Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

[N2K]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

I just signed up, I see there is a large number of signatures, I hope DICE listens.

[Black_lagon]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Just as I wrote above, I don't think that the spawncamping argument is valid. You failed defending if the enemy manages to spawncamp every spawnpoint. You must retreat then. And if the enemy fails attacking completely (the SL and everyone else died) then he must attack from a flag again. The gamemode is called "conquest", not "deathmatch".

You know guy and wargimp. I'm getting tired to read all your stuff.
it are the same argruments over and over only in other words

I just know understand the feelings of Terroser, if I look your post history in the 4 topics about this.
don't think your argrument are only a fact.

and spawncamping is not a valid argrument omg.....
Now I know what the k/d of 0.9 stands for.

reaction and consequence
reaction: they take squadhopping out.

consequence:people will more spawn at flags and will get spawnraped because there will be always some competive players around. And this true because where are going back to the old playing style in BF1942 where the main tacktick was to spawnrape to stop enemey movement.

eyay and you will say, there are still SL around there lz.
and I say, I don't have worry about it much because they cannot suprise me so hard because the game will be more linair and not flexaible like in bf1942

and most people who use this tacktick are usualy know where to be and support othere players.
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and about overpowerd thing in little squads of 3 man(can't find the post anymore)

Why would it be overpowred??¿¿ if 3 man would hold 6 man.
that it's not only the the tacktick that give a advangte but how to shoot is also a very bigfactor.

[BirdKiller]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Could it be the fact that the reason they reiterate their argument is because they are effective and not yet debunked to shreds? A long debate such as this does not automatically warrant for both sides to compile new arguments/reasons.

Clanbase, be it competative or for pubbing, is the most important part of any online game. Without it there is no reason for that game to exist with a large playerbase for longer than a few months.

To those of you who think clans or groups of people supporting a game aren't what holding it together then you are very mistaken.

How and why are we mistaken? What are you reasons? If I am aware, clans and organizations make up a small part of the entire community, at least from experience (400 hours) and observing the forums. By now, you should realize that declaritive statements and claims need to be supported.

[Black_lagon]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Could it be the fact that the reason they reiterate their argument is because they are effective and not yet debunked to shreds? A long debate such as this does not automatically warrant for both sides to compile new arguments/reasons.

maby because there are al 3 topics about this wich many same agruments only in other words.

just 2 diffrent opinions and nobody will give accept each other opinion because there many big difference between pub players and competive players. Also (ratio of KD say something about you)
but you can still can give good argruments, but I know many players who where in my squad and get pwnd and get a lower ratio then 1 or just 1, always canne whine about it.

And I just adept, by useing some simple other tackticks

to tell you. I have always have a plan ready for every tavktick or movement.

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Not a single squadhopper commented on my idea to make squadhopping more convenient if it is NOT removed. Why?

So I'll post it once more:
Generally, why do I have to perform so many clicks to do squadhopping?
1. Go into the squad screen
2. Look for a squadleader to spawn at
3. Join his squad
4. Go to the spawn screen and spawn

This is totally inconvenient. If DICE intended everyone to be able to choose from several mobile spawnpoints they would have made every squadleader as a choosable spawnpoint in the spawn screen - your own SL having a different color perhaps. If you choose another SL as a spawnpoint, you'd automatically join his squad. If it would be that way, it would be intended.

If squadhopping is not removed, they should as least make every squadleader a spawnpoint in the spawn screen as I described above in this posting, giving squadhopping the "accolade" this way. The possibilities of gameplay wouldn't change compared to now, but you'd save a lot of repetetive mouse clicks in the menus.

Removing the need to cycle the squadleader would be very convenient too, by giving every squad a spawn point as long as anyone in the squad is alive.

Still I'd rather like to see squadhopping removed. But if it's not removed or made optional, it should be made more convenient.

[Brindled]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

because the ones that want to keep like it is do not feel like arguing over something that shouldnt be changed in the first place.

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Haha, I'd say they behave like little kids, not able to admit this is a good suggestion just because it contains the taboo word "unintended" ... :laugh:

Or are they afraid they won't be able to rack up points on pubs so easily anymore if every noob will squadhop then (even those that didn't know how to do it before)??

[Black_lagon]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Haha, I'd say they behave like little kids, not able to admit this is a good suggestion just because it contains the taboo word "unintended" ... :laugh:

Or are they afraid they won't be able to rack up points on pubs so easily anymore if every noob will squadhop then (even those that didn't know how to do it before)??

or you can admint you are a whiner!! :laugh:

poll EA forum 75% don't want sruw the squad systeem
and on TBF it's 70%

I don't think people realise what a MASSIVE change this will have on gameplay for some.

When BF2 was released I didn't care for the squad hopping. I certainly didn't like losing to the first clans who perfected it's use . I was used to the BF1942 way of things and it was a little strange at first. If they had decided to "fix" it a month after release I wouldn't have cared. But we are almost a year in and it's a little late to be overhauling the whole system. Every clan strat for a map will be rendered meaningless overnight. While pubbers may not care, that's a lot of worked just flushed down the toilet. People have put a lot of time and effort into formulating and rehearsing those strategies.

I don't have time to pull out every quote in this thread so I'll try to summarize some people's objections as best I can.

"It's not that big a change and there have been other changes before, get over it."

The changes so far have been some bug fixes and some kit, vehicle, and weapon rebalancing. There is no more ultra class, the support kit is actually useful, and AA works (better at least). It changed some peoples play styles some but they adapted and moved on. Changing the Squad hop fundamentally alters the entire gameplay. It would be like if DICE decided that you only needed 1 spawn point in the whole game and you had to travel from there to any of the objective points every time you died. Yes it would make it more "tactical" or "realistic" but it wouldn't be the same game would it? I would also guess it wouldn't be as fun either.

"What's wrong with the SL just staying back and providing the spawn point."

While some people may not find this a dull job I think the vast majority would. Because the reality would be that the SL is more valuable as a close spawn than have him risking combat. Which basically means his job consists of hiding in corner and running away like a little school girl any time anyone starts shooting at him. To make matters worse a good commander will notice the one guy standing back behind everyone and either route someone over to kill him or just drop arty on him. And just like that the push is dead. And in an 8v8 match (the most popular competitively) assuming a commander and 2 squad leaders you have a total of 5 guys actually fighting. Whoopee. Sounds like fun to me.

"The designers didn't intend it."

I am familiar with the thread where that was mentioned. I understand that that is true. However sometimes (in fact many times) good things come out of unintended uses for things. The internet was certainly not intended to play video games on or talk about them yet here we are. I think in this case DICE should roll with this accident.

"It doesn't take any teamwork to do it."

It actually takes quite a bit of communication, coordination, and timing to do it properly. Especially in a competitive match. I will grant it doesn't take "skill" to do it but it does take teamwork. Remember the other side is doing it too.

"It's more realistic to not squad hop."

Although I'm leary of going down the realism highway I will say it's not entirely realistic for Squad leaders to have their own personal teleporters on them either. At least they didn't when I was in the Army. Like much of the BF series the mudane realities are edited out as much as possible so everyone can get to the "good stuff" faster.

"Just make a mod where it works in clan matches but not in pubs."

One of the best uses for squad hopping is in the pubs actually. It makes it much easier to stick with your friends. If your SL dies it can take forever to get the squad to link back up. This is especially true if you play on the larger 32+ servers where vehicles can become scarce. In pubs my clan uses it primarily to keep working with each other more so than just some cheap tactic. At the very least make squad hopping server selectable.

"Most people in pubs don't use it so who cares."

Exactly. Most people don't even notice it so why change it if most are ambivalent. Half the replies who want to get rid of it are probably just finding out about it reading this thread. If it wasn't a problem then why is it now?

"This will prevent clans from using cheap tactics and help pubbers."

No it won't. As other posters have pointed out if the proposed description is true there is a way around it. The only thing it does is make it needlessly convultated to perform. Which only widens the gap between pubbers and clans because clans will still be willing to do it. Also as others posted getting rid of the squad hop will increase base raping on a large scale in most maps.

"Well dumbass what's you suggestion then?"

I would propose two things: As mentioned by others make it a server selectable option. If you don't like it go to another server.

The other would be to automate the squad cycle. When the SL dies someone is automatically promoted to his position. This way the spawn is on the Squad and not just the person. Orders would be retained by the squad and not the person. This allows everyone in the squad to fight and makes people retreat only if they're the last man. (For those craving a realistic justification for this just think of the next guy in line picking up the SLs magical teleport beacon when he dies). If they really wanted to do it right they would make it so the SL is actually independent of this process so he could maintain VOIP with the commander and still issue orders whether he was the spawn point or not.

"The petition was written poorly."

Yes it was but as far as I know it's the only one so that's why I signed it.

"You know none of what you wrote will matter."

What can I say I like fighting desperate battles against impossible odds. :)

This guy is tottaly 100% right

[Brindled]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Haha, I'd say they behave like little kids...

you are one to talk

not able to admit this is a good suggestion just because it contains the taboo word "unintended" ...

its your opinion that it is a 'good' suggestion.

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

I'd really like to hear some thoughts why my suggestions to make hopping more convenient are not good! :)

[Sadistic_1]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Haha, I'd say they behave like little kids, not able to admit this is a good suggestion just because it contains the taboo word "unintended" ... :laugh:

Or are they afraid they won't be able to rack up points on pubs so easily anymore if every noob will squadhop then (even those that didn't know how to do it before)??

Are you one of those players that blames his deaths on SH, pretty much the same way people blamed their deaths on NOOBTUBERS and C4 CHUCKERS.

SH has little to do with ones skill level and their ability to kill. A squad full of medics can inflict the same type of "wave after wave" feeling as a rotating squadleader.

I'm sure that will be a complaint soon enough - "EA never meant for everybody to choose the same class."

[MrBrown]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

A squad of medics CAN replace squadCYCLING at the cost of a balanced class mixture in the squad.

But how will you replace the fact that the dead people waiting for a good situation to "teleport into" won't be able to choose from several mobile spawnpoints anymore? THIS is the main issue fixed by removing squadhopping. The SL rotation on the other hand can be replaced by other tactics, which isn't that bad at all.

And it has been said many times before, but just to make sure: I don't think I will win more often in V1.3 without squadhopping. But I think I will have more fun playing and planning wars then.

[Sadistic_1]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

Ok, so the way I see it, people don't like the fact that the attacking team can have players suicide and join a SL thats trying to cap a flag based on the fact it's unfair to have the ability to just teleport to a specific location where the battle is. However, the defending team can have all it's players suicide and spawn on the flag that's being attacked based on the fact that it is fair to just teleport to specific location as long as your defending.

Yeah that's balanced.

[The Soup Nazi]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

<sarcasm>
You know what? Screw it. While Dice is at it, make it so that if the SL is in the heat of battle or far beyond enemy lines, his squad can't spawn on him. That's what you "anti-squad-hopper" guys want, right? Reality? In the real world, do you really think the military would send fresh troops to their SL's location when their SL is under heavy fire? Didn't think so.
</sarcasm>

Sheesh. There are so many things you can do in this game that weren't "intended" by the developers. How about when you take a transport chopper over to a group of "pilots" awaiting the next jet. You dive at them and hop out directly before impact. Because they're all holding "e", they teleport into the chopper and die when the chopper explodes. Intended? No. Funny? Yes.

I don't know who's idea it was to cripple squad-hopping, but I can't help but think that Dice spent time to do that- when they should've been spending time on stamping out more bugs.

And before anyone asks... no, I don't play in a clan. But I use squad hopping to help squad leaders accomplish objectives more quickly. What's wrong with that? Now that it's going to be disabled, I'll have to join that squad while I'm alive, suicide, and then hope that that squad leader is still alive. Great plan, no?

[Brindled]

Re: Petition keep squad hopping in Battlefield 2

And it has been said many times before, but just to make sure: I don't think I will win more often in V1.3 without squadhopping. But I think I will have more fun playing and planning wars then.

that's a lot of I's, squad hopping involves teamwork. I want it to stay the way it is.