Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Aye. There's a point here.

The PKM (and sniper rifles) now feels like a solid weapon. It's no longer a great mystery as to WTF is going on when I'm pulling the trigger. I shoot, people die. No more fumbling around with silly huge deviations.

The problem is with the context. Assualt weapons need a buff. The G3 should be as accurate while standing as the PKM is when crouched. Grenade launchers need to be tweaked to become useful again (larger splash!). The FN2000 needs an accuracy buff.

I don't think the non-combat kits need much tweaking. We all know the medic is all good to go (since they already pack weapons that are better than assualt). Engineers and ATs have the capacity to inflict monster damage at close range, and spec opps still brings some of the best psudo-sniping around.

I'd MUCH rather see buffs applied to other elements than nerfs to the support weapons. Ramp those other toys up and the PKM won't be such a big deal.

I agree - Buffs over nerfs..

[WarGimp]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

I agree - Buffs over nerfs..

It's a more winninger strategy, for sure.

Don't nerf what people love. Buff the stuff that's ignored.
I SO wish this concept had been applied to the skycow/blackhawk imbalance issue.

[Drevor]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Ok, when rolling/diving to the ground, we basicly have two issues here, one with the BF2 engine itself:

- the person which is rolling sees themself already on the ground ready to shoot while everyone else still sees them in motion
(you have seen that - a person rolls on the ground and it looks like they are shooting in the air or ANYWHERE but still you get hit)

.... and one issue specially with the PKM:
- instead of needing to take a breath and wait half a second to "deploy" their weapon the player has instantly maximum accuracy.

Both needs to be fixed! Those are issues that basicly apply to any weapon but are esp noticable with the MGs.

Edit(just a little addition...yeah its a tad off topic):
something Im waiting for since dice started playing arround with the pixel shaders ... If you dont die from a .50 cal - I do understand that a game needs balancing - there should be at least a little negative affect for someone who just got hit by such a projectile. I could life with anything from blured vision for half a sec to get pushed back 1 meter... but please ... you just got hit by a .50cal - you are down to 2 health bars ... you cant just keep walking/shooting like nothing happend ...

... sooo .. nuff for today

[DrJambo]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Watching that video it's quite clear there's very little point using a sniper and an SVD. WIth the PKM you have unlimited ammo, no reload problems and sniper-like accuracy.

GOod video though. Shows exactly the issues with 1.2 PKM (and MG36).

[AlphaNut]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Watching that video it's quite clear there's very little point using a sniper and an SVD. WIth the PKM you have unlimited ammo, no reload problems and sniper-like accuracy.

GOod video though. Shows exactly the issues with 1.2 PKM (and MG36).

Yes, unless the gunner with the pkm faces a capable sniper. Then the whole story changes, and the support class is running. Because clearly they have to be prone, and therefor are an excellent HS target for the sniper that knows how to handle his weapon.

[AlphaNut]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Watching that video it's quite clear there's very little point using a sniper and an SVD. WIth the PKM you have unlimited ammo, no reload problems and sniper-like accuracy.

GOod video though. Shows exactly the issues with 1.2 PKM (and MG36).

Yes, unless the gunner with the pkm faces a capable sniper. Then the whole story changes, and the support class is running. Because clearly they have to be prone, and therefor are an excellent HS target for the sniper that knows how to handle his weapon.
And an MG does have sniper-like accuracy when shot in prone or supported position. Those thing mow anything down that crosses their sights. Therefore if you can hear an MG you better don't try to cross that street on foot.
I am very glad that they gave the weapon it's deserved accuracy.
Some others need to be buffed as well, and BF2 will eventually contain less sprayin' and prayin'.

[phen0m]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Its quite simple, the people you are playing against are noobs.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

The only way a sniper is taking me out is if they run up in to the hills, hide behind a hill somewhere to my flank, and snipe me from a bush while remaining nearly invisible.

Head on a PKM has the advantage over the sniper if they both see each other at the same time. Difference is that support player can then jump down, and blast down a squad of infantry up close while the sniper is stuck pecking away with his pistol prior to his massive failure and death.

Lets recap what we've learned thus far:

• PKM can snipe better than anything
• PKM can gun people down at a medium range better than anything
• PKM can match any weapon in close quaters combat
• PKM has a larger clip than any other non-support weapon (very important)
• PKM has anti-vehicular capabilites
• PKM works great while standing, crouching or proned, and you don't even need to use ironsights to make it accurate
• PKM users have unlimited ammo (and most importantly, unlimited grenades to spam)

Am I missing anything? If they added shock paddles to support there would be no reason to use anything but that kit for ground pounding. Because as far as I can tell, specality classes aside (engineer as armor), a medic is the only thing that is even remotely close to bringing and ability useful enough to the table to be competitive with the support guns.

[WarGimp]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Am I missing anything?

Humility?
Social grace?

:p
Sorry, couldn't help it.
(bad Gimp!)

The truth of the matter is that you prolly could have done very much the same with almost any kit/weapon and a supply crate.

Your position during that video actually undermined the validity of your observations. For a weapon to be truely overpowered, it should win in FAIR fights. I'm not saying your tactic was cheap... just that it was over effective in terms of the issue.

If you were to post something like that kill streak while laying in a road, or rushing the allies of Kark, it would have lots more strength.

Know what I'm sayin?

Still, yes, I think it's a safe bet to say that the PKM needs a couple mild tweaks and that other kits need to be ramped up... especially Assault.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Poor Wargimp, just like with ultra AA missile screw up from DICE you still can't see the big picture.

Fraps degrades my performance a little too far for me to be up to par in heated infantry combat, but that wouldn't have showed the PKM where is performs the best. More importantly, you're incorrect in your assesment that I could've done what I did in the video just as well with any other weapon. Sure I could've sat up on that roof with a G36E and killed some people, but I wouldn't be nearly as efficient in doing so. So lets say I had picked the G36E instead (which is by the way a fantastic gun and was my first choice in 1.12).

First off, short a supply crate I would've been out of ammo less than half way through that video. Speaking of supply crates, having to pray that a commander will drop a crate for a lone camper on some roof doesn't sound like a very appealing prospect for me to have to depend on. That is a big point and something which makes the PKM the undisputed weapon of choice for campers. More importantly having unlimited ammo frees me from the ammo constraints that plague other weapons and disallow you from reloading at your leisure without the loss of tons of potential rounds. This allows you to fire your gun as much as you'd like even if those shots have a high chance of being a waste of ammo. You can also fire as fast as you'd like without having to worry about ammo issues. Not to mention having a full clip ready to go for your next target can be a very important factor.

Second off, while the G36E is accurate, it is still not even close to being as accurate as a PKM, especially at very long ranges. At sniping ranges weapons the G36E will miss the mark just about every shot, even if your aim is perfect.

Third, the damage on the G36E pales in comparision to the PKM. Where I'm killing a lot of people in 1 or 2 shots, with the G36E I'm almost guaranteed to have to shoot every target 3 to 4 times. That is twice the amount of time, aiming, and effort for the exact same amount of killage, in which allows more space for me to fail to kill my target.

Finally, the clip on the PKM is a huge part of why it is better than any other type of weapon. When I'm tapping off shots at some guy running up the mountain with any other gun and next thing I know I'm out of ammo and reloading while they running out of range, jumping behind a wall. More importantly in head on infantry combat when they're reloading that measly little 20 clip on that crap assault gun I'm drilling a hole in their skull, and the squad mate next to them, and then a sniper a couple hundred feet away, and all without having to reload once.

The PKM trend is going to continue to get worse and worse as more people begin using it. It isn't uncommon for me to see a third or even half the kills on an infantry map from the PKM now, and it is going to continue in that direction till DICE takes action. Diversity of playstyle is what has seperated Battlefield 2 from many other games. Now with DICE nerfing airplanes and helicopters so badly people often times refuse to fly them completely, and with DICE providing silly weapon choices that force people to select a certain weapon or get outgunned, Battlefield 2 will quickly lose the diversity that made it so appealing to many people in the first place.

[SK]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

The only way a sniper is taking me out is if they run up in to the hills, hide behind a hill somewhere to my flank, and snipe me from a bush while remaining nearly invisible.

Staying close to the hotel aiming up and waiting for your silhouette to pop out would work a little better I guess. There were lot of times where your head popped out to be seen first by a sniper doing that.

[WarGimp]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Poor Wargimp, just like with ultra AA missile screw up from DICE you still can't see the big picture.

:wall:
I swear... it's like talking to a hamsandwich.

Will you PLEASE get over yourself long enough to grasp the basics of what people are trying to tell you?

I did NOT say that the PKM shouldn't get a little nerfing.

What I said is that your vid wasn't a great example because there were other factors involved in what was going on. A sniper coulda owned up there too. A medic armed with a G6e would have done perty damned good too. That doesn't invalidate your point, but the vid doesn't prove that point either.

Beyond that, you have no business telling me anything about the big picture since time and time again you have demonstrated that you can't get past anything you find personally annoying.

The Big Picture involves things like Assualt being underpowered and the realities of what it would take to implement some of the suggested "fixes". Context is everything. If the G3 was to be ramped up to the same sort of accuracy, a lot of the problem would vanish without having to do anything to the PKM.

That said, YES, I did mention that some mild tweaks to the PKM would be a good thing. I'd say increase the minimum deviation and recoil slightly when proned, and a lot when crouching/standing.

[sav112]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

to be fair he would have lasted two mins on any game i was in on command!

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Here is what i would ultimately like to do if i could alter the Kits....

Take away the ammo supply capability from the Support kit and give it to the engineer.. The engineer now has a true ability to gain points. Plus the ability to repair vehicles means it is the most popular driving kit, so you can drive and resupply troops at the same time...

Take away the Anti-Tan mines from engineers and give it to the Anti-Tank Kit, because, well, they are the anti-tank kit..

Give a total of 3 smoke and 2 flash bangs to the assault kit.. Also expand the kill radius of the noob toobs, but keep the no shooting while jumping fix..

Keep the current accuracy of the Support kit, as now it is doing its job, which is to kill masses of people... BUt they won't be able to resupply themselves because the Engineer now has that ability...

[DrJambo]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

What I said is that your vid wasn't a great example because there were other factors involved in what was going on. A sniper coulda owned up there too. A medic armed with a G6e would have done perty damned good too. That doesn't invalidate your point, but the vid doesn't prove that point either.

Sorry, as much as it pains me to do so, this time I actually agree with PW !

THe PKM is the gun of choice for everything:

It can snipe as admirably as any sniper rifle. What it lacks on scoped accuracy it more than makes up with 100 ammo, excellent single shot accuracy, excellent damage and not having to reload after every shot.

It outmuscles every other CQC weapon with maybe only the DAO giving any competition.

It's better than every assault rifle as long as you don't move and shoot, and that includes whilst standing.

Its only nemesis is a tank, but then the support kit is not alone in that category. Be aware that if nothing is done in 1.21 to improve the assault rifles or nerf the support unlocks, this game will be in as bad a position as it was in 1.12 with the overpowered jets, helos and noobtoob. There's simply no reason to use any other gun in this game.