Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

[Ghilleman]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Yea, which is why the lay down delay would be helpful, because PKMers would have to set up ambushes, instead of just running down a street, dive, and become uber accurate bullet hoses.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

How is the way they're structured BS? Weapon stats excluded, what is imbalanced in the kits?

Actually there is alot to it. First off, the stats ruined this game. Because everyone looks at balance by what each KIT's score averages, or is capable of achieving per round...

The PKM and other squad automatic weapons should be very accurate; they are killing machines. But having the LMG's accuracy set at a level which simulates a reasonable level of its killing power, it also allows it to achieve high overall scores in a game, because they can also spam ammo bags for points on top of points for kills and assists...

Before this patch the LMG's were innaccurate, and most Support kit points were made by spamming ammo bags. As far as points goes, the Support class was balanced, but relatively no one played it because killing people was a frustrating event, and no one plays a game to be frustrated. You want to kill people in a first person shooter...

Now that the LGM's are fixed to a level that represents their killing power and fear factor, people can gain massive points by killing AND spamming ammo bags, so you have a double whammy...

We have some people now complaining about that double whammy you can get with the Support kit. My stance is, as mentioned above, is that people want to kill in a shooter, that is why we are here. EA/Dice screwed the poooch because they obviously don't know what people want in a shooter..

Guns have to kill. Support now has killer guns.. They are set. now the other kits need to be balanced to match playability in a stat system and compete in points...

Assault weapons are fine, but the class could use more moke, like a total of 3 smokes and 2 flashbangs. THis would make an effective and well rounded assault class. NOt to mention, the flashbangs could work great on a machine gun nest...

Anti-Tank- weak weapons, except for the rockets.. Add the Anti-tank mines to this kit because this is the anti-tank kit.. This gives the class power to gain points on more than one level...

Engineer - give this class the ammo bags from the support kit. Repair points by themselves are weak, especially with a commmander spamming crates on damaged assets.. Now the engineer can pass out ammo, either on foot or by driving by team-mates. This seems like something more fitting to an engineer. They lose the anti-tank mines for the ammo bags, because abti-tank is not the name of this kit..

Support - They get the 100 round to 200 round weapons. So the last thing they really need is the immediate access to more ammo, which they currently have with the ability to spam ammo bags. BUt since we should give ammo bags to the engineer, the support player can now remain deadly and gain its points from killing those people that venture out in the open...

Medic- is fine. YOu can heal yourself, you some of the best primary weapons, and you can revive others. This kit was made correctly...

See, so IMO EA/Dice, built the classes wrong. YOU first build the primary weapons to kill as they are supposed to in a shooter game, and then you add extra duties to balance out the KIT..

What EA/Dice did, was to add the abilities to the class and then alter the weapons killing ability to further balance out the class. WHich means, we have kits with crappy weapons, because thet can spam points by other means then killing.

My point is, allow each class their potential killing power, and then distribute the duties accordingly to balance out the point potential per game of each class..

[Ghilleman]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Support kits were never meant to be accurate. as i mentioned in another thread, the support guns are supposed to be quanity over quality. BOth the SAW and the PKM use 7.62 mm rounds, which are the same size as are used in the BH's miniguns, and we all know that those are REAL accurate. THe kick from weapons of this caliber is horrendous, which is why they are more effective prone. The support calss is an effective killing machine. Just pick somewhere, lay down, and set up fire lanes that cover a street. Anyone walking through there is dead. And in real life, i dont believe that someone with a SAW will lead the charge into an enemy stronghold, thats the assault calss job. support should be laying down covering fire, not heading for the front lines.

[Big_red_Cube]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

PlaneWhore is my Hero....I am going to try that so i can be just like him

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Me personally, I don't judge a class by the amount of points they score, but rather the overall impact they have over a battle. Support now kills more than any other infantry, killing is how you advance forward, and deplete enemy tickets. Case and point is in my video, I kept right on killing past the cut off point of where it was recorded and shortly after we captured that Hotel flag, I moved on fragged the crap out of some more MEC one last time and they lost their final spawn point. Consider the 45 kills I landed as well, and I winded up responsible for the atrophy of over 1/6th of the enemies total tickets (on a 64 player server). If only 5 other people had killed as many people as I had we would've beat the enemy on death tickets alone.

Medics are the only other class I'd consider in the same tier as support because they've got great guns, and of course the ability to revive and heal other players, so that mix of offensive capability and anti-death properties make medic a real winner and important in any battle. Past that all of the other classes are pegs without holes. Assault is outdone by support. Snipers are also outdone by support at all but the most ridiculous ranges (ranges at which even snipers become useless). The AT Kit/Spec Ops are both fairly worthless on a balanced team (also depends on the map) as a mounted TOW, helicopter, other armor, and planes can all kill the tanks and if those players on your team are doing their job you'll have no need for AT/Spec Ops. Engineer is a niche class that serves a very important function for armor whores so I won't bother mentioning them.

I don't think any one in this thread is denying that the support class needed a little bump as the accuracy on all of the support guns needed a bit of tweaking, but as with all of the other "fixes" DICE implemented (AA missiles come to mind) they used a chainsaw rather than a scalpel.

Honestly when I get to thinking about it DICE handled the class balance and design very poorly, and the Support weaponry balance issue is really a symptom of a much larger problem. I bet a nickel if I sat down for the day and brainstormed I could come up with a far more vibrant and balanced system that welcomes all classes and rewards a team that uses a variety of classes to support each others functions. Because lets face it, when is the last time you needed a support guy to toss you an ammo bag?

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Support kits were never meant to be accurate. as i mentioned in another thread, the support guns are supposed to be quanity over quality. BOth the SAW and the PKM use 7.62 mm rounds, which are the same size as are used in the BH's miniguns, and we all know that those are REAL accurate. THe kick from weapons of this caliber is horrendous, which is why they are more effective prone. The support calss is an effective killing machine. Just pick somewhere, lay down, and set up fire lanes that cover a street. Anyone walking through there is dead. And in real life, i dont believe that someone with a SAW will lead the charge into an enemy stronghold, thats the assault calss job. support should be laying down covering fire, not heading for the front lines.

First off, quantity over quality doesn't work in a game.. Accuracy and/or quality is all that counts. IN real life you can have quantity over quality because even if your accuracy sux, no one is willing to risk their life to stop and take aim at someone spamming a SAW in your general direction..

Yes, my point was, the support class wasn't meant to be accurate, in EA/Dice's plans, and the qualifier that i gave is that the Support class has the ability to gain their points by spamming ammo bags. My point is, no one wants to have a LMG that doesn't hit what you aim at, just because you can gain points by spamming ammo bags... Which is why not many people played the kit unless on Karkand, to spam ammo..

So what i was saying above is, the weapons need to be accurate enough so that getting someone in your sights and killing them is not frustrating, because killing is the primary requirement of a shooter..

EA/Dice messed up the kits because they intentially made weapons innacurate so the kits couldn't gain points by spamming other tasks, like ammo bags, and by killing. Problem is, a LMG is supposed to kill. A shotgun is less of a threat, as are the weapons used by the ANti-tank kit, so those are the kits that need more jobs to do to gain points.

The support class should have been called a gunner kit and left to be a man killer...

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Me personally, I don't judge a class by the amount of points they score, but rather the overall impact they have over a battle. Support now kills more than any other infantry, killing is how you advance forward, and deplete enemy tickets. Case and point is in my video, I kept right on killing past the cut off point of where it was recorded and shortly after we captured that Hotel flag, I moved on fragged the crap out of some more MEC one last time and they lost their final spawn point.



?

And this is my point, to a degree. Had you been up on your spot, like you were in the video, but the engineer had the ammo bags and not you, you wouldn't be able to spam all your bullets and grenades like you were, without team help from the engineer to reload you or the commander dropping a supply crate. WHich is why i say, keep the support class accurate like now, reduce its accuracy while standing of course, but take away their ability to hand out ammo bags, and give that to the engineer...

And since the engineer can now spam ammo; give the anti-tank mines to the anti-tank kit.. And of course add smoke and flashbangs to the assault class, and tis game will be balanced and rock...

[anchlovi]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Support kits were never meant to be accurate. as i mentioned in another thread, the support guns are supposed to be quanity over quality. BOth the SAW and the PKM use 7.62 mm rounds, which are the same size as are used in the BH's miniguns, and we all know that those are REAL accurate. THe kick from weapons of this caliber is horrendous, which is why they are more effective prone. The support calss is an effective killing machine. Just pick somewhere, lay down, and set up fire lanes that cover a street. Anyone walking through there is dead. And in real life, i dont believe that someone with a SAW will lead the charge into an enemy stronghold, thats the assault calss job. support should be laying down covering fire, not heading for the front lines.

First thing first, as a one that served the army more than 6 years the LMG are very accurate if used smartly (don't hold the trigger just give small bursts each time), but in real life you don't use the LMG for sniping you use it for covering (and still you don't hold the trigger that long and it also depends on the situation you are at, retreating, ambushing or assaulting). The all story about the recoil is true but you learn how to control it.

By the way, you can find LMG taking part in first lines as a very effective and accurate fire power. The only real problem about LMG is that you need to change the nozzle if you don't pay attention to your fire rate (seeing a red hot nozzle in the night is a beautiful sight) so each LMG gunner has a spare nuzzle in his kit (which can be a nice idea to implement in the game).

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

First thing first, as a one that served the army more than 6 years the LMG are very accurate if used smartly (don't hold the trigger just give small bursts each time), but in real life you don't use the LMG for sniping you use it for covering (and still you don't hold the trigger that long and it also depends on the situation you are at, retreating, ambushing or assaulting). The all story about the recoil is true but you learn how to control it.

By the way, you can find LMG taking part in first lines as a very effective and accurate fire power. The only real problem about LMG is that you need to change the nozzle if you don't pay attention to your fire rate (seeing a red hot nozzle in the night is a beautiful sight) so each LMG gunner has a spare nuzzle in his kit (which can be a nice idea to implement in the game).

Wasn't the whole purpose of the SAW to be used as a support on assault teams? So it is basicly a high capacity M4? And it could be slung over the shoulder with a strap and used in building to building assault teams?

[anchlovi]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

It's very hard (and sometimes painful) to shot the SAW while standing or crouching... It's not recommend to use this kind of weapon when fighting in close Urban places (it's size limits your ability to switch directions in small corridors).

As far as I know the Israeli Army developed a new LMG that is very light and compact and uses 5.56 mm bullets.

[DrJambo]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Anyone still arguing for the changes to the PKM should justify to us why the support unlocks are now far superior to the regular support guns, i.e. RPK, SAW and Type xx. The idea behind the unlocks was to provide interesting alternatives, however, this is no long the case for support.

The new MG36 and PKM have a 3 to 4-fold better accuracy (min dev) than the new and improved regular support guns. Whatever the PKM lacks in rate of fire it more than makes up for in damage per bullet. The MG36 has a higher rate of fire and less damage per bullet than the PKM and is therefore much more similar to the regular guns. So why do they both have a 3 to 4-fold better accuracy?

I've used the new improved regular support guns in 1.2 and they to me now feel balanced and lethal enough to be capable of performing their intended role on the battlefield. They're effectively twice as accurate and therefore twice as good. The PKM and MG36 are 8-fold more accurate.

There is no justification. Period.

[Surge1975]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

I Dont think theres much wrong with the pkm,yeah its powerfull but isnt it supposed to be,everyone is always complaining bout something with this game.why cant u just enjoy it..tbh it doesnt matter to me what patch we use i play the game for fun,if i get medals/points along the way fine,u lot should try it...

[KHAN]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

Nice shooting. I went on a rooftop a week back and used the PKM to very good effect. I wasn't using it 1 click though I didnt' realise the PKM had been increased that much.....

Nice vid.

[DrJambo]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

I Dont think theres much wrong with the pkm,yeah its powerfull but isnt it supposed to be,everyone is always complaining bout something with this game.why cant u just enjoy it..tbh it doesnt matter to me what patch we use i play the game for fun,if i get medals/points along the way fine,u lot should try it...

Maybe not now, but what happens when the rest of the online players who don't for whatever reason look more deeply into the weapon stats or read the forums start using the PKM....?? Even now many of the casual gamers will still not know the PKM (or MG36) is any better and will still base their opinions on the previous PKM incarnations.

Look how long it took for the GL "noobtubing" to really become a pandemic in BF2 city maps. Once it gains momentum with the casual gamers I believe that eventually the same will happen with the PKM - everyone will be in on it and in essence a new noobtoob will be reborn. Mark my words, where we're at now is just the tip on the iceberg....

I've already taken my kill death ratio using lmgs from 0.69 to 1.47 in the week or two since 1.2 was released and it's still on the up.

[AlphaNut]

Re: Rooftop Camping PKM Style, now with video.

I'm really looking forward to the day where all my enemies on karkand are carrying LMGs
I'll be grabbing my L96 that moment, and teach them a nice little lesson.

I learned to adapt to the new pkm. Why can't others?

Dice should make their weapons shoot cotton instead of lead. Maybe the people would be happy again, and only tanks/apc's would be able to dominate a map...