Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

[The Soup Nazi]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

If it's really such a big issue, why not have it be a server-side flag that admins can choose to either enable or disable? Wouldn't that make the majority happy?

[Leeus]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

I'm not going to be punished because my SL is a jerkass and leads us into hell all the time. I want to be able to pick another squad and move on...

Thoes who don't like this play on another server where you all agree not to do this.. THIS arguement is silly.

[HowieMandel]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

I believe there will be still squad hopin'. I dont think dice is taking that out. I dont see how they could to be honest, we'll wait and see.
What they are fixing, if im reading right, is the squad leader's hands changing hands every other 1 minute. Thats, and correct me if im wrong, but thats what they are fixing.
SO you can still squad jump. You just aint gonna be squad leader.

HOW IT SHOULD BE HANDLED..........
is you can not make a squad, if there are squads that need to be filled. That might sound somewhat harsh.........but......thats one way. That would keep squads filled up. Therefore in effect eliminate squad hopin'. I mean if you cant spawn into another squad, you aint hop'n. ALSO, if you prefer to be a lone wolf and go WITHOUT a squad, then I submit, you have no access to anything the commander can give. IE:
Supply crates. So, your a sniper who dont want to be in a squad. You cant call for supplies. Your a lone wolf tanker........need a crate? So sad to bad.
Lone wolf PKM'r? need your commander to spot out targets....guess what, the commander IS spotting out targets, only you cant see it, because your not in a squad.
I mean its kinda silly to be able to take advantage of the commanders offerings when your not in a squad. Dont make sense really.

[MrBrown]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

I have already showed that IN GAME there is a command from the commander to split your squad, that coupled with the squadleaders ability to manage the squad via inviting others to it, or kicking members, shows that the ability to move among squads is not only INTENDED, but incouraged to help squads hold, defend and attack. All you guys clinging to the "creators intent" and "exploit" need to take a look at the game again and stop you damn whining about a tactic you apparently can't deal with.

Ok if it was intended then explain:

1. Why do the orders of the squad get deleted if the squadleader leaves and re-joins?

2. Why is the commander confused via VoIP because he talks to another person every time the squadleader dies?

3. Why does the manual state that the squadleader position is something special and that it's beneficial for the squad to keep him alive?

4. Why didn't they make it so that the last surviving squadmember becomes the spawnpoint automatically when the SL dies, if THIS style of gameplay was intended?

[DrunkenPirate]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

Thread titleedited and sticky for the time being.

[imported_Demize99]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

I <3 Speculation.

[Red Devil]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

Attack orders from a good Commander should be followed as they will point you to undefended/weak/easily-capped flags. :)

Good Squad Leaders should be rewarded as they are usually hanging back or hovering and not getting any kill points, just maybe heal/resupply points. The good ones will call in UAV and Arty to help their attacking squads.

If they stop/discourage squad hopping, the SL role will become even more important, but fewer will want to create a squad as they will have less incentive to do so due to them not being rewarded.

[DoubleD]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

I <3 Speculation.

lol.. wanna just tell us what is going to happen? :)

[Red Devil]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

Demize99, could you please, please tell us what actually is being worked on in 1.3 please? Thanks.

[LoganX]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

HOLY!!!!
I saw the thread increase by 5 pages since last night when I looked at it this morning. I finally have some time at work to reply.

I'd like to move the debate to whether or not EA/DICE intended squad hopping to be a 'feature' or not.

Mr Brown makes some good points reflecting why it was not intended as it is being used.

Many pro-hoppers make the case that squad-hopping is the epitome of teamwork. In who's eyes though?

If you look back to the early Vids/interviews/writeups for BF2 you will notice that EA/DICE's idea of how they were going to improve and encourage teamwork involved creating in-game 'leadership' type roles/ The Commander, the Squad Leader, and the Squad. All 3 of these things were supposed to spark more 'teamwork' by having a chain of command.
The Squad function (in conjunction with VOIP) was created to promote better teamwork on the Battlefield.
Never once did they say or promote that by using the Squad Menu you could improve you teamwork. All of their strides to improve teamwork were done with things that would be used on the field.
Making the SL a mobile Spawn point was implemented to give players more spawn options. Period.

As far as being stuck with 1 person alive and everyone else getting camped, I thought of a solution even I would support.
Only block the ability to change squads when you are 'unconsious' (waiting for revive). Once you are fully dead you can change.
Now we know it depends on what killed you (or how) as to whether you can be revived or not.
I think this 'randomness' in the ability (or how quickly) one could hop could keep things more balanced.
of course they'd have to also block hopping after a Suicide for this to work.

[-=4th=-1/2Hawk]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

I'd prefer to see a server side option. That way it could be taken out for TWL/CAL league play but left alone for those who dont think its a problem. When out with my guys, I tend to lead the squads - but I verify a lot slower than others. So its nice to have them get a squad going and I can join in once theyre underway.

As far as mechanics, how about this idea -> Dont give a newly assigned Squad Leader spawning abilities until he's in the radius of a friendly flag. That way, squad hopping is allowable either back in friendly territory or after a squad has achieved an offensive objective by capping a point. Might be a good compromise... ?

Oh, last idea - something that's been bugging me - wouldn't it be cool if you could join up with a Squad through the CommoRose? Aim, right-click, "Join Squad x". You could put a similar option in the SL rose to invite somebody you're looking at. It takes way too long to CapsLock, search, find and invite before taking a bullet in the head. Just look around and invite the three pubs working towards your objective.

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Squad hopping to be gone in 1.3?

Ok if it was intended then explain:

1. Why do the orders of the squad get deleted if the squadleader leaves and re-joins?
Because that squadleader is dead, and those orders were given to him. If the squad is working together and communicating (if not than this whole squad hopping business is a moot poitn anyway) than they know the objective and having a order marker on the map isn't going to change what they know they are doing, and by changing the squadleader position they can continue to their primary objective.

2. Why is the commander confused via VoIP because he talks to another person every time the squadleader dies?
"hey bob...wait a minute, you're not Bob" something like that? Never in all of my time playing have I heard confusion in a commander because squad 3's voice changed, haha that's almost ridiculous guy. "Squad 3, move up to the gatehouse" not "yo Mikey can you move up to the gatehouse" and what about playing on VOIP disbaled servers? IS the commander just uber confused then because he can't talk to someone?

3. Why does the manual state that the squadleader position is something special and that it's beneficial for the squad to keep him alive?
Manual? What manual? Haha Where in the manual does it say you're screwed if he dies? Why does it say on their site in hints and tips to be creative when playing to figure out how to achieve you goals?

4. Why didn't they make it so that the last surviving squadmember becomes the spawnpoint automatically when the SL dies, if THIS style of gameplay was intended?
So it isn't an automatic process, some people, like me, don't like having random nooblets that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground in charge of their squad, some people like rotating

That's why

[Red Devil]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

I am a confessed squad hopper, but I still think it should either be eliminated or discouraged.

[MrBrown]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

I <3 Speculation.

You are a sadist!!! :p :p :p

Because that squadleader is dead, and those orders were given to him. If the squad is working together and communicating (if not than this whole squad hopping business is a moot poitn anyway) than they know the objective and having a order marker on the map isn't going to change what they know they are doing, and by changing the squadleader position they can continue to their primary objective.

Still these markers were put into the game for a reason, and it makes no sense to delete them if squadhopping was an intended style of gameplay that already occured during the testing phase (otherwise it would be unintended). It's ridiculous that you have to rotate the ability to call supplies etc. to be more effective.

"hey bob...wait a minute, you're not Bob" something like that? Never in all of my time playing have I heard confusion in a commander because squad 3's voice changed, haha that's almost ridiculous guy. "Squad 3, move up to the gatehouse" not "yo Mikey can you move up to the gatehouse" and what about playing on VOIP disbaled servers? IS the commander just uber confused then because he can't talk to someone?

On a VoIP disabled server this aspect doesn't matter and it isn't that important from an overall point of view, but the developers clearly stated in some interviews that they wanted to implement a chain of command. This chain is represented by the VoIP system (commander talks to SLs, SLs talk to SMs), and it's damaged by squadhopping IMHO.

Manual? What manual? Haha Where in the manual does it say you're screwed if he dies? Why does it say on their site in hints and tips to be creative when playing to figure out how to achieve you goals?

Well the fact that YOU'RE screwed just because you have to spawn at a flag instead at a squadleader once in a while doesn't mean that everybody else is. You can apply that "creative" label to C4 tossing and dolphin diving and bunny hopping too, still it was obviously NOT what the developers intended, as that stuff was already removed.

So it isn't an automatic process, some people, like me, don't like having random nooblets that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground in charge of their squad, some people like rotating

Well OK you like going into the squad menu and press some repetetive scheme of buttons, while some other people have already asked for hotkeys because they are tired of doing this. Seems to be a matter of taste.

Oh, last idea - something that's been bugging me - wouldn't it be cool if you could join up with a Squad through the CommoRose? Aim, right-click, "Join Squad x". You could put a similar option in the SL rose to invite somebody you're looking at. It takes way too long to CapsLock, search, find and invite before taking a bullet in the head. Just look around and invite the three pubs working towards your objective.

If squadhopping is not removed or made optional, that would be a good idea, as it would make it more convenient at least.

[WarGimp]

Re: Patch 1.3 rumour discussion!

I <3 Speculation.

well enjoy it while you can, cause with the new patch it's [squadhopping] stopped..

That's a perty solid source on that issue.
I'm personally still having trouble swollowing the cardrop rumor. It seems like a fairly major implementation. Then again, I took a "yeah right" stance about UAV's becoming a visible model the first time I heard it. I suppose it could be fall out from bf2142 or AF.

How about picking up mines? Is that still going in?
And the portible kill-o-matic deathray weapon that's only avalible to players with both the words "Gimp" and "War" in there name..? Still in too, right?