*JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

[.Churr.]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Avoid ATA? Man youre a hypocrite. You complain about choppers not being able to avoid ATA and you are perfectly fine with jets not being able to. Good call.

You see, choppers are much more vulnerable to A2A / S2A as they cannot get out of it's range as an option to avoid the lock as jets can. Add to that the fact it's way easier for a jet to take S2A stations.

It cant. Please read my post about maneuverability and speed again. You dont have a clue what youre talking about.

Oh yes it can. A couple of cannon shots take some health and the 1 missile finish off the chopper.

You mean, make them all the same?

I mean make them balanced.

Awesome. Thanks for confessing. Now I know I shouldnt even bother talking to you about jets.

Doesn't mean I don't know how they work.

One overpas fixes 3 bars. You make an overpass in about 5-10 seconds. I think jets have 20 bars. Tell me you can fix a jet faster. Let me have a good laugh.

It is possible to land to fix it completely.

I say nerf all choppers because Sharqi offers some odd high score anomalies for the Mi-28.

The Mi-28 can't score in Sharqi if the AH-1Z does its job. Also I didn't say nerf all jets because the J-10 is too powerful, but nerf AND balance them all.

The reason why Colony got 107 kills and 0 deaths is -

1) Land troops didnt make it to the land so Colony was pretty much the ONLY person doing the real killing. If you have all the table to yourself, you are going to eat more than anyone. Jets arent to blame here, USMC land troops are. Check Metallicas video in response. Hes a good pilot and he scored 45-0. He didnt get all the killing because land troops got the rest.

OK, now tell me it's just as easy to get 45-0 as infantry.

2) Colony kept the J10 grounded. This will happen a lot more of people like you would prevail and jets had to land for repairs.

No, because colony would also be forced to land, leaving him open to attacks, thus hindering him from getting that ridiculous score. It would also give time enough for the J-10's to take off and kill him in the process of rearming. See? Perfect balance now.

How can you take off if you are shot dead with pretty much anything on the field?

You see? Again a typically egotistical view from a jet pilot. What about all other players? They are shot dead with pretty much anything ALL THE TIMES, not just when they land (in the landing scenario).

A couple of extra points-

Actually they can. PlaneWhores tank video. 47 kills, 0 deaths in a tank. Let the nerfing begin.

I can also make similar scores in a tank (my best was like 62-0 in an APC I think). But this means the enemy team is too weak, since as a say tanks have as threats C4, jets, helicopters, other tanks, APC's, TOW and Eryx. You don't have this array of options to kill a jet.

Comments not in bold.

omg!

Churrasco your comments are typical of someone that hates the vehicles in this game.

Jets are all I hate.

harder for jet to avoid missiles = 1.2, it was crap, all planes were going down constantly. it was no fun.

Yes, and that was when all jet whores, hypocritically I'd say, whined and whined so they could be invulnerable once again. And guess what, it worked!

if your chopper is being shot at by a slow moving plane, THEN FLY OUT OF THE WAY!! a jet cannot re-aim at you when going slow, it only gets you because you stay still!

YOU CANNOT FLY OUT OF THE WAY if the frigging plane is on bomb mode and knocks you from the sky in less than a second!!! This is why the frigging cannon should be nerfed so the choppers can actually escape.

If the cannon doesn't kill you, the missiles will.

a jet takes longer to repair than a tank! ~2bars repair for each runway pass, takes a LONG time to do a full repair.

OK, even if that were true, re-adjust this considering the rate of repairs jets need and tanks need. No threat = no need to repair.

Comments in bold.

did planewhore make u post this? either dont fly or just deal with it.

It doesn't need to be very good to do it. Any noob can pull similar tricks off.
This is what annoys me. They are skill-less kills.

Fact is, you jet pilots can point any argument you may have and I will counter it.
Mine are often irrefutable though. Probably most of you know this but obviously don't want the frag fest to end.

[Harmor]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Yes please fix. Don't nerf the J-10, just upgrade the F-35 and other 'fighters' to the same turning radius and lock times.

If you want to differentiate the jets, do it other than turning radius or lock speed.

Things to make the jets different (as has been mentioned):

• Top Speed
• Acceleration
• Amount of Afterburners
• Amout of Health
• Bullet Damage
• Bullet Splash
• Armor

Generally the slower the jets the more health and bigger guns it should have.

[Blades]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

I see 2 solutions:

Up the ****ing armor on choppers god damn it. That was a useless nerf...

Make it so that the bullets in a plane cannot go through that chopper glass. What happens is that the bullets go through it, register TWICE, killing the chopper twice as fast.

I dont mind planes going super super slow. Makes em really easy to TV down. Just strafe, and gain some alt, and you should be safe.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

You see, choppers are much more vulnerable to A2A / S2A as they cannot get out of it's range as an option to avoid the lock as jets can. Add to that the fact it's way easier for a jet to take S2A stations.

Choppers TVGM distance - 450 metres
STA sites lock distance - 375 metres
You say choppers cant get out of the range? I think you underestimate the usefulness of TVGM.
Choppers are a close-in air support vehicle which is designed to escort ground troops and tanks. Its not meant for solo attacking like a jet is. A jet also dont have the priviledge of using the terrain as its cover. But in the same time, every tree a chopper sets between itsself and STA, resets the lock.
ATA range is 375 metres with a 1 second lock time. The thing is, that teh whole jet needs to be turned and the lock angle is narrower than the HUD indicates. Also, a jet is on a collision course with the chopper so the chopper can easily maneuver itsself out of jets ATA missile field of view, effectively disabling its usefulness.

Oh yes it can. A couple of cannon shots take some health and the 1 missile finish off the chopper.

Looks like a result of a tactical mistake. Refer to the statement above.

I mean make them balanced.

Your idea of balance is to make jets totally useless, both taking away their presence and their ability to break stalemates in defensive/offensive engagements near flags. Youre not after balance. Youre just bitter that you cant take out a jet as easily as they can take you.
Newsflash, youre not supposed to.

Doesn't mean I don't know how they work.

Thats the thing, you dont. Otherwise you would be a little more objective on this matter.

It is possible to land to fix it completely.

Thats a 2 minute time waste. A tank doesnt have to drive to a service depot. A chopper can be fixed with a supply crate and a wrench on a field. They both can be rearmed and repaired on the field, at a high pace. A jet only has an airstrip/ carrier. Away from the field. Tell me they need an even BIGGER tactical disadvantage.
I would settle for a 1-2 unit rearming process at which a jet gets:
200 rounds of ammo
1 bomb
2 missiles
2-3 bars of health
,upon each pass. This would make their appearance a little more spaced, yet leaving them non-voulnerable. You of course like a total landing so every person on the field would try to take them out.
Heres a piece of news. When usually a jet gets taken down. They STAY down. Again, of course you didnt consider that.

The Mi-28 can't score in Sharqi if the AH-1Z does its job. Also I didn't say nerf all jets because the J-10 is too powerful, but nerf AND balance them all.

Oh really. I see Mi-28 dominating Sharqi all the time. Could it be because Cobra team sucks?
If infantry does its job, a jet does not kill 30% of all tickets all by itsself.

O

K, now tell me it's just as easy to get 45-0 as infantry.

Ok now tell me they are SUPPOSED to? Infantry is lowest unit in the food chain and always in the frontlines. Youre expecting it to have a 45-0 score? Time to come back to the ground.

No, because colony would also be forced to land, leaving him open to attacks, thus hindering him from getting that ridiculous score. It would also give time enough for the J-10's to take off and kill him in the process of rearming. See? Perfect balance now.

Jesus, what a retarded concept. Youre basically promoting a ping-pong play where each jet
Takes off - bombs - rapes opponent - lands - gets raped by opponent
*repeat process*
Is that perfect balance or is that being stupid?

You see? Again a typically egotistical view from a jet pilot. What about all other players? They are shot dead with pretty much anything ALL THE TIMES, not just when they land (in the landing scenario).

The closer to the risk you are, the more bullets fly at you. A jet doesnt capture a flag, and because of that, most of those 32 players on the ground arent trying to take it down. You basically want a jet to land, so that 32 opposing team players had a go at that one single pilot.
Thats 2 points divided between 32 players.

I can also make similar scores in a tank (my best was like 62-0 in an APC I think). But this means the enemy team is too weak, since as a say tanks have as threats C4, jets, helicopters, other tanks, APC's, TOW and Eryx. You don't have this array of options to kill a jet.

So the reason behind getting a ridiculous score is a weak team? Or an unbalanced vehicle? So which is it? If you got a 62-0 score on a tank with all these threats (that were supposed to kill you, accoording to your expectations), surely that means that the tank is inbalanced? Or is it just the simple fact that you were better than the rest of them?
Newsflash, the EXACT same thing happens in jets. Exact same thing. Better pilots score better, worse pilots score less. If there are no threats against worse pilots, they occasionally score a little better. JUST as with tanks.
Now that weve established that you are a hypocritical groundpounder with doublestandards, we can start thinking about truly balancing jets.

Jets are all I hate.

LOL, I hate choppers, as a groundpounder. Let the nerfing begin. We first start by making helicopters to carry 4 FFARs and 2 canisters of them. Also, one TVGM should be enough with 20 rounds of ammo. Surely if helo presence is constant, they should stick around for a little less time?

Yes, and that was when all jet whores, hypocritically I'd say, whined and whined so they could be invulnerable once again. And guess what, it worked!

Actually, the real problem was that the flares were INEFFECTIVE agaisnt missiles and there was a huge rise in unintentional STA and ATA teamkills. This is why STA got changed again. Not because pilots whined. As a matter of fact, most pilots adapted to the change. We have been forced to adapt since day one.

YOU CANNOT FLY OUT OF THE WAY if the frigging plane is on bomb mode and knocks you from the sky in less than a second!!! This is why the frigging cannon should be nerfed so the choppers can actually escape.
If the cannon doesn't kill you, the missiles will.

Welcome to dogfighting of BF2. If you havent mapped a rear view key to your mouse, you desere to be shot down with cannon fire.

As for missiles. If you get nailed by a jet going 300 KPH shooting missiles at you, then its adirect hint that hovering without movement is bad.


If theres a player who wants your chopper dead, they will succeed, unless you start playing really safe (which will affect your score). If a player is determined to take you down, you are going down. The same deal is with jets, with the difference that its harder for that player to kill the jet.

It doesn't need to be very good to do it. Any noob can pull similar tricks off.
This is what annoys me. They are skill-less kills.

Sp everyone who kills you with a force multiplier which is bigger than yours, is skilless? Well classed.

Fact is, you jet pilots can point any argument you may have and I will counter it.

All of your points have been countered.

Mine are often irrefutable though. Probably most of you know this but obviously don't want the frag fest to end.

Youre just pissed because a pilot ended your fragfest. Dont cry for too long.
Youre an example of a typical pointjealous statwhore.

My stance is that a jet packs too much power for one player to be able to handle the way it is now. Most of it, however comes from the fact that DICE has fracked up with finetuning. Im also open for reasonable suggestions in changing jets characteristics for balance and reducing certain aspects of its firepower. However, your changes are ridiculosly stupid and the fact that not one person has agreed with your changes proves my opinion.

[.Churr.]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Choppers TVGM distance - 450 metres
STA sites lock distance - 375 metres
You say choppers cant get out of the range? I think you underestimate the usefulness of TVGM.

Yes, you TV-GM it and it comes back again like a mosquito.

Choppers are a close-in air support vehicle which is designed to escort ground troops and tanks. Its not meant for solo attacking like a jet is. A jet also dont have the priviledge of using the terrain as its cover. But in the same time, every tree a chopper sets between itsself and STA, resets the lock.

Newsflash, you are not always able to find this kind of cover

ATA range is 375 metres with a 1 second lock time. The thing is, that teh whole jet needs to be turned and the lock angle is narrower than the HUD indicates. Also, a jet is on a collision course with the chopper so the chopper can easily maneuver itsself out of jets ATA missile field of view, effectively disabling its usefulness.

Not if the jet slows down to 10 mph

Looks like a result of a tactical mistake. Refer to the statement above.

Looks like a result of cheap, quasi-exploiting tactics. Refer to the statement above

Your idea of balance is to make jets totally useless, both taking away their presence and their ability to break stalemates in defensive/offensive engagements near flags. Youre not after balance. Youre just bitter that you cant take out a jet as easily as they can take you.
Newsflash, youre not supposed to.

Why not? You mean jets are actually supposed to be flying fortresses?

Thats the thing, you dont. Otherwise you would be a little more objective on this matter.

Thats a 2 minute time waste. A tank doesnt have to drive to a service depot. A chopper can be fixed with a supply crate and a wrench on a field. They both can be rearmed and repaired on the field, at a high pace. A jet only has an airstrip/ carrier. Away from the field. Tell me they need an even BIGGER tactical disadvantage.

Newsflash, a tank can't get to a service depot as fast as a jet can go to the airfield. And supply crates / wrench can also be used to fix or rearm a jet in case it's needed. In fact, I've played some Wake rounds where the USMC got the Airfield but we still managed to keep the J-10 flying, shiny.

I would settle for a 1-2 unit rearming process at which a jet gets:
200 rounds of ammo
1 bomb
2 missiles
2-3 bars of health
,upon each pass. This would make their appearance a little more spaced, yet leaving them non-voulnerable. You of course like a total landing so every person on the field would try to take them out.

This is what you want, to be invulnerable as you are. Thanks for confessing. Now, if all players on field are engaging the jet surely there's something wrong with your team - or theirs.

Heres a piece of news. When usually a jet gets taken down. They STAY down. Again, of course you didnt consider that.

Of course I considered that. It stays down because the enemy jet can rape the **** out of you. Now, if jets were actually kill-able this would not happen.

Oh really. I see Mi-28 dominating Sharqi all the time. Could it be because Cobra team sucks?

Yes, the Cobra team sucks. Whenever I play Sharqi in the AH-1Z, I manage to negate the Mi-28, sometimes for the whole round if I get a good pilot or fly by myself.

If infantry does its job, a jet does not kill 30% of all tickets all by itsself.

Maybe, but it will still own.

Ok now tell me they are SUPPOSED to? Infantry is lowest unit in the food chain and always in the frontlines. Youre expecting it to have a 45-0 score? Time to come back to the ground.

Yes, and jets are on the top of the food chain. See here's the problem. They are there and it's almost impossible to remove them from there.

Jesus, what a retarded concept. Youre basically promoting a ping-pong play where each jet
Takes off - bombs - rapes opponent - lands - gets raped by opponent
*repeat process*
Is that perfect balance or is that being stupid?

If you have some intelligence you can simply not enter the jet and wait for it to be killed, get the next one and kill the guy while he rearms.

The closer to the risk you are, the more bullets fly at you. A jet doesnt capture a flag, and because of that, most of those 32 players on the ground arent trying to take it down. You basically want a jet to land, so that 32 opposing team players had a go at that one single pilot.
Thats 2 points divided between 32 players.

Why not? Every other single player can have a go at all other players. Why should the jet be invulnerable?

So the reason behind getting a ridiculous score is a weak team? Or an unbalanced vehicle? So which is it? If you got a 62-0 score on a tank with all these threats (that were supposed to kill you, accoording to your expectations), surely that means that the tank is inbalanced? Or is it just the simple fact that you were better than the rest of them?
Newsflash, the EXACT same thing happens in jets. Exact same thing. Better pilots score better, worse pilots score less. If there are no threats against worse pilots, they occasionally score a little better. JUST as with tanks.
Now that weve established that you are a hypocritical groundpounder with doublestandards, we can start thinking about truly balancing jets.

Yes, because most of the enemy team was brain-dead and I had few people actually trying to kill me instead of reviving each other and throwing grenades. The difference here is that a little skill in the other team would bring me down, but on the other hand no matter how skilled you are, the jets will still own you.

LOL, I hate choppers, as a groundpounder. Let the nerfing begin. We first start by making helicopters to carry 4 FFARs and 2 canisters of them. Also, one TVGM should be enough with 20 rounds of ammo. Surely if helo presence is constant, they should stick around for a little less time?

Newsflash, choppers already suffered a HUGE nerf. (less FFARs, less TV missile range, less armor).

Actually, the real problem was that the flares were INEFFECTIVE agaisnt missiles and there was a huge rise in unintentional STA and ATA teamkills. This is why STA got changed again. Not because pilots whined. As a matter of fact, most pilots adapted to the change. We have been forced to adapt since day one.

You must be joking. No whining?? Look back at the post those days.
All pilots yelling "But it requirez no skillllll to killll with teh AA, we trained soooo hard to be a jet whore!!!!!!!!! ". In fact, you said yourself that:

"Erm. A pilot who has honed his skills up to be what he is can be shot down by a guy who "jumps into IGLA, fires 2 shots, jumps out and collects 1-2 kills".

This is not balance, ladies and gentlemen. This is mockery."

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56387

If you have a lot of unintentional TK's fix that, instead of nerfing it down to retarded weapon again.

Welcome to dogfighting of BF2. If you havent mapped a rear view key to your mouse, you desere to be shot down with cannon fire.

Nice... "dogfighting". This is the wrong word and I'd use "dogbeating" as jets have a huge advantage over choppers. FYI rear view for chopper is reasonably limited and you may not be able to see a jet coming. Also a jet can come from ANY direction. Besides if you keep frigging checking for an incoming jet and evading you render yourself useless.

As for missiles. If you get nailed by a jet going 300 KPH shooting missiles at you, then its adirect hint that hovering without movement is bad.

Guess what, jets can slow down more than that. You don't need to be hovering to get nailed.

If theres a player who wants your chopper dead, they will succeed, unless you start playing really safe (which will affect your score). If a player is determined to take you down, you are going down. The same deal is with jets, with the difference that its harder for that player to kill the jet.

Another major difference here, it's almost impossible for a player to kill a jet, unless you have another jet.

Sp everyone who kills you with a force multiplier which is bigger than yours, is skilless? Well classed.

Yes it is. Jets have a "force multiplier bigger than everything" as you say, meaning, they are plain cheap.

All of your points have been countered.

Youre just pissed because a pilot ended your fragfest. Dont cry for too long.
Youre an example of a typical pointjealous statwhore.

I don't think I am the only one annoyed by jets and jet whores.

My stance is that a jet packs too much power for one player to be able to handle the way it is now. Most of it, however comes from the fact that DICE has fracked up with finetuning. Im also open for reasonable suggestions in changing jets characteristics for balance and reducing certain aspects of its firepower. However, your changes are ridiculosly stupid and the fact that not one person has agreed with your changes proves my opinion.

Probably because all persons replying to this thread are close-minded jet players like you.

Comments in bold.

No matter what you say, my key argument is that jets are too powerful and that there are no reliable means to take them down. And this is a fact.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Yes, you TV-GM it and it comes back again like a mosquito.

All the better pilots know the spawn timing, they either retreat to the safe distance, or kill the spawned STA the moment it spawns. Why cant you? Do you prefer the easy mode?

Newsflash, you are not always able to find this kind of cover

Funny, when I first started flying choppers in the Demo I created a STA tactical map for myself and a few friends of mine. I recently found it in the "garbage" of various useless files. The tactical map consists of 3 parts.
1. General STA coverage
2. Blocked and unblocked angles of all AA
3. Safespots for choppers to either retreat or to use various map details to break the lock
Comparing this one map to all others makes me conclude that every map has a TON of areas where a chopper can reset the lock or hide completely.
The problem with jets is, that jets can not find this kind of cover, but there is a TON for the choppers- have a look at it yourself.




Choppers have no cover? They have plenty of it.

Not if the jet slows down to 10 mph

The fact that every vehicle can go 10 MPH doesnt make the jets anything special. The fact that by the time the jet is at 10 MPH, its stalling and losing altitude ultrafast, is immobile and useless, makes your argument simply - stupid.
Let me rewerite it to you, since you like to ignore things.
When jets speed falls below 800, it gradually starts losing maneuverability. At 300 KPH a jet stalls and is completely immobile. Meaning, you can not move its nose anywhere, you can not change altitudes and you fall like a brick with no control.
If you were being CONSTANTLY shot down by jets going 10 MPH, then you did a tactical mistake, and god forbid, actually paid for it.

Needless to say, it looks like the pilots you were flying against were flying for their first hour.

Looks like a result of cheap, quasi-exploiting tactics. Refer to the statement above

You were killed by something which is immobile, losing altitude fast, probably going nose down by now. Jesus, it makes me think, what the hell were you doing in front of that jet for all this time? Exploit? Its like calling a DPV driver an exploiter because he ran down an infantry unit, while going at 10 MPH!

Why not? You mean jets are actually supposed to be flying fortresses?

A "flying fortress" is a term used against heavily armored flying vehicle with a lot of firepower. A jet is a nimble creature with little armor. It has 1000 hitpoints and can be taken down with almost anything if its grounded. If its flying, it can be taken down with ONLY other jets and STA. To counterbalance this power, jets need to rearm often.

Now, the problem does not come from jets being "flying fortesses" which they of course are not, but from the fact that DICE has yet again failed to be successful in its finetuning stage, and testing stage.

To give them the credit though- in Single Player and LAN environment, missile anomalies do not exist. These problems of missiles not hitting jets are created by faulty netcode and mistakes made more than a year ago when DICE originally designed the jets, and misplaced heatsourses and created odd hitbox meshes.

Heres where you completely fail and people listen to me, a little. I know where the real problem is and I know how to fix it, you dont know and think you do, and you come up with stupid "solutions" to ground jets completely. Lucky for me, for us, that DICE doesnt take your kind seriously.

Newsflash, a tank can't get to a service depot as fast as a jet can go to the airfield.

A tank has what, 40+ rounds of cannon ammo and an unlimited supply of 7.62 ammunition rounds? A tank doesnt have to go to a service depot to rearm, that often. In fact, would be a lucky coincidence if a tank was forced to go to rearm two, or even one time a round.

A jet on the other hand has to go to rearm every time it drops its payload, to keep its anti armor combat potential.

A tank can be repaired and rearmed through the duration of its combat or presence in the hotzone. Meaning- even if you damage that tank, its still going to be kicking *** around the place.

A jet does not affect combat situation as much as a good armor driver or helo pilot does. A jet does not guide the outcome game as much as a very skilled chopper duo or tankdriver does.

And while PW disagrees with me on this one, I personally from my personal experience, have seen USMC being driven back into the sea because they just couldnt stand a chance against a chopper, which killed both infantry and armor upon spawn, thus making flag captures simple task for their ground troops.

Ive seen Gulf of Oman, USMC being driven into the sea in less than 4 minutes. That was a horrible sight. I have never seen a jet influence the outcome of combat like a chopper does. A jet is more powerful, yes. It packs a bigger punch and eats choppers. But it will never decide the battle around flags like a chopper can do.

Churrasco, a chopper pilot. Man this reeks of hypocrisy.

And supply crates / wrench can also be used to fix or rearm a jet in case it's needed.

The fact that there are a few limited areas on a map where a jet can land, makes me think again, that you have no idea what youre talking about. Youre using this rare exception to compare a tank to a jet trying to make them sound equal. This is more like a bad joke.

In fact, I've played some Wake rounds where the USMC got the Airfield but we still managed to keep the J-10 flying, shiny.

Thats because you were in a J-10, and USMC probably had lousy pilots in an already weak dogfighter, the F35B. Nice example... of playing with people who are simply amateurs. Is this really the way you want to prove a point? By using newbies as a means to prove that jets are imbalanced?

Your tank endeavour which resulted in 62-0 is a fine example of how tanks going 62-0 against newbies is OK, yet a jet going 107-0 against infantry and grounded jets no less, is not OK.

Hypocrite much?

This is what you want, to be invulnerable as you are. Thanks for confessing. Now, if all players on field are engaging the jet surely there's something wrong with your team - or theirs.

Lucky for me, that I know the difference between tactical disadvantage and tactical sentence of death. You dont, because you are probably the only chopper pilot being killed with a jet going at 10 MPH .

A jet being airbourne does not mean its invoulnerable, a jet being IGNORED and UNENGAGED means people let it to be "Invoulnerable".

This here is the fact of BF2. Jets are only as free as people let them to be. And trust me, you bitching about jets, while you fly in front of a 10 MPH stalling and falling jet will not change anything.

Of course I considered that. It stays down because the enemy jet can rape the **** out of you. Now, if jets were actually kill-able this would not happen.

So youre telling me the effective range of STA should be big enough to never let a jet to baserape you? Good point... I like it.

















































No I dont.




Heres a tactical map of a STA covering ~700 metres (close to maximum jet altitude to prevent vertical attacks), I would have liked to draw a 900 metre tactical coverage STA map but fvck me, DICE didnt make a picture of maps with MORE non-combat zone. God damn them. As I said, thank god DICE would never even consider taking you seriously.

Yes, the Cobra team sucks. Whenever I play Sharqi in the AH-1Z, I manage to negate the Mi-28, sometimes for the whole round if I get a good pilot or fly by myself.

Fly by yourself? Surely youre exploiting a vehicle designed to be manned by two? Did you also know that seatswitching makes STA missiles miss your helicopter? So youre double-exploiting the chopper. So while youre bitching about "jets being too powerful" you have no problems with using the second most powerful tool on the field all by yourself, while exploiting it too, even! Damn! HypocriteX2 much?

Mi-28 keeping the Cobra grounded is a prime exampe what would happen if a jet needs to land to rearm. Youre a chopper whore, you know it yourself, that the best time to TVGM a chopper is when its going for repairs. Even at being repaired a chopper technically is still mobile. A chopper also doesnt need to slow down for approach, taxi to repair area, then take off. Through all of this time being voulnerable to all kinds of attack forms.

So while you want your chopper to be invoulnerable, or potentially invoulnerable, you have no problems with a jet being useless, because it doesnt allow you to rape on the field?

HypocriteX3 much?

Maybe, but it will still own.

So does a good player on the field. So does a chopper and a tank. Would you like me to go over the whole game with a nerfstick, just because some players are actually THAT damn good that they can own the living crap out of others because of their pure skill? Please, try to convince me that Colonys 107-0 is a standard, then maybe youve convinced me that jets need a serious overhaul, to make them useless. Until then, please...

In your "fix" scenario, a jet will "own" someone, something, every 2-3 minutes. I dont think thats much of "owning".

Jets needing rearm and repair were pretty much perfectly demonstrated in Warrock, where they needed to land. But in that game, it took you 1 minute or even more, to reach the enemy main base. In BF2 I can do it in 15 seconds and less.

Yes, and jets are on the top of the food chain. See here's the problem. They are there and it's almost impossible to remove them from there.

Youve got STA and other jets. I see no problem. Most of the problems coming from enemy jet raping your team, is because your team lacks a competent pilot to take them down. Holy sh!t! Did I just say that? I could have sworn youve said -

Yes, because most of the enemy team was brain-dead and I had few people actually trying to kill me instead of reviving each other and throwing grenades.

- about you going 62-0 on a tank! Justifying your OVERLY HIGH score by ridiculing the enemy!

Now heres the funny part you constantly ignore: This is the same thing happening to jets.

You were going 62-0 on a tank, regardless of the combat potential of 32 enemy AT soldiers, TOWs, landmines, C4 and grenades. All this combat potential and you still didnt die. Exploiting an overly powerful vehicle or pure skill?

Jets are exactly the same. You can draw Colonys attention right now, call him here and he will tell you what Im going to tell you now-

If there was a competent J10 pilot in air, contesting him, he would have never made 107-0.

So again- HypocriteX4 much?

If you have some intelligence you can simply not enter the jet and wait for it to be killed, get the next one and kill the guy while he rearms.

This is sigworthy. So you are intentionally creating a situation of a ping-pong baseraping fest. Tell me the practical side of this solution.

I do know one thing, choppers will be left unharmed, raping the troops with no contest.

HypocriteX5 much?

Why not? Every other single player can have a go at all other players. Why should the jet be invulnerable?

You went 62-0 in a tank, regardless of everyone having a go at you. Quit wasting my god damn time with your hypocrisy.

Yes, because most of the enemy team was brain-dead and I had few people actually trying to kill me instead of reviving each other and throwing grenades. The difference here is that a little skill in the other team would bring me down, but on the other hand no matter how skilled you are, the jets will still own you.

When a jet goes 107-0, the pilot who jumped into the other jet was a complete moron who got shot down or crashed. When a pilot goes 107-0, he stays out of STA harms way and eliminates the threat before it can elimitate him. So basically, Colony reaped the benefits created by a useless team. You want all jets to be totally nerfed because a team could not let good pilots fly and defend them. Yet you have no problem with USMC chopper crew chewing up everything on the beach at the same time (yes, Blades was there).

HypocriteX7 much?

Newsflash, choppers already suffered a HUGE nerf. (less FFARs, less TV missile range, less armor).

They still own. I want a further nerf. I want them to not to own. If they stop owning, the nerf is complete.

You must be joking. No whining?? Look back at the post those days.
All pilots yelling "But it requirez no skillllll to killll with teh AA, we trained soooo hard to be a jet whore!!!!!!!!! ". In fact, you said yourself that:
"Erm. A pilot who has honed his skills up to be what he is can be shot down by a guy who "jumps into IGLA, fires 2 shots, jumps out and collects 1-2 kills".
This is not balance, ladies and gentlemen. This is mockery."
http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56387

If DICE intended one STA to be a force multiplier of higher stage, against aircrafts, they would have probably made it so that one or two STA sites covered all of the map. Instead they have a lot of STAs with small coverage scrambled across the map. This is a clear hint that DICE intended one STA NOT to be an answer to the air threat. One STA also has no tactical advantages over a jet. Two have a possibility of a flank attack.

So no, I dont want one player to have a 2 click go at me just because he sits in a STA, points at me and shoots, then jumps back out, UNLESS I make a tactical mistake or a mistake of skills.

Nice... "dogfighting". This is the wrong word and I'd use "dogbeating" as jets have a huge advantage over choppers.

I wasnt talking about jets dogfighting choppers. Which brings me to this-

There are numerous players taking down jets with TVGM, seemingly with ease. Why not nerf TVGM?

FYI rear view for chopper is reasonably limited and you may not be able to see a jet coming.

God forbid a pilot actually attacks you from your blindside.
God forbid they are actually smart.
God forbid you use fly by view to have a wider area of coverage behind you.

Besides if you keep frigging checking for an incoming jet and evading you render yourself useless.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Yet you have no problems keeping the jets grounded to render THEM completely useless? What a JOKE!

HypocriteX7 much?

Guess what, jets can slow down more than that. You don't need to be hovering to get nailed.

Quess what, a jet at 300 has almost no maneuverability and less than 300 makes it fall like a rock. If you get killed by a jet doing that, you are an amateur and deserve to be killed.

Another major difference here, it's almost impossible for a player to kill a jet, unless you have another jet.

Meh, I have killed PLENTY of jets with STA. And Ive killed countless of jets while being in another jet. Because Im relentless. So can be you.

Yes it is. Jets have a "force multiplier bigger than everything" as you say, meaning, they are plain cheap.

Tanks are a force multiplier over infantry, they are cheap, you use them in city maps. HypocriteX8 much?

Helicopters are a force multiplier over infantry and armor, you use them in maps with no jets. HypocriteX9 much?

Quit wasting my god damn time with your crap.

I don't think I am the only one annoyed by jets and jet whores.

I think its reasonable to say that Im not the only one being annoyed by YOU.

Probably because all persons replying to this thread are close-minded jet players like you.

LOL, wouldnt that include you too?

No matter what you say, my key argument is that jets are too powerful and that there are no reliable means to take them down. And this is a fact.

By reliable, you have an odd wish for an instakill 110% efficiency weapon. While you have no problems soloing a chopper, often finishing with a 0 death score. Or even using a tank, finishing with a 0 death score.


You are a hypocritical statwhore.

[Batausu]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Since day one, a lot of nerfs happened.

You are right, some needed, some not.
Suggested fixes that cannot/should not be used:

1. Nerf up the F-35 (against J-10 imbalance).

I agree.
Suggested fixes that cannot/should not be used:

2. Nerf up the AA in any way, including:
2a: Improving lock-on
2b: Improving range
2c: Creating an AA class, like AT
2d: Mobile AA's in all maps.
This would kill choppers.

I agree with those, but I have another 'nerf up' proposition:
2e: increase the armor for S2A sites and especially the Essex guns. These guns should be extremely difficult to destroy and should have a self repairing feature, since are placed on the carrier -> no more carrier rape.
Even with greater armor, S2A sites are easier to deal with, since the soldier inside is not protected and could be easily killed by a jet or a chopper, but another soldier waiting nearby could have a chance to jump in and retaliate.

Suggested fixes that can / should be used:

1. Nerf the jet's cannon. It's utterly retarded to have a such powerful cannon in game. Who flies choppers of any kind knows that a jet can make a single run (in bomb mode, so no warning) and in less than a second you are toast and like "WTF?".
That thing needs to be down to something closer to the AH-1Z or Z-10's cannon. Or better, no cannon at all!

It's true, a jet is very good against a chopper. But removing their guns?! It's like removing the grenades. Perhaps lower damage or lower rate of fire could be the answer.

2. Jets should stall on low speeds.

As far as I know, this is already implemented. I may be wrong, though, since my experience in a jet is limited.

3. Decrease jet armor: It is also a good idea to bring down it's armor so a single AA missile hit kills it and a chopper hydra leaves it flaming. This would also make them more wary to engage targets with low health.

How about a plane's armor is made inverse proportional with its maneuverability? The better it can fly, the lower armor it gets. J10 would be shot down by a single missile, while the others by 2 (jets) or 3 (bombers).

4. Jets should land to repair or rearm.
Forcing them to land would give all other players to have a chance to take the mofo down, besides decreasing the time a jet can have in the air.

This is out of the question. I don't fly much, but when I do, I recon it's already time consuming to make full repairs to a jet after getting hit.
Having to land for repairs would be a certain death for any plane. People would camp airfields in jeeps or as AT, waiting for the poor pilot to land for reloading his weapons. Think about it!

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Batusu, theres plenty of good Air change threads going on. The general consensus is that every map needs one Mobile STA per jet. Or one Mobile STA per two STA sites.

[Batausu]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

These are just wishes and small talk, I know it will never happen...

[.Churr.]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

All the better pilots know the spawn timing, they either retreat to the safe distance, or kill the spawned STA the moment it spawns. Why cant you? Do you prefer the easy mode?

What happens is, if you keep doing that you waste a lot of your missiles in the process, and you have to rearm. A jet can EASILY kill a STA with a couple of shots, rape, rearm, rinse and repeat.

Choppers have no cover? They have plenty of it.

Show me where you have cover in Wake. Or when you are heading from / to the Carrier. Also its risky to use this kind of cover as flying so low makes you an easy target for enemy TV-GM's.

The fact that every vehicle can go 10 MPH doesnt make the jets anything special. The fact that by the time the jet is at 10 MPH, its stalling and losing altitude ultrafast, is immobile and useless, makes your argument simply - stupid.
Let me rewerite it to you, since you like to ignore things.
When jets speed falls below 800, it gradually starts losing maneuverability. At 300 KPH a jet stalls and is completely immobile. Meaning, you can not move its nose anywhere, you can not change altitudes and you fall like a brick with no control.

If you were being CONSTANTLY shot down by jets going 10 MPH, then you did a tactical mistake, and god forbid, actually paid for it.

Needless to say, it looks like the pilots you were flying against were flying for their first hour.

You were killed by something which is immobile, losing altitude fast, probably going nose down by now. Jesus, it makes me think, what the hell were you doing in front of that jet for all this time? Exploit? Its like calling a DPV driver an exploiter because he ran down an infantry unit, while going at 10 MPH!

Funny thing is, a J10 can go at 200 km/h without stalling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YSZ9Ib_b8

(made by metallica)

Now, you see, any noob can pick a jet, slow down like this and take the chopper down with missiles only (even if they die in the process). Not to talk about the cannon of doom.

A "flying fortress" is a term used against heavily armored flying vehicle with a lot of firepower. A jet is a nimble creature with little armor. It has 1000 hitpoints and can be taken down with almost anything if its grounded. If its flying, it can be taken down with ONLY other jets and STA. To counterbalance this power, jets need to rearm often.

Explain to me how is this "balance" as rearming is a quick pass over the airfield? (taking a couple of seconds?) But no, if it had to actually LAND to do that, that would be true balance.

Now, the problem does not come from jets being "flying fortesses" which they of course are not, but from the fact that DICE has yet again failed to be successful in its finetuning stage, and testing stage.

To give them the credit though- in Single Player and LAN environment, missile anomalies do not exist. These problems of missiles not hitting jets are created by faulty netcode and mistakes made more than a year ago when DICE originally designed the jets, and misplaced heatsourses and created odd hitbox meshes.

Heres where you completely fail and people listen to me, a little. I know where the real problem is and I know how to fix it, you dont know and think you do, and you come up with stupid "solutions" to ground jets completely. Lucky for me, for us, that DICE doesnt take your kind seriously.

If you can't play without these "anomalies" online or fix them, this should either be fixed or balanced some other way. Saying that the anomalous power a jet has is result of sloppy coding does not justify why it should remain so or why nothing has been done about it.

A tank has what, 40+ rounds of cannon ammo and an unlimited supply of 7.62 ammunition rounds? A tank doesnt have to go to a service depot to rearm, that often. In fact, would be a lucky coincidence if a tank was forced to go to rearm two, or even one time a round.

A jet on the other hand has to go to rearm every time it drops its payload, to keep its anti armor combat potential.

No, a tank just appears to not need constant rearming. The truth is, it dies much more often so it doesn't need to rearm. Or when it survives, it's because supply crates were supporting it, thus repairing and rearming. Not to mention infantry ammo bags that magically resupply the tank.

Also it needs to repair itself often. As a slow moving vehicle it cannot avoid incoming missiles / tank shells / whatever as easy as an APC does. The APC on the other hand is more fragile and has limited ammo. I'd say it's kinda balanced.

A tank can be repaired and rearmed through the duration of its combat or presence in the hotzone. Meaning- even if you damage that tank, its still going to be kicking *** around the place.

If you damage your jet, what stops you from killing people?

A jet does not affect combat situation as much as a good armor driver or helo pilot does. A jet does not guide the outcome game as much as a very skilled chopper duo or tankdriver does.

Sure they don't. Mostly, they are too busy point farming.

And while PW disagrees with me on this one, I personally from my personal experience, have seen USMC being driven back into the sea because they just couldnt stand a chance against a chopper, which killed both infantry and armor upon spawn, thus making flag captures simple task for their ground troops.

Ive seen Gulf of Oman, USMC being driven into the sea in less than 4 minutes. That was a horrible sight. I have never seen a jet influence the outcome of combat like a chopper does. A jet is more powerful, yes. It packs a bigger punch and eats choppers. But it will never decide the battle around flags like a chopper can do.

Newsflash, you CAN bring a chopper down relatively easy, or at least force it to retreat/repair. This statement is NOT TRUE when you replace the word "chopper" with the word "jet".

Churrasco, a chopper pilot. Man this reeks of hypocrisy.

Ahn...

The fact that there are a few limited areas on a map where a jet can land, makes me think again, that you have no idea what youre talking about. Youre using this rare exception to compare a tank to a jet trying to make them sound equal. This is more like a bad joke.

Thats because you were in a J-10, and USMC probably had lousy pilots in an already weak dogfighter, the F35B. Nice example... of playing with people who are simply amateurs. Is this really the way you want to prove a point? By using newbies as a means to prove that jets are imbalanced?

I am just saying that it IS possible and plausible. The J-10 in question managed to get the Gold Medal, even though we lost the Airfield before half of the round.

Your tank endeavour which resulted in 62-0 is a fine example of how tanks going 62-0 against newbies is OK, yet a jet going 107-0 against infantry and grounded jets no less, is not OK.

Hypocrite much?

You don't seem to understand. A jet can easily shoot down grounded jets and choppers and camp these spawn points, regardless of how skilled the victimes were. You CANNOT do the same with tanks. You CANNOT walk with the tank in a main base, kill the other tank and go away like nothing happened.

Lucky for me, that I know the difference between tactical disadvantage and tactical sentence of death. You dont, because you are probably the only chopper pilot being killed with a jet going at 10 MPH .

OK, so let's play sometime, you and me. You take the chopper and I the jet. I have no experience at all with jets, but I will still kill you.

A jet being airbourne does not mean its invoulnerable, a jet being IGNORED and UNENGAGED means people let it to be "Invoulnerable".

Now, tell me how you are supposed to "ENGAGE" a jet. You have only AA if your jets are grounded. And we all know AA sucks.

This here is the fact of BF2. Jets are only as free as people let them to be. And trust me, you bitching about jets, while you fly in front of a 10 MPH stalling and falling jet will not change anything.

10 MPH is just a way to say. Jets can go very slow without stalling or falling, as pointed by the video above. Note that it is with the J-10. The F35 can HOVER.

So youre telling me the effective range of STA should be big enough to never let a jet to baserape you? Good point... I like it.

Heres a tactical map of a STA covering ~700 metres (close to maximum jet altitude to prevent vertical attacks), I would have liked to draw a 900 metre tactical coverage STA map but fvck me, DICE didnt make a picture of maps with MORE non-combat zone. God damn them. As I said, thank god DICE would never even consider taking you seriously.

I just think the AA should be able to shoot down jets as easily as they can shoot down choppers. As of now, choppers will get hit if the missile is fired before flares are deployed. The Essex should be improved, and all main bases should have AA stations similar to the Essex.

Fly by yourself? Surely youre exploiting a vehicle designed to be manned by two? Did you also know that seatswitching makes STA missiles miss your helicopter? So youre double-exploiting the chopper. So while youre bitching about "jets being too powerful" you have no problems with using the second most powerful tool on the field all by yourself, while exploiting it too, even! Damn! HypocriteX2 much?

I never used seatswitching with the intention of making STA missiles miss. And now I think this is not even possible anymore due to 1.4 changes to the missiles. They now will hit the target if locked; flares won't work if you drop them after the missile is fired (most of the time).

These changes affected choppers more than jets. And saying that it is an "exploit" is just retarded. A solo chopper is not as good as a good crew. And you cannot rely on retarded pilots or gunners. How would you feel if all jets had 2 seats, and you were forced to line your "gunner" to drop bombs or fire missiles, while you had only the cannon?

I have lots of arguments supporting solo flight, but I won't listed them as they are too many.

Mi-28 keeping the Cobra grounded is a prime exampe what would happen if a jet needs to land to rearm. Youre a chopper whore, you know it yourself, that the best time to TVGM a chopper is when its going for repairs. Even at being repaired a chopper technically is still mobile. A chopper also doesnt need to slow down for approach, taxi to repair area, then take off. Through all of this time being voulnerable to all kinds of attack forms.

So while you want your chopper to be invoulnerable, or potentially invoulnerable, you have no problems with a jet being useless, because it doesnt allow you to rape on the field?

I never said it is reasonable that the Mi-28 can rape the AH-1Z spawn. In fact, I am usually on the other side, killing the Havoc and stopping that from happening. And this is for Sharqi only. Jets own in every map they are present.

And you see, you contradicted yourself. If a chopper is vulnerable while repairing, how is it invulnerable? Oh wait, problem here. A chopper is vulnerable ALL THE TIME as it provides closer air support than jets.

So does a good player on the field. So does a chopper and a tank. Would you like me to go over the whole game with a nerfstick, just because some players are actually THAT damn good that they can own the living crap out of others because of their pure skill? Please, try to convince me that Colonys 107-0 is a standard, then maybe youve convinced me that jets need a serious overhaul, to make them useless. Until then, please...

Yes, 107-0 is a very good score with a jet, but while a good jet pilot can do 50-0 or more in a regular basis you cannot say the same about any other vehicle or infantry in game.

In your "fix" scenario, a jet will "own" someone, something, every 2-3 minutes. I dont think thats much of "owning".

2-3 minutes to land? Oh PLEASE...

Jets needing rearm and repair were pretty much perfectly demonstrated in Warrock, where they needed to land. But in that game, it took you 1 minute or even more, to reach the enemy main base. In BF2 I can do it in 15 seconds and less.

And... Why would this stop it from being implemented in BF2? Just because you can get killed in the process - the ONLY time when you actually are vulnerable?

Youve got STA and other jets. I see no problem. Most of the problems coming from enemy jet raping your team, is because your team lacks a competent pilot to take them down. Holy sh!t! Did I just say that? I could have sworn youve said -

Greaaaat... If my team has a competent pilot to take them down, this just changes the raped side. Now the ENEMY team gets raped and can't get up . This is stupidity, not balance.

- about you going 62-0 on a tank! Justifying your OVERLY HIGH score by ridiculing the enemy!

Now heres the funny part you constantly ignore: This is the same thing happening to jets.

You were going 62-0 on a tank, regardless of the combat potential of 32 enemy AT soldiers, TOWs, landmines, C4 and grenades. All this combat potential and you still didnt die. Exploiting an overly powerful vehicle or pure skill?

Jets are exactly the same. You can draw Colonys attention right now, call him here and he will tell you what Im going to tell you now-

If there was a competent J10 pilot in air, contesting him, he would have never made 107-0.

So again- HypocriteX4 much?

How nice, if there was a competent J-10 pilot in air, the USMC would get raped. Flying jets usually mean, whoever takes the enemy jet down first gets to rape the enemy team (because now on you are invulnerable!).

This is sigworthy. So you are intentionally creating a situation of a ping-pong baseraping fest. Tell me the practical side of this solution.

I do know one thing, choppers will be left unharmed, raping the troops with no contest.

HypocriteX5 much?

Practical side is, jets are now balanced and can no longer rape getting away unharmed.

Choppers still face all the threats they had before, that is: jets, other helicopters, AA (stationary and mobile), jeep's MG, APC's and tanks, AT missiles (TOW/HJ/Eryx/SRAW) and even small arms fire.

You went 62-0 in a tank, regardless of everyone having a go at you. Quit wasting my god damn time with your hypocrisy.

Guess why? Because they didn't want to. Even if I want to, I cannot take the jets down as easily as I would kill any armor whore.

When a jet goes 107-0, the pilot who jumped into the other jet was a complete moron who got shot down or crashed. When a pilot goes 107-0, he stays out of STA harms way and eliminates the threat before it can elimitate him. So basically, Colony reaped the benefits created by a useless team. You want all jets to be totally nerfed because a team could not let good pilots fly and defend them. Yet you have no problem with USMC chopper crew chewing up everything on the beach at the same time (yes, Blades was there).

HypocriteX7 much?

I just can say that although 107-0 is a high score, 50+ - 0 is a regular score for a good jet player, disregarding the enemy team's skills. And it's funny how the mistake of one guy is going to affect the whole team for the whole round. Talk about fairness...

Oh, and as you see, Blades scored 29-4. And Raven is a pretty good pilot. You, see here, a jet whore can kill 3x more and not die comparing to the chopper crew.

They still own. I want a further nerf. I want them to not to own. If they stop owning, the nerf is complete.

As said by PlaneWhore once "I have yet to see a chopper crew of any kind outscore me". A KEY word in choppers is "crew". You need a good crew to be effective. This is especially difficult in pub servers. Whereas, a jet whore just needs a good M95.

If DICE intended one STA to be a force multiplier of higher stage, against aircrafts, they would have probably made it so that one or two STA sites covered all of the map. Instead they have a lot of STAs with small coverage scrambled across the map. This is a clear hint that DICE intended one STA NOT to be an answer to the air threat. One STA also has no tactical advantages over a jet. Two have a possibility of a flank attack.

The truth is you could have all the STA manned and the jet whore would still kill them all. They are almost useless against jets no matter what you try to do.

So no, I dont want one player to have a 2 click go at me just because he sits in a STA, points at me and shoots, then jumps back out, UNLESS I make a tactical mistake or a mistake of skills.

Other words: I want to remain invulnerable, because I jet whore too much and the poor bastards on ground can't do anything about it.

See, 1.2 was a good step towards air balance, but all the whining of these so-called "skilled" jet players nerfed it down.

I wasnt talking about jets dogfighting choppers. Which brings me to this-

There are numerous players taking down jets with TVGM, seemingly with ease. Why not nerf TVGM?

Because it takes way less skill for a jet to kill a chopper. A skilled jet player will never die against a chopper regardless of the crew's skills. A mid-skilled jet player will have not much trouble taking a very skilled chopper crew.

Players actually capable of taking down jets with TVGM are very few, and besides skill it requires a bit of luck and a lof of stupidity from the enemy jet pilot.

God forbid a pilot actually attacks you from your blindside.
God forbid they are actually smart.
God forbid you use fly by view to have a wider area of coverage behind you.

It doesn't matter, even if you are prepared to evade, the jet will still hit you. Somebody determined to kill you WILL succeed, even if it takes some more passes.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Yet you have no problems keeping the jets grounded to render THEM completely useless? What a JOKE!

HypocriteX7 much?

Jets don't need to be grounded. It will just force the pilots to actually be more careful.

Quess what, a jet at 300 has almost no maneuverability and less than 300 makes it fall like a rock. If you get killed by a jet doing that, you are an amateur and deserve to be killed.

Refer to statements above.

Meh, I have killed PLENTY of jets with STA. And Ive killed countless of jets while being in another jet. Because Im relentless. So can be you.

If you kill a jet with STA, the pilot is braindead.

Tanks are a force multiplier over infantry, they are cheap, you use them in city maps. HypocriteX8 much?

Infantry can kill a tank, but can't kill a jet

Helicopters are a force multiplier over infantry and armor, you use them in maps with no jets. HypocriteX9 much?

The only map with choppers and no jets is Sharqi, where I mostly use the AH-1Z to keep the Mi-28 grounded.

Quit wasting my god damn time with your crap.

I think its reasonable to say that Im not the only one being annoyed by YOU.

Jet whores, unite!

LOL, wouldnt that include you too?

Why?

By reliable, you have an odd wish for an instakill 110% efficiency weapon. While you have no problems soloing a chopper, often finishing with a 0 death score. Or even using a tank, finishing with a 0 death score.

By reliable I mean a weapon that is on par with the jet, not just a sitting duck.

Chopper crews rarely finish with 0 death score. Tankers, even more rarely. Now jets can do it in a regular basis.

You are a hypocritical statwhore.

I don't care about stats. I care about balance

Comments in bold.

My key point, which is, the jet's power is overwhelming and cannot be countered, cannot be disproven.

And just a side note, you keep saying about "latency" and stuff, but the jet is the one of the easiest vehicles, if not THE EASIEST to use if your ping is >160. When people I know from Brazil play in US servers, they always take the jet. And they still pwn.

[Batausu]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

The general consensus is that every map needs one Mobile STA per jet. Or one Mobile STA per two STA sites.

AA vehicles are not possible on a map where USMC has no base on land in the beginning, Wake in particular.
Why? If Chinese would have AA vehicles, getting to land would be even more difficult for USMC, if not impossible, since they don't get air protection from AA vehicles.
So increasing the armor on S2A sites would provide an useful alternative to AA vehicles.

[.Churr.]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

AA vehicles are not possible on a map where USMC has no base on land in the beginning, Wake in particular.
Why? If Chinese would have AA vehicles, getting to land would be even more difficult for USMC, if not impossible, since they don't get air protection from AA vehicles.
So increasing the armor on S2A sites would provide an useful alternative to AA vehicles.

Well, you don't need to have Chinese and USMC spawning the same vehicles.

But I am against implementation of more Mobile AA's as this would drastically reduce the efficiency of the attack choppers.

BTW, I made a couple of edits in the post above.

[RocketChild]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Sorry, I did not read all the lengthy posts but I have a simple suggestion to counter the jets "some" and not cripple the helos.

Just increase the range of the AA missles and increase the rate the helo's flares regenerate. Do not change anything on jets.

My thoughts are that if the jet is why out of visual range of the AA that is firing at it, it can not return fire unless it finds the AA nest. Helos, being much slower, would get taken down quicker with random AA firing. But if they had a quicker flare regeneration/deployment, maybe they would be able to hold off a incoming AA for a bit longer.

I hate to say IRL, but IRL, AA is normally very deadly and accurate. And yes IRL, jets are almost unstoppable too. I say increase the AA range 35% and double the spead of the helo flares. This might suck on a map like Sharqi, where helos rape constantly, but hell, that is just how it goes...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Comments in bold.

Way too much bullsh!t, no counter for my arguments and constant ignoring. I really wont be answering to that shi!t you posted because Ive written the same stuff for 3 times.

My key point, which is, the jet's power is overwhelming and cannot be countered, cannot be disproven.

Actually, you didnt have any point. You just wanted to nerf the jets into oblivion and you justify ping-pong rape as a good balance method. The fact that noone agrees with you, proves MY key point about you.

I agree with you that a jet is too much of a powerful tool for one man to handle. Ive also come up with a list of adjustments.

1. Balancing the jets (made a fullsize topic, created my own jet balance modification, experiment pretty much done)
2. Creating a more skill based system which will also spare choppers from jets missile use, making jets rely more on cannons (made a fullsize topic, created my own jet mod to test it out)
3. Reduction of jets bomb splash damage radius to make them more of an "anti armor" weapon, rather than anti-infantry.
4. Increasing jets cannons bullet grouping to make it harder to sniper STA out from visual range.
5. Reduce missile payload from 6 to 4 and 4 to 2 on fighters and bombers respectively.
6. Make it so one pass supplies one full unit of certain payloads. If a jet is empty, it should take 3 passes to fully rearm itsself, in the same time, reduce on-strip chopper repair and rearm speed. Repair speed by 2 and rearm speed by 4 times.
7. Make it so that STA sites are not marked on the HUD.
8. Equalize jets hitbox meshes and make it so that STA missiles have an exceptionally high rate of hit, balanced with limited range.

These fixes will reduce air aspects impact on the field while still keeping them there.

While my fixes take Battlefield 2 fun dynamics into account, yours dont.

And just a side note, you keep saying about "latency" and stuff, but the jet is the one of the easiest vehicles, if not THE EASIEST to use if your ping is >160.

Latency affects jets very much. This has to do with missile detection, missile tracking and cannon detection, aswell as defensive reaction to attacks. The ONLY thing unaffected is bombing, for the same reason people enjoy using grenades. Splash damage isnt affected by ping. Direct projectile weapons are.

When people I know from Brazil play in US servers, they always take the jet. And they still pwn.

Do they "pwn" because they are good, or because they fly jets?

You see, during my BF2 "career", there has been NO bad pilot reigning over the skies when Im around. This is not bragging because people have beaten me and there are a bunch of better pilots around.

So when a jet does get the kills, its because its supposed to. In fact, any lesser KDR than 10:1 in a jet means the pilot is a rookie. Any lesser KDR in a tank means the driver is a rookie and any lesser KDR than 1:1 on land means the player is a rookie. This is what force multiplier is all about. Certain vehicles act as tools to create better results. And Im talking about offensive tools. A jet is supposed to deliver a punch, and have a high KDR in the process. Its not supposed to die after each bombing.

STA is a defensive item. Ive shown you the STA map I made for Oman 32. 90% of the area covered, is covered by 2 or more STA sites. This leads to one conclusion and one conclusion only- it was DICEs intention to NOT to make one STA the ultimate answer to all of the air problems.



RocketChild- your suggestion doesnt hold water. Choppers flares rearm every 5-7 seconds, maybe even less. Reducing them even more is one step closer towards infinite flaring. Choppers can use terrain and trees as a means to reset the lock. The reason why right now, flares seem to be ineffective sometimes, I have also explained quite some times.

This has to do with changing missiles field of view to a much narrower degree. From 90 to 45. So a flare has fallen simply out of the missiles FOV and goes straight for the chopper.

This picture should illustrate the situation.



The defense I would recommend for choppers and jets aswell, is : restockable flares. You have an X number of non-regenerateble flares which you can deploy anywhere, at any time you like. But if they are out, youre dry. Give more to choppers, less to jets.

I also think its unnecessary to point out that I too agree on beefing up choppers armor.

[RocketChild]

Re: *JET* imbalance... This needs seriously to be fixed

Yea, I'll go with the idea of having only 4 flare kickouts. It would be the pilots choice to kick out all four within a few seconds or to stagger them over 45 seconds.