PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

[PHPT]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

Heres the thing. A grenadier does not throw "a" grenade at you and pull out his rifle. A good grenadier will throw multiple grenades at you so you will have to constantly relocate, or die.

Yes, which is exactly what you should be exploiting. You should never be losing a firefight to a grenadier because every single attack they make can be quickly sidestepped, and it'll take them 2 seconds to have an actual gun pointing at you.

My ultimate point- create severe tactical (usually loss in time) disadvantage in using grenades in a head to head combat and its set.

2 seconds to draw your real gun IS a loss of time. In head-to-head, you can avoid everything they throw at you, easily, how are you losing?

Thing is, unless you get a headshot, they are more likely to run away. This I call a lack in reward from a good ambush.

Then close the distance so they have no choice. Or ambush them (!!) so they're not in a position to run away.

Avoiding mistakes only prolongues the time before you die.

There are three objectives in BF2. One of them is not dying.

Using intelligence in BF2 does not have an effect on that unfortunately.

Yes, it does, catching people unprepared is 100% "intelligence" and will frequently get them dead. This is more of that "ambush" that you keep refusing to acknowledge the existence of. My play style revolves entirely around ambush unless I'm in a tank or copter.

If "skill" means your ability to win in a confrontation, then "intelligence" is stacking the odds so that their skill is significantly less effective and yours is more so. That's the case in any shooter. If you're arguing that such a situation doesn't exist, then you are quite simply wrong.

Seeing squads use tactics such as flanking, is a rarity.

You don't flank TROOPS, you flank FLAGS. If you flank troops, they just respawn nearby. You don't divide a squad for multi-angle assaults because then losses on one side are forced to the other. If you want a multi-angle assault, you use TWO SQUADS.

[imported_Gue]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

before we do all these things,WILL PATCH 1.5 COME OUT?

http://www.totalbf2142.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2524

...
• Battlefield 2142 will not ship with BFTV
• There will come a Battlefield 2142-demo, with a new map
• There will be in-game advertising in Battlefield 2142
• Battlefield 2 will have continued support after the release of Battlefield 2142
• Players can use their unlocks on the single-player portion of the game, if they are connected to the internet
...

On to the subject at hand, you guys keep hammering on how you can counter grenade spammers. And they're spammers cos BF2 has not endless routes. You got the main route which they continously spam grenades at to get random kills. So they can succesfully defend this route and forcing you into taking the other routes. Which slows down the attack and divides you into small bits of groups.

Plus your tactic of flanking them, that we already do all the time, but you decided to explain in every possible way. It doesn't work when you don't have rookies that endlessly run into those grenade barrages. This result into bringing down the tickets with very easy tasks. IN BF2 it can be really important when they're not bleeding so pretty much every ticket counts.
So while holding flags can be very good effective strategy to get an edge in tickets, grenade spammage makes this a clear disadvantage for the assaulters. Same goes for the indistructable claymores btw.

When I was practising support I saw how I could hold off entire platoon of soldiers. Just throw endless grenades and the resupplying plus throwing takes just way too less time for them to counter it.

I don't like how they nerfed the game to the bone. I believe you can achieve way better balance by finetuning, making very slight correctments. So I think making resupply slightly slower and perhaps a few classes like medics getting few less grenades would do the trick.

You can say that it's very possible to counter them and it even can be easy when you ambush them. Still they can hold you off too easily at first. And if some experienced players are covering the other routers so it takes even longer to get to them. What are you going to do then ? Right, let them continue spamming and get easy kills.

You can also assume that on general basis not everyone can be as skilled as you like. So it might be balanced in your behalve but there are still many helpless rookies that run in these areas not expecting to get bombarded by grenades every second. All we want is this defense to get a recheck. There should be some time you can get to move forward until the next barrage of grenades strike in.

And as much as you like to debate on how grenades are balanced atm or not. Just have a simple look on how the hotel of Karkand looks like. At start of the round it doesn't take much to see that there is an excessive grenade spam going on. It just makes the game look so blend. Would you expect in real life this to happen, soldiers tossing grenades all the time soly for the kills. No they keep moving forward and chuck grenades to assault a position.
In BF2 the environment is alot smaller so you know where to expect the enemy unfortunatly. And this is where the grenade spammage comes in striking with furious anger.

Look, the time when I saw 2 gay support guys sitting together on a roof at hotel of Karkand. They just sit there all round and threw grenades randomly at US. Plus getting points for supplying each other. I was shaking my head and wish I could slap them in the face. The game shouldn't encourage such behaviour and most certainly not now they introduced ranks.
It just got blatant when they glitched in the wall and proceeded to chuck grenades there.
I thought **** this and I've never seen such lame tactics ever until in bf2.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

Yes, which is exactly what you should be exploiting. You should never be losing a firefight to a grenadier because every single attack they make can be quickly sidestepped, and it'll take them 2 seconds to have an actual gun pointing at you.

Im sorry, but a mere sidestep hardly takes care of grenade problem, because they do have quite a significant radius of damage. You can also throw a grenade at an incredible rate of fire, a nade per second or even less. That will make the rifleman to be constantly on the move.

It takes less than 2 seconds to change a weapon. Its close to one second. Short enough to not to matter, long enough to pi5s you off. I know this because I play SWAT4 and BF2 both and in SWAT4, reload is 4 seconds and weapon change is 2 seconds. That 2 seconds in SWAT4 creates a very nice tactical disadvantage, while in BF2 the time is short enough to almost not matter. Just like in CS, I often find myself changing weapons in "a blink of an eye".

Example from SWAT4, one can never run at a target / area while throwing grenades and changing weapons. In BF2 this is done all the time. In SWAT4, more often than not, one has to throw a grenade from safety.

2 seconds to switch from rifle to grenade, 1.5 seconds to charge maximum throw (minimum is just at your legs), plus about 2 seconds for the grenade to explodes. Thats a total of about 6 seconds of timeloss when youre throwin one single grenade. Tell me you lose 6 seconds in BF2. You dont. At the most you lose 2-3 seconds. I often charge a grenadier in SWAT4, I charge one in BF2, only to find their weapon to be drawn.

This has nothing to do with realism nor simulation. This has a LOT to do with creating a tactical disadvantage for a weapon that should have its place.

There are three objectives in BF2. One of them is not dying.

Capping flags can be a real b*tch if your aim is worse than opponents. Especially when you can not create a situation where your positioning results in levelling up that advantage.

Yes, it does, catching people unprepared is 100% "intelligence" and will frequently get them dead. This is more of that "ambush" that you keep refusing to acknowledge the existence of. My play style revolves entirely around ambush unless I'm in a tank or copter.

Catching people unprepared is a small portion of the engagement in BF2. It comes down to the skill level.

Here, if the players are of similar skill level, the one with tactical advantage wins. Great, acceptable.

If a players skill level is lower than his opponents, then RARELY (im giving people the benefit of the doubt) their tactical advantage results in a victory of an engagement. I have a generally worse aim because BF2 shooting dynamics just wont fit me and Im pretty new to FPS. I can rack up a healthy KDR in SWAT4, using almost nothing but pure tactics. I can not do that in BF2 because the engagement needs a lot of skill.

If "skill" means your ability to win in a confrontation, then "intelligence" is stacking the odds so that their skill is significantly less effective and yours is more so. That's the case in any shooter. If you're arguing that such a situation doesn't exist, then you are quite simply wrong.

My point is that BF2 firearm dynamics do not allow people to stack their odds against better players so that they could win an engagement. This simply does not happen. Ive played this game for a year, and a little more. Since the Demo came out. This does not happen.

You don't flank TROOPS, you flank FLAGS. If you flank troops, they just respawn nearby. You don't divide a squad for multi-angle assaults because then losses on one side are forced to the other. If you want a multi-angle assault, you use TWO SQUADS.

You flank your target, either it be a troop or an area. And creating 2 squad assault groups. Thats a good one. Next thing youll tell me is that 9 squads are always full and everyone listens to the commander.

[Batausu]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

So it might be balanced in your behalve but there are still many helpless rookies that run in these areas not expecting to get bombarded by grenades every second.

Did you just called PW a helpless rookie?! You are so bold!! :laugh:
But did you read what he wants? Look below:

a) The support class ammo packs can no longer resupply grenades.
b) 1 grenade for medic/spec-op/sniper/anti-tank/engineer and three grenades for the assault and support classes.

Let's assume they do that in the next patch. What would it mean for the battlefield? Simple. No more grenades. Since most classes would have just 1, it will be wasted. You can't kill with 1 grenade, unless the victim is unlucky enough to step on it. And since support can't supply grenades and there aren't enough supply boxes around, after you have used your single grenade, there is no way to get another. 'Use your rifle!' I hear a voice. Sure, but anything other then a medic's rifle is going to be inferior. I want to be able to take out a squad full of medics if I need to. How am I going to do that, if I have just one shot at them with a grenade?! The moment I use a rifle against a squad backed up by medics, I'm going to be toast. I might kill a couple of them, but that's it and then a medic would have them back in the fight in no time.
A grenade is the element of fear needed to prevent going head on in battle. Some may like fighting like this, but it's not realistic. Think about it.
I agree, grenades spamming is another exploit, from many we see on the battlefield, but removing or drastically reducing their number is not a good way to get rid of it, since it's a part of the fun we have when killing each other.

[PHPT]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

That will make the rifleman to be constantly on the move.

So what? You're moving, he's STILL NOT SHOOTING YOU!

It takes less than 2 seconds to change a weapon. Its close to one second.

M249: 1.6 seconds
RPK-74: 1.6 seconds
Type 95: 1.5 seconds
PKM: 1.8 agonizing seconds
MG36: 1.5 seconds

Plus however long it takes to finish chucking the grenade.

Short enough to not to matter, long enough to pi5s you off.

Long enough to get them killed.

Just like in CS, I often find myself changing weapons in "a blink of an eye".

Probably because every OTHER weapon except the L96 and M24 draw in 1.2 seconds or less. LMGs are not so quick to draw.


This conversation is starting to ping-pong. It sounds like you want BF2 to turn into a game of pure tactics, which simply isn't going to happen. Any game where you don't die the instant someone pulls the trigger facing in your direction, skill becomes a dominant factor.

Not only that, but the player community seems to like it that way. Notice the massive uproar when AA missiles turned into insta-win as soon as you got a lock. Why? Because people wanted dogfights instead, where you could recover from tactical disadvantages and overcome them to win. You could say the entire game revolves around that concept by giving you respawns every 20 seconds.

If what you want is for individual player skill to evaporate from the equasion, then that simply isn't going to happen. There is no more stopping you from becoming a more skilled player than there is stopping you from becoming a superior tactician, and BOTH have their place in BF2.

My point is that BF2 firearm dynamics do not allow people to stack their odds against better players so that they could win an engagement. This simply does not happen. Ive played this game for a year, and a little more. Since the Demo came out. This does not happen.

Which is funny because I do it constantly. Any time you're shooting at someone that didn't expect you to be shooting them, you have done precisely that, and they will probably lose that confrontation even if they are a better shot. If someone expects you to be in a location, and you're not there, then you have the opportunity to surprise them.

Surprised players are handicapped. You don't need superior aim to beat them.

but it's not realistic.

Curing .50-cal bullet wounds with defibrilators is not particularly realistic either. Please stop using this argument.

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

On to the subject at hand, you guys keep hammering on how you can counter grenade spammers. And they're spammers cos BF2 has not endless routes. You got the main route which they continously spam grenades at to get random kills. So they can succesfully defend this route and forcing you into taking the other routes. Which slows down the attack and divides you into small bits of groups.

This would occur with or without grenades. The main route is always well defended becuase it's the easiest to defend. This is why every map has multiple avenues of approach.

The main route is generally considered the main route only because it's the quickest way to the flag -- which should logically be the hardest way to get to the flag.

Plus your tactic of flanking them, that we already do all the time, but you decided to explain in every possible way. It doesn't work when you don't have rookies that endlessly run into those grenade barrages. This result into bringing down the tickets with very easy tasks. IN BF2 it can be really important when they're not bleeding so pretty much every ticket counts.

Then you must compensate. Every action they take leaves an opening that can be exploited successfully by your team. Sure, if 32 pubbies were fighting 32 clanmates on teamspeak the 32 clanmate would win because they coordinate their defense.

I have never seen a perfect defensive strategy on a pub server performed by pub players. I always order my squad to defend a flanking point. In a squad of 6, a minimum of 3 usually follow me but most of the time it's all 5. Even then, when we're defending a flank... I see massive openings in our defense and hope the opposing team doesn't break through.

More often than not, they don't break through because they don't look for these openings. Then you see people complaining about how hard it is for USMC to win. Round ends, teams swap. Once we're USMC we damn near cap them out.

So while holding flags can be very good effective strategy to get an edge in tickets, grenade spammage makes this a clear disadvantage for the assaulters. Same goes for the indistructable claymores btw.

Holding a flag doesn't mean you sit in the flag zone. Take an example with Mashtuur City...

If you want to defen the Mosque, you don't necessarily have to be in the flag zone. Instead, there are many places to hide that give you a great field of fire directly onto the flag zone.

I agree with indestructable claymores, though keep this in mind... if the majority of the enemy team are snipers placing claymores, they are at a disadvantage everywhere else. They'll lose nearly every rifleman engagement because even snipers with good aim like myself can't handle 6 guys blasting me with automatic fire. Every advantage brings disadvantages.

When I was practising support I saw how I could hold off entire platoon of soldiers. Just throw endless grenades and the resupplying plus throwing takes just way too less time for them to counter it.

Because you're facing players that aren't experienced with the game. They could avoid your grenades if they moved correctly and memorized your common routes but they don't. How often did you throw a grenade into a hallway .. killing someone? Then you immediately throw another because you know they will just keep coming through that hallway regardless of how many grenade are exploding in there?

I don't like how they nerfed the game to the bone. I believe you can achieve way better balance by finetuning, making very slight correctments. So I think making resupply slightly slower and perhaps a few classes like medics getting few less grenades would do the trick.

Yes little fixes like would end nades exploding everywhere. Just don't forget that 1 little fix for 1 little player is 64 little fixes for 64 little players .. making a fix that has a big effect on the game. You never really know until you play the game first and maybe DICE has already tested this and found some big problems that would mean remapping or making huge changes to the base game to make work.

You can say that it's very possible to counter them and it even can be easy when you ambush them. Still they can hold you off too easily at first. And if some experienced players are covering the other routers so it takes even longer to get to them. What are you going to do then ? Right, let them continue spamming and get easy kills.

They're easy kills because you allow them. No one is every going to cover them... if they do get cover them I'm not going to face them head on because it's a losing battle. Instead, I'll fall back a bit, move around ... basically outmaneuver them. On ever map and every street and every chokepoint, there is a different way to outmaneuver someone. It all depends on how they position themselves.

You can also assume that on general basis not everyone can be as skilled as you like. So it might be balanced in your behalve but there are still many helpless rookies that run in these areas not expecting to get bombarded by grenades every second. All we want is this defense to get a recheck. There should be some time you can get to move forward until the next barrage of grenades strike in.

This is true, not everyone is good. But I find that interesting.

Alot of people say "well give them less grenades" and "people will need to be more careful". If that's the case, who says they will be more careful with their nades? If they are helpeless rookies they will be helpless rookies no matter what you do...

The reasoning behind that is good players will always find a way to defeat you. Even if it's PONG... players that enjoy playing the game so much that they practice and get better will always find a way to win and rookies will always get clobbered.

So many BF1942 vets complain that the game was made too easy so that it would sell... now so many BF2 vets complain that the game is not easy enough for the rookies...

And as much as you like to debate on how grenades are balanced atm or not. Just have a simple look on how the hotel of Karkand looks like. At start of the round it doesn't take much to see that there is an excessive grenade spam going on. It just makes the game look so blend. Would you expect in real life this to happen, soldiers tossing grenades all the time soly for the kills. No they keep moving forward and chuck grenades to assault a position.

Would expect in real life for the attack to begin about 100 meters from the enemy position?

There are no civilians in Karkand in the game, so you would expect the area to be shelled by artillery first... and I'm talking serious artillery. Then you would have tanks cover the roads in... and not BF2 tanks... but real tanks that have a maximum effective range that is so high you will barely see the tank before he shoots you.

Go here and download some raw combat footage for a peak:

http://www.militaryvideos.net/

Don't compare the game to real life.

That being said, Karkand hotel is a nade fest... I agree. But it's a nade fest because most USMC players just run into meatgrinder like chickens with their heads cut off. It's completely pointless and stupid.

MEC focuses all of their might on the Hotel crossroad because that's where everyone goes. So ultimately you're putting both 32 player teams in one tiny area... what do you expect to happen?

As a result, all flanks are completely exposed. If not, there are only 3 or 4 guys cover the flanks and they are easily disposed of because it's easier for the USMC to get there than MEC.. so even if you die you come back faster. When they die, they have to run more to get to the flanking point.

Look, the time when I saw 2 gay support guys sitting together on a roof at hotel of Karkand. They just sit there all round and threw grenades randomly at US. Plus getting points for supplying each other. I was shaking my head and wish I could slap them in the face. The game shouldn't encourage such behaviour and most certainly not now they introduced ranks.

Players shouldn't encourage such behavior by running into Hotel all round. There are a ton of flags to cap, why aren't they going around? If there are two guys on some roof throwing grenades at you and you can't kill them... stay out of their range of fire. That's how it works buddy... sometimes there are targets you simply cannot take out or it will take way too long.

Part of tactical superiority is knowing when to avoid a fight for the good of the team.

If it was easy to take Hotel then the flanks would be even easier to take and MEC would get screwed for the whole map every round.

It just got blatant when they glitched in the wall and proceeded to chuck grenades there.
I thought **** this and I've never seen such lame tactics ever until in bf2.

Yes, map exploits are bad... but what does that have to do with nades?

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

Let's assume they do that in the next patch. What would it mean for the battlefield? Simple. No more grenades. Since most classes would have just 1, it will be wasted. You can't kill with 1 grenade, unless the victim is unlucky enough to step on it. And since support can't supply grenades and there aren't enough supply boxes around, after you have used your single grenade, there is no way to get another. 'Use your rifle!' I hear a voice. Sure, but anything other then a medic's rifle is going to be inferior. I want to be able to take out a squad full of medics if I need to. How am I going to do that, if I have just one shot at them with a grenade?! The moment I use a rifle against a squad backed up by medics, I'm going to be toast. I might kill a couple of them, but that's it and then a medic would have them back in the fight in no time.
A grenade is the element of fear needed to prevent going head on in battle. Some may like fighting like this, but it's not realistic. Think about it.
I agree, grenades spamming is another exploit, from many we see on the battlefield, but removing or drastically reducing their number is not a good way to get rid of it, since it's a part of the fun we have when killing each other.

Wahhhh!!! I like to spam grenades and how am I supposed to spam them if I only get one?!?! Then I'll have to use my rifle and I can't aim!!!!

That's pretty much how that post came off Batausu.

Complaining about the medic rifles being the best weapons in the game makes you look even more silly. They're good for sure but all of the support weapons eat the medic guns for breakfast (PKM, RPK, MG and even the SAW). All the other weapons and kit loadouts are different and have their own strenghts but I agree about the medic kit overall being the best.

Again this particular discussion is not about the balance of individual classes but rather greandes that all kits recieve.

My changes would make the gameplay 100% better and I'd love to prove that to the people who aren't quite as visionary as me. How about one of you BF2 modders code in these simple changes to BF2 and release it as an experiment. Make claymores destructable and follow my suggestions on grenade balance (because nobody disagrees about it you don't need to bother with the A2A missile modifications).

Then someone can run a big unranked server with this mini-mod on it (Karkand too) and everyone contributing this thread can play it and instantly see how much the gameplay improves. Sounds like a capital idea now all we need is a willing code monkey.

[predragjanjic]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

arent you a "planewhore"?

[Batausu]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

Wahhhh!!! I like to spam grenades and how am I supposed to spam them if I only get one?!?! Then I'll have to use my rifle and I can't aim!!!!
That's pretty much how that post came off Batausu.

This is all you have learned from what I've said?! Pathetic.
Read again or ask a friend about what it means.

Complaining about the medic rifles being the best weapons in the game makes you look even more silly. They're good for sure but all of the support weapons eat the medic guns for breakfast (PKM, RPK, MG and even the SAW).

Remember this? You wrote it:

Support? Meh, medics with slightly better guns but lose the ability to revive/heal as a result, and thus.. worthless.

Bottom line: I don't want any more nerfing done to this game. Simple as that.
If you start a poll, you will see how many players want less grenades, like you do.
In the end, let the majority decide.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

Remember this? You wrote it:

I remember writing that and I stick by it as it mirrors exactly what I just said in this thread. Do I need to restate the obvious? Kit balance is one problem in BF2 and one of the reasons they merged so many kits in 2142. However it is not a critical problem because anyone can choose the medic kit if they like and even though medic is the best class I still see a ton of people playing assault, sniper, support and the rest of the gimp kits (anti-tank excluded because it has an important function). That has absolutely no relevance to the debate on the exploitation of grenades. Unless you're trying to argue that the grenade spam/claymore spam is the only thing keeping players on these kits - in which case I weep tears of joy and look forward to more rifle battles with medics.

[$quatell]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

IN bfpro they give you two nades, and I believe ammo crates dont reload as fast same with medic packs, O well too bad ea doesnt let mods be ranked.

[Batausu]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

Hey, where is the poll? Enough talk, let's see what the community thinks about grenades once and for all. If most people decide we should have an insignificant amount of grenades, then so be it. I'll have no problems one way or the other.
But I'll always remember the mighty of what once was the small grenade. It'll be the same as the Black Hawk's guns. People will always remember it for what it was, but seldom use it after.
Goodbye grenades, it was fun while it lasted. Welcome GL! :evil:

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

What do you guys think about ammo crates like they were in BF1942? I really liked those because you needed to work to get some ammo. If you run out of ammo and you're surrounded, you'd be forced to either surrender (get killed in this case) or pick up enemy weapons as you would in real life.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

What do you guys think about ammo crates like they were in BF1942? I really liked those because you needed to work to get some ammo. If you run out of ammo and you're surrounded, you'd be forced to either surrender (get killed in this case) or pick up enemy weapons as you would in real life.

Much better than the Battlefield 2 ammo dynamic.

It's sad but true.

BF1942 is the hardest game in the series and requires the most skill,

then we drop down the rung to games like BF:V and BF2 and while these games still take skill they're not nearly as skillful as BF1942.

Finally we're at BF2142. I played plenty of beta and let me tell you that game is dumbed down like you wouldn't believe. DICE is steadily making their games easier and easier to be more appealing to the casual gamer crowd.

And yes I do believe that is why grenades/claymores are currently as explotable as they are because they allow the "casual" gamer to log on, toss an unlimited number of grenades, kill a bunch of people without being very skillful.

I can see the new BF2 advertisement now:

Want to play FPS games? Can't use a rifle? Get owned in CounterStrike? Don't get frustrated.. get claymores! Simply drop down one of these automated, invulnerable sentries of death and you too will feel something other than completely useless!

[Batausu]

Re: PlaneWhore's top 4 BF2 changes that need to be in the 1.5 patch

DICE is steadily making their games easier and easier to be more appealing to the casual gamer crowd.
And yes I do believe that is why grenades/claymores are currently as exploitable as they are because they allow the "casual" gamer to log on, toss an unlimited number of grenades, kill a bunch of people without being very skillful.

I’m sorry to tell you the obvious: grenades were always like this, since the beginning.
You used to be in the air, while the rest of us had fun on the ground and grenades were part of the every day fights. You had to learn to avoid it, or die.
Instead of learning too, now you start a long crusade about how grenades are spammed over the ‘skilled’ people’s heads.
Nobody complained before, until a plane whore got his feet on the ground and got owned by grenades.
If you can’t handle a ‘noob’ with a grenade in his hand, then you better reevaluate your skill before blaming on the weapon.