maps don't have the same ownage factor jets have everywhere. A tanker that has no deaths usually makes an exceptional round, a jetwhore that has no deaths makes a regular round.

3. If a solo with the cannon it leaves me open to AT shots and everything.

4. When you say about the dangers for a jet to land... Isn't that funny??
You are finally vulnerable... The AT soldier camping in the bushes, the engineer that mined the runway, or the teammate that wants to TK you...

Isn't this what all other players (choppers included) have to deal with EVERY TIME??? You are just being egotistical and don't want to be vulnerable, not even in a short time span... What a joke!

5. How to fix the TK stuff?? Simple programming, like
IF vehicle.team == friendly
do_not_hit()

6. About latency stuff: you admitted yourself that you can still have a good round with 150ms ping. Try to do that playing any other role.

This just shows how overpowered jets are.

Just by the way, there are a couple of things that should be fixed:

1. No lock BS: The jet pilot engages a chopper in bomb mode, and uses the cannon (or not). When they are very close, the jet switches to missiles and fire them. Usually it will hit the chopper, and if the chopper is damaged enough, will kill it. This is almost an exploit IMO.

2. Unable to take off BS: This is a general problem that also affect jets; in baserape mode, jets can simply engage their targets while they are grounded, and fire missiles (unavoidable). I think most of my deaths by jet in a chopper are result of baseraping.

There is nothing you can do but die.

1. Make the AA a balance between now and the uber AA days when tracking speeds of over 300, this will make it so choppers will not be targeted as easily. (Original poster, there is no way that someone can fly a jet well at less than 300 MPH, it is IMPOSSIBLE! You can not get the nose up or turn and you will hit the ground!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YSZ9Ib_b8 - J-10 going at 200 km/h.
Now take in consideration that the F35 can hover...

[Blades]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Points:

1. A jet going slow while is less maneuverable it is still enough to kill a chopper (with missiles) quite easily. As I say, we can test that out. I think I have like 10 hours in jets. You get the chopper and see if I can kill you.

This is the most retarded tactic you can use. The missles are NOT affected by how fast you travel. Only difference is that the pilot can get a stable lock and time to spam all 6 missles. A good jet pilot will blow the **** out of you with the cannon



4. When you say about the dangers for a jet to land... Isn't that funny??
You are finally vulnerable... The AT soldier camping in the bushes, the engineer that mined the runway, or the teammate that wants to TK you...
Jets landing is retarded. Chris' analogy to pong with rape and jets is very good in this case



1. No lock BS: The jet pilot engages a chopper in bomb mode, and uses the cannon (or not). When they are very close, the jet switches to missiles and fire them. Usually it will hit the chopper, and if the chopper is damaged enough, will kill it. This is almost an exploit IMO.
Hark who is talking. If I had to choose which is an exploit, hitting the chopper with a missle (which is almost impossible if the chopper pilot is good), or soloing the attack chopper, I would choose the latter.
2. Unable to take off BS: This is a general problem that also affect jets; in baserape mode, jets can simply engage their targets while they are grounded, and fire missiles (unavoidable). I think most of my deaths by jet in a chopper are result of baseraping.
Yeah, blame your airpower and AA guns.

There is nothing you can do but die.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YSZ9Ib_b8 - J-10 going at 200 km/h.
Now take in consideration that the F35 can hover...
Again, only unskilled noobs use this tactic

Comments in Bold.

I have absolutely no problem with jets when I am on the ground or in a chopper. Evading in a chopper when a jet is trying to get you does not just consist of barrel rolls, and turns. You have to minimize the amount of exposure you get to the jet. Strafe in his direction in an upward motion. Or just dive like crazy. I dont have that many problems with jets anymore in choppers.

The S2A does exactly what it is supposed to do. It scares jets away. I just had a round where the jets were scared to come by North Base and rape us, as I was manning the AA guns, another friend manning the ones right by North Base, and another manning the North Village ones. By manning, I mean standing by it, so you dont give off a heat signature. I ended the round 22-7, with a combination of S2A kills, and Mines on the road, along with 3 or 4 with my actual gun. Mostly S2A, and plenty of kill damage assists.

TEAMWORK brings down a jet. You sound like you just want to ground them instantly with the press of a button. Teamwork can neutralize a jet very fast, and easily. All it takes is three people and some VOIP.

[.Churr.]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Even you Blades have passed to the "other side"? Sad, sad...

1. Yes, that is what I mean. Any unskilled noob can use that to spam his missiles and kill the chopper. Even if he dies right after it.

2. Since when soloing became an exploit? I think we have topics with tons of replies regarding this so it would be pointless to go over all that again.

And this is a bit hyproctical since you do it yourself, isnt it?

3. It is funny how you say it is not a problem to evade jets, as after a long time I met you again in Wake... It was just last week I think. And guess what, we died twice against jets, with no great success in killing.

4. OK, you say "Teamwork brings down a jet". I have yet to see this working against actually skilled pilots. Especially if they are mainly raping the Carrier or the Airfield. And the word "teamwork" is also a bit scary as you must know yourself that even in a chopper (2 people) you find it difficult to have a competent gunner or pilot.

:hmm:

[Blades]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Even you Blades have passed to the "other side"? Sad, sad...

1. Yes, that is what I mean. Any unskilled noob can use that to spam his missiles and kill the chopper. Even if he dies right after it.

2. Since when soloing became an exploit? I think we have topics with tons of replies regarding this so it would be pointless to go over all that again.

And this is a bit hyproctical since you do it yourself, isnt it?

3. It is funny how you say it is not a problem to evade jets, as after a long time I met you again in Wake... It was just last week I think. And guess what, we died twice against jets, with no great success in killing.

4. OK, you say "Teamwork brings down a jet". I have yet to see this working against actually skilled pilots. Especially if they are mainly raping the Carrier or the Airfield. And the word "teamwork" is also a bit scary as you must know yourself that even in a chopper (2 people) you find it difficult to have a competent gunner or pilot.

:hmm:

I say that it is MORE of an exploit than that missle thing. Twisting my words a little, arent you.

Meh, I just get a couple friends on teamspeak, and its pretty fun to man the S2A.

For your point 3: That wasnt such a good round for me. I dont play too often, really only twice a week or so, so I get out of touch every now and then.

Btw, I would really like to fly you around again, you havent been on a Wake server in a while.

[Jedi_Joe]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Funny thing is, I have a KDR bigger than yours in everything besides jets (and airdefense - arty kills)

uhhh yeah, that dont mean your better then him/her.....just means you have played longer with the particular kit/unit/car/tank/AA/swimming :P

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Points:
1. A jet going slow while is less maneuverable it is still enough to kill a chopper (with missiles) quite easily. As I say, we can test that out. I think I have like 10 hours in jets. You get the chopper and see if I can kill you.

Wrong. A jet going slow, almost at stall speeds has a chance of taking out a chopper ONLY if the chopper is at a formidable distance. Furthemore, its only successful in doing this when a chopper is

1. Above the sea
2. Not evading
3. Out of flares

So this method is used by n00bs against n00bs. Im sorry, if your skill level is that low that a jet takes you out with missiles, all the time, dont blame DICE.

2. You keep trying to compare a tank with a jet. No, it is silly.
If you have AT's fired in unison; jihad jeeps, TVGM, jet bombs, TOW (in the right spot) you are instantly dead. Tanks, even in city maps don't have the same ownage factor jets have everywhere. A tanker that has no deaths usually makes an exceptional round, a jetwhore that has no deaths makes a regular round.

Wrong. A pilot making XX-0 round is pretty damn good. Provided that a similar pilot is airbourne and willing do dogfight and people actually man the STA posts. The regularity comes from the fact that you play too much Wake (big surprise ) and you watch China team. Sure, a J10 cannons the USMC Essex down and rapes. Thats a preemptive strike against ONE STA.

If you were so eager to bgar with a 62-0 tank round and STILL want to convince me (BTW, Ive done plenty of 50+:0 rounds in Mashtuur and Karkand, and even open area maps, like Kubra, although the score level is significantly lower for me) that tanks are any different is retarded.
3. If a solo with the cannon it leaves me open to AT shots and everything.

4. When you say about the dangers for a jet to land... Isn't that funny??
You are finally vulnerable... The AT soldier camping in the bushes, the engineer that mined the runway, or the teammate that wants to TK you...

This is where its shown that you cant think straight. A jet has to suffer if it makes mistakes during its job. A tactical mistake would be to bomb a flag, while being targeted by 2 STAs and being out of flares. You actually want to ground the planes so that players had a go at it, as opposed to create a formidable solution for players to take down a flying jet.

This is because youre a chopper whore, and as I said- anything that kills jets, devastates choppers.

Isn't this what all other players (choppers included) have to deal with EVERY TIME??? You are just being egotistical and don't want to be vulnerable, not even in a short time span... What a joke!

So you want to hand the pilot over to the TKers mercy? Niced touch of retarded balance right there. This has nothing to do with voulnerability, this is giving a jet a death sentence.

5. How to fix the TK stuff?? Simple programming, like
IF vehicle.team == friendly
do_not_hit()

Im sure if it was that easy, DICE would have made it themselves. But the fact that heatsources are universal, all the same, and you ignored it, makes me think you know jacksh!t what youre talking about, again. The only protection a friendly has, is blocked HUD marking. A live missile tracks every target it can, if it misses its primary target.

So a smart coder would make a missile deactivate itsself when it doesnt hit the first target, not create some imaginary code that wouldnt even work in BF2.

6. About latency stuff: you admitted yourself that you can still have a good round with 150ms ping. Try to do that playing any other role.

I already did. I said I get a formidable score while playing infantry at that ping. But seriously, Ive played this game for a year. With such time, if I played like a newbie, Itd be sad.

1. No lock BS: The jet pilot engages a chopper in bomb mode, and uses the cannon (or not). When they are very close, the jet switches to missiles and fire them. Usually it will hit the chopper, and if the chopper is damaged enough, will kill it. This is almost an exploit IMO.

This also means that youre a newbie. If you cant evade when the tracers start passing you, you deserve to be shot down.

Let me tell you what exploiting is- seatswitching to make missiles miss your chopper (proven by a video, lock doesnt change, but the missiles miss the chopper regardless), and using all that power of a chopper all alone.

While I dont consider it being an exploit, a mass of BF2 players do.

2. Unable to take off BS: This is a general problem that also affect jets; in baserape mode, jets can simply engage their targets while they are grounded, and fire missiles (unavoidable). I think most of my deaths by jet in a chopper are result of baseraping.

BWAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Are you fvcking serious? A grounded jet can do NOTHING against ANYONE while a chopper can still turn around! Who the fvc are you kidding with this nonsense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YSZ9Ib_b8 - J-10 going at 200 km/h.
Now take in consideration that the F35 can hover...

Tell me the tactical advantage of a jet moving at 200, and explain why would it be so hard to evade that jet.

Ill help you, since you have about 10 seconds in a jet... a J10 probably.

There are none.

Even you Blades have passed to the "other side"? Sad, sad...

1. Yes, that is what I mean. Any unskilled noob can use that to spam his missiles and kill the chopper. Even if he dies right after it.

An unskilled n00b spams the chopper with missiles only when he can, and he can only do it against newbies. You basically admit that you cant evade for sh!t. You deserve to die in that case.

2. Since when soloing became an exploit? I think we have topics with tons of replies regarding this so it would be pointless to go over all that again.

I think its a pretty known consensus that a chopper pilot ALONE shouldnt be able to use all that firepower of the chopper. And that missile hit issues with seatswitching are basically using an exploit. The fact that DICE was trying to fix it by making choppers stall also indicates that they are not happy with soloers. And the pure fact that most soloers would take their COs out of bounds, indicates that they are willing to go THAT FAR, to whore that machine.

And this is a bit hyproctical since you do it yourself, isnt it?

Oh youve proven to be a class A hypocrite yourself, no problem.

4. OK, you say "Teamwork brings down a jet". I have yet to see this working against actually skilled pilots. Especially if they are mainly raping the Carrier or the Airfield. And the word "teamwork" is also a bit scary as you must know yourself that even in a chopper (2 people) you find it difficult to have a competent gunner or pilot.

a jetwhore that has no deaths makes a regular round.

Ah, youre a moron.

[ichangedmyname]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Yes, I agree with Chris_Redfield

I spend no TIME at all in a jet, ask Chris, several months ago I asked him how to fly one! Since then I have about 6 hours... so I am not a jet whore, nor expert.

You simply can not make a jet land, if a tank gets damaged he does not have to run away, jets should not be punished for bombing someone.....

INSTEAD you should lower their ammo and health to make them go there more often!

Why would you want to fly a fighter jet at 300 miles per hour when you could crash and are easily more vulneable, just to get one chopper?

BUT SURE just cause you whine lets make the jets stall at say 399?

TONE DOWN the cannons, I agree with the original poster here.

TONE UP the AA when tracking an object in the air moving at a speed over 399.....

This will not make jets immobile pieces of **** like you want them to be, they will be about as desired and powerful as a tank.....

Edit: Also you think that choppers can't touch a jet and that jets always kill a chopper. This is just as dumb as a scenario as your guy flying around at 200, very tough to do but for the sake of arguement let me throw it in! So here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mxzv...elated&search=

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Bob, about the cannons. Best fix would be to make the splash damage as small as possible.

[strikeagle83]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

the solution is easy, just give us the missiles of 1.2

[fotrsaken]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

yeah well the good times before 1.3 are gone

[ichangedmyname]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

That works... do the AA up, jets armor and ammo down, cannons down, and put in a stall speed. That would work well, at least I think? Of course this will not happen and BF2142 is about to become the main game in a few days, so anyways..... nice arguing with ya'll =-)

[fotrsaken]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

hell at least choppers can land on the ground

[Venomous]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

the solution is easy, just give us the missiles of 1.2

you obviously werent there when people fired them....every 9 out of every 10 missles would go to a friendly and they would kill them instantly