trash the stupid thing it's worthless and since when can a "Riot Sheild" block 50 shot's from an ak ? :o
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Tameshigiri wrote..
Ugh..shut up about awps..if u think about it, its not hard to get rid of them, and a shielder only makes it easier for awpers, just say "hey, someone with an ak get over here we got a faggot-shielder" and the big square of impentrable-ness, makes that much of an area where the sniper does NOT aim, so it actually helps snipers..if the shield stays, i say we implement a bug for the terrorists..such as a 10 second bomb time and a bug that lets them hold 2 guns, that should do it. considering the shield has many bugs too, u know..
I certainly hope this does get read, and not lost in the 500+ posts above me.
Shields are nearly a necessity in many situations, we all know the power of the Awm. It is an immensly powerfull weapon, especialy with scripts implemented on top of it.
Cal set aside, where some scripts are illegal, in most PUBs the Awm is a weapon of choice. Maps such as Italy, Dust 2, Aztec are dominated by awp-ers. Now setting aside that a person skilled with an assault rifle has got a good chance of killing a sniper, the odds become much slimmer facing two. Heck, 4-5 skilled players can easily fall prey to 2 Awpers, even in a head 2 head situation given long enough distance.
Considering a player's capacity in equipping themselves is directly linked to the amount of money they have, situations where awp snipers continuously murder people, and hence stack the favor further in their direction as per their opponents falling behind in armaments.
There are a few ways of handling the Awp issues.
-Keeping the shield where it is.
-Toning down the awp so that only upper chest/head shots kill (Lower torso 70 damage, Legs/Shoulders - 50 damage)
-Scaling up the power of a Scout as an efficient Awm counter combat weapon
-Making assault weapons cheaper.
Frankly I've NEVER had an issue with the shield being unbalanced, and kill shielders routinely everywhere I play.
Mainly I think, the dislike of this item is brought by those who find themselves incapable of sustaining a genital exciting score without refraining to Boom-stick-camping.Comment
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Remove the shield or do the following.
If it must be kept in, fix the hitboxes and make it a Hostage Rescue map only piece of equipment just like the defusal kit is Defusal map only piece of equipment.
The shield is balanced when the CTs are on the offensive and the Terrorists like on maps such as militia have far better positions and with a good awper or two can dominate the entire map easily enough and start going on the offensive themselves.
The shields in these situations where campers, AWPers and the like are rife and the CTs need a way to get close without dieing and to enter a room without being taken out on the spot.
Works good on Hostage Rescue maps, on Defusal Maps is just is unbalancing and is banned in every war due to that fact (and the fact its hitboxes are so buggy). Otherwise ditch the thing.
The problems with the shield are manifold.
1. It slows down the gameplay on defusal maps
When the Counter-terrorists are offensive then the shield is nice, lets them get past the AWPer and campers and get those hostages and get out.
On defusal maps its a different story. It slows things down, makes a rush much harder as a shielder is a threat not easily taken out on your average pub server. If he has a team picking at you then you have to split your attention, one eye on the guy with the M4 bursting at you on Aztec 40-50 metres away and the shielder to your left who will cap you the moment you turn to fight the M4er.
As a result, it gives the CTs who already typically have the advantage on defusal maps, an even greater advantage and one that can make a rush lose its momentum quite quickly and be driven back.
2. Buggy Hitboxes and hit detection and generally buggy
Since its introduction the thing has been plagued with problems, many problems. From invisibility bugs to throwing it through walls to being able to shoot the server thinking your shield is still up. Its worst problem is its buggy hitboxes and hit detection.
Lets just say too many times has a player stopped, crouched and aimed right on a shielders head and watch a "spark" from the shield appear and the noise of hitting the shield sound off. Too many times has a player gotten around a shielders side and still found himself spamming into the shield, too many times then they have reloaded has the player found himself not hitting the guy despite the shield being down.
Occassionally you'd shoot the shield itself and it would hit the guy's head if he was moving. This is yet even more bugginess but typically the shield stops shots whether they are on the shield or just near it.
3. It gives too much protection, even when its down.
This is one of the biggest issues which is due partly to the second point I made above, the thing even when you have it down means that half your target is covered when you shoot if not more and its so quick to bring up or drop down.
Now how the shield is held and moved about and the name of a "Riot shield" which has been thrown about would indicate that the thing shouldn't exacltly be stopping high calibur rifles that are repeatedly hitting the thing in the same spots.
Shields that strong are mounted on wheels because they are too heavy to hold for any real length of time let alone shoot accurately while holding.
4. The thing is so cheap
At a bit over two grand you can get it most rounds. With all the problems accociated with it such as slowing down enemy rushes and all, if its there every round then the problem becomes worse.
5. Too lethal with it
Lets face it, pistols are made overly strong for what they are so then they are actually useful back ups. Its a good thing too that they are but when it comes to combining that mechanism to keep pistols useful with something like the shield, it results in a shielder just being too dangerous when everything is put together.
A shielder with a DEagler who has good aim can be a nightmare as he only needs one or two shots for a bink and then he can put his shield back up and due to the pistol's accuracy on the move for those first shots, he doesn't have to stop to do it.
The shield when it was originally being talked about I imagined as something that covered you upper body and if you crouched all your body. I figured fair enough, you could still be shot but if you crouched you could slowly push up, you could crouch and hide an AWPer behind you or if you saw an enemy you could crouch quickly for the protection.
I didn't envisage a shield that completely covered your body, gave awesome protection even when down and happened to clip through the floor when you crouched.
I mean, I've thrown a few ideas about before. One idea was to make it so you couldn't crouch with a shield, at least limiting their mobility to main entrances and preventing them from getting into odd camping spots or through certain ways by crouch jumping or from boosting on top of other player's heads easily full stop.
Another was that when you lower your shield, the guy brings it so the long edge is roughly horizontal with the ground and to the side so his entire body pretty much can be seen by a player standing in front of him thus meaning if the shield comes down, so does most of the protective quality of the shield.
A lot of ideas have been played with, most like the second one found wanting as they make shielders then camp more. Some had a little promise but didn't quite fix the main issues at hand like the first idea, sure it was alright but it didn't quite solve the problem of shielders being too lethal and too protected and thus slowing down rushes on defusal maps and being a CT item it would be used defensively and for hostage rescue maps where its real use would come into play the crouch thing would simply limit it.
So, I came upon the conclusion that you either do the following.
1. Limit it to hostage rescue maps ONLY and fix its bugginess
OR
2. Remove it completely.Comment
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Keep the shield. Its a new realistic addition that makes the game more fun! you should put more weapons like that in CS !Comment
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Improve the Shield's hitboxes, and keep it. But give an option to remove it when hosting servers.Comment
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FORGET THE SHIELD there's enough issues like friends being down for the last 4 days that need to get done :P
mabey the shield would be great if it was prefected and setup to take damage or whatever, the thing is, no one would miss it if it was removed no one would start great riots and send hate e-mail. it has been accepted by such a small part of the community getting rid of it would be no problem at all, keeping it and listening to the people who wanted it complain about all the new problems that im sure would arise would only make it worse
die shield dieComment
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Wudge wrote..
Listen to him or Die.
Remove the shield or do the following.
If it must be kept in, fix the hitboxes and make it a Hostage Rescue map only piece of equipment just like the defusal kit is Defusal map only piece of equipment.
The shield is balanced when the CTs are on the offensive and the Terrorists like on maps such as militia have far better positions and with a good awper or two can dominate the entire map easily enough and start going on the offensive themselves.
The shields in these situations where campers, AWPers and the like are rife and the CTs need a way to get close without dieing and to enter a room without being taken out on the spot.
Works good on Hostage Rescue maps, on Defusal Maps is just is unbalancing and is banned in every war due to that fact (and the fact its hitboxes are so buggy). Otherwise ditch the thing.
The problems with the shield are manifold.
1. It slows down the gameplay on defusal maps
When the Counter-terrorists are offensive then the shield is nice, lets them get past the AWPer and campers and get those hostages and get out.
On defusal maps its a different story. It slows things down, makes a rush much harder as a shielder is a threat not easily taken out on your average pub server. If he has a team picking at you then you have to split your attention, one eye on the guy with the M4 bursting at you on Aztec 40-50 metres away and the shielder to your left who will cap you the moment you turn to fight the M4er.
As a result, it gives the CTs who already typically have the advantage on defusal maps, an even greater advantage and one that can make a rush lose its momentum quite quickly and be driven back.
2. Buggy Hitboxes and hit detection and generally buggy
Since its introduction the thing has been plagued with problems, many problems. From invisibility bugs to throwing it through walls to being able to shoot the server thinking your shield is still up. Its worst problem is its buggy hitboxes and hit detection.
Lets just say too many times has a player stopped, crouched and aimed right on a shielders head and watch a "spark" from the shield appear and the noise of hitting the shield sound off. Too many times has a player gotten around a shielders side and still found himself spamming into the shield, too many times then they have reloaded has the player found himself not hitting the guy despite the shield being down.
Occassionally you'd shoot the shield itself and it would hit the guy's head if he was moving. This is yet even more bugginess but typically the shield stops shots whether they are on the shield or just near it.
3. It gives too much protection, even when its down.
This is one of the biggest issues which is due partly to the second point I made above, the thing even when you have it down means that half your target is covered when you shoot if not more and its so quick to bring up or drop down.
Now how the shield is held and moved about and the name of a "Riot shield" which has been thrown about would indicate that the thing shouldn't exacltly be stopping high calibur rifles that are repeatedly hitting the thing in the same spots.
Shields that strong are mounted on wheels because they are too heavy to hold for any real length of time let alone shoot accurately while holding.
4. The thing is so cheap
At a bit over two grand you can get it most rounds. With all the problems accociated with it such as slowing down enemy rushes and all, if its there every round then the problem becomes worse.
5. Too lethal with it
Lets face it, pistols are made overly strong for what they are so then they are actually useful back ups. Its a good thing too that they are but when it comes to combining that mechanism to keep pistols useful with something like the shield, it results in a shielder just being too dangerous when everything is put together.
A shielder with a DEagler who has good aim can be a nightmare as he only needs one or two shots for a bink and then he can put his shield back up and due to the pistol's accuracy on the move for those first shots, he doesn't have to stop to do it.
The shield when it was originally being talked about I imagined as something that covered you upper body and if you crouched all your body. I figured fair enough, you could still be shot but if you crouched you could slowly push up, you could crouch and hide an AWPer behind you or if you saw an enemy you could crouch quickly for the protection.
I didn't envisage a shield that completely covered your body, gave awesome protection even when down and happened to clip through the floor when you crouched.
I mean, I've thrown a few ideas about before. One idea was to make it so you couldn't crouch with a shield, at least limiting their mobility to main entrances and preventing them from getting into odd camping spots or through certain ways by crouch jumping or from boosting on top of other player's heads easily full stop.
Another was that when you lower your shield, the guy brings it so the long edge is roughly horizontal with the ground and to the side so his entire body pretty much can be seen by a player standing in front of him thus meaning if the shield comes down, so does most of the protective quality of the shield.
A lot of ideas have been played with, most like the second one found wanting as they make shielders then camp more. Some had a little promise but didn't quite fix the main issues at hand like the first idea, sure it was alright but it didn't quite solve the problem of shielders being too lethal and too protected and thus slowing down rushes on defusal maps and being a CT item it would be used defensively and for hostage rescue maps where its real use would come into play the crouch thing would simply limit it.
So, I came upon the conclusion that you either do the following.
1. Limit it to hostage rescue maps ONLY and fix its bugginess
OR
2. Remove it completely.Comment
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Edited by [user="190664"] @ [time="1089072713"]
Boot the sucker.
Everything in the game has a comparable opposite, or is buyable by both teams. The AUG has the SIG, the Dualies, and the 5-7, the M4 and the AK. The only weapon that doesn't, is the shield. Not only is it still glitched, but it unbalances the game. Unless the T's get something to counter the shield, and I have no idea what it could be, the shield should get the boot.
If the little 12 year olds are going to complain that their 1 shot cannon can't kill because of the shield. Let them, we don't need them in the community to begin with.
Yeah, and the other 12 year olds are complaining that the AWP is too powerful. Well the difference is BOTH teams can buy an AWP, only 1 can buy a sheild. This only solves the 'AWP problem'(There isn't one), for 1 of 2 teams. Not fair in the least.Comment
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I say get rid of it. It took atleast 5 patches to get it right and even then it didn't add much to the gameplay, and I personally feel, from playing cs since march 2000, that the shield is an unfair advantage to the cts with the terrorists not having molotiv cocktails to block their shield view and slow their advance from damage.... Get rid of it. A shield will single handedly stall a bomb defuse unfairly.... Maybe the cs source flash will solve this since you can't fire during a flash.... we shall see....Comment
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Edited by [user="168813"] @ [time="1089073117"]AlterRammstein wrote..
K if your bored, you can make your own sever and play with the shield, I say keep it, and then who ever doesn't want a shield on their server or a certain weapon should be able to put in a command to the server, or cvar to remove that waeapon or weapons from the server, and make sure no one can use them. I think that would be the best way, because some people want them and some don't, those we don't can get it off their server, and those who want it, can keep it. Also it all depends on what server you play on. If you don't like that shield, make your own server and get rid of it, or play on a shield banned server, its easy as that... If anyone knows how much crap Vavle gets per day about other things, this is sooo minior it funny to point and laught at...
Keep it. It's fun when you're bored :pTameshigiri wrote..
Thank you... You people need to stop complaining, get a new game already, there are a billion of other games you can play like CS... If you don't like it read my other post thanks...
I certainly hope this does get read, and not lost in the 500+ posts above me.
Shields are nearly a necessity in many situations, we all know the power of the Awm. It is an immensly powerfull weapon, especialy with scripts implemented on top of it.
Cal set aside, where some scripts are illegal, in most PUBs the Awm is a weapon of choice. Maps such as Italy, Dust 2, Aztec are dominated by awp-ers. Now setting aside that a person skilled with an assault rifle has got a good chance of killing a sniper, the odds become much slimmer facing two. Heck, 4-5 skilled players can easily fall prey to 2 Awpers, even in a head 2 head situation given long enough distance.
Considering a player's capacity in equipping themselves is directly linked to the amount of money they have, situations where awp snipers continuously murder people, and hence stack the favor further in their direction as per their opponents falling behind in armaments.
There are a few ways of handling the Awp issues.
-Keeping the shield where it is.
-Toning down the awp so that only upper chest/head shots kill (Lower torso 70 damage, Legs/Shoulders - 50 damage)
-Scaling up the power of a Scout as an efficient Awm counter combat weapon
-Making assault weapons cheaper.
Frankly I've NEVER had an issue with the shield being unbalanced, and kill shielders routinely everywhere I play.
Mainly I think, the dislike of this item is brought by those who find themselves incapable of sustaining a genital exciting score without refraining to Boom-stick-camping.
You people need to get lifes... If your complaining about a small Counter-Strike thing, you got to have very little of a life... I mean not to bash anyone, CS is great and bitching about every little thing is fun... But the shield just came out you know, give it a little time... Read the rest of this then post a comment...Comment
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Edited by [user="55402"] @ [time="1089073276"]
Put in the setting mp_awplimit
It can be set at any valvue up to 16. The value represents the number of AWPs that one team may be in posession of. Most servers would set this to 1 or 2 and eliminate the issue of having entire teams with AWPs. In my main server which is community based (i.e not the most skilled) they limited the AWP to 1 for a fair while with a mod and it didn't ruin gameplay or anything, a few times I couldn't get an AWP but it didn't really bother me and generally gameplay went along as normal. Generally a team has 1 or 2 AWPs at most so it was CS as always.
Adding in that setting will mean that the odd occurence of having 5 out of 8 players awped up won't happen and that the thing cannot be used by too many at once, means maps like aztec might only have 1 awp a team so it is not quite the awp map.
Simplest and yet the most effective way of solving the AWP problem. I doubt anyone will stand ANY MORE NERFING at this rate. Simply put a server side setting that can limit the number of AWPs bought and let the servers set what is most balanced for their player base.
In addition, an mp_shieldlimit setting wouldn't be a bad idea either if it is kept in but I stress unless map specific settings are added in, KEEP the shield to hostage rescue maps ONLY as having to change the value depending on whether a DE_ or CS_ map is on would be impractical.Smurfzilla wrote..
Rock on dude!
Listen to him or Die.
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boot teh suckaComment
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HOw did this start talking about the awm/p and limiting it :|
"There are a few ways of handling the Awp issues.
-Keeping the shield where it is.
-Toning down the awp so that only upper chest/head shots kill (Lower torso 70 damage, Legs/Shoulders - 50 damage)
-Scaling up the power of a Scout as an efficient Awm counter combat weapon
-Making assault weapons cheaper."
Tameshigiri, those changes would effect game play to a point where the entire balance of the game is. And the scout already is an efficient Awm counter, its called skill. Pop shots at awpers
Sniper rifles are supposed to dominate anything below them :|Comment
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Helkite wrote.. #467
Ah, thank ye kindly. And it's not even all I could get into. I've mastered the shield, both using it and fighting against it, so I know all about it (except how to do whatever bug/exploits there are, I don't even know of any).
Thortok2000, that is one of the best rundowns on the shield debate I have ever read.
In response to lockhart #476:
There's a fundamental difference between what we want out of the game. You want skill, whereas I prefer a game where intelligence and skill mix. You're falling under the "Find, Aim & Shoot" tactics, with perhaps evade mechanisms when you come under fire. Which is, admittedly, most--if not all--of CS. I like to be able to out-think an enemy at times instead of outdo him at jump-and-gunning.
Most of the things you mentioned about the shield slowing down the round are things that would require balancing. Also, the only time a shielder is completely invulnerable is in a hallway or vent or other narrow area where you can't flank. A 90 degree corner is enough to flank. I'm not getting where your 'staring contest' comes from. Shielders are easy to kill. If your biggest complaints come from not being able to kill them, then talk to me and I can teach you 10 different ways to kill a shielder; and that's just 1v1. 2v2 (with one or two shielder enemies) also has it's own tactics, which somewhat apply to larger groups.
As far as realistic ways of dealing with realistic shields, that doesn't apply to CS. The shield either stays balanced game-wise or it goes. It will never be balanced realism-wise. Nor will most other things in the game.
Shielders are meant to be decoys for the most part, with the added bonus of being able to peek out where someone would otherwise get shot, and scouting. Real life might have fiberoptics or something, this is what CS gets.
#509, I've played pubs since early 1.3. I was off and on, I'd play for a few months and then not play for a few months. Now I've been playing 1.6 for nearly a year.
I've scrimmed a few times with a clan I thought about joining, but I've never played in a match.
Not all pubbers are newbies. Also, not all unskilled people are unintelligent when it comes to suggesting features for the game. It doesn't take two brain cells to notice bad aug/sig crosshairs or a hard-to-see radar and say "this could be improved". And who does that benefit? Everyone.
You're completely wrong if you think Valve does or should support ONLY the league players.
#527 Wudge:
1) That's one of the shield's goals is to stop a rush. Everyone's talking about how 'fast' the game should be and such. Run as fast as you can and shoot faster and die even faster. What happened to stealth and sneaky tricks? Gone in a blaze of gunfire.
The phrase "stop and think" means "slow gameplay" to you. So your point #1 is disqualified...that's the shield's purpose in the game at all.
2) This point is also disqualified. CS:S should be exponentially less buggy than 1.6. It also has better physics so hitboxes and perhaps getting a little 'reaction' movement when it gets shot, or knocked out of the way by an awp/nade hit, who knows. The potential is there.
3) This point is also disqualified. To say the shield needs balancing is not to say that it needs removing.
4) See #3.
5) See #3.
Your points about it clipping through the floor and leg protection all that other stuff, see #3.
As for limiting it to hostage maps only, I can see how that could be reasonable, but what I don't see is why it's such a problem on DE maps (with the noted exception of defusing while holding the thing).Comment
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my comment would be....
if it is perfect keep it...and since nothing in this world is perfect remove it!Comment
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