Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

[TokenBrit]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

Since the changes to Anti-air missiles came into effect via 1.2, lots of former elite pilots seem to be having a lot of trouble deal with the change for what was effectivly a WWII enviroment to what's now a more accurate modern day theater.

[Ahem. I'm not suggesting that BF2 is "realistic". The scale is way to close to be conistered a simulation. However, the basics of modern air combat are still present]

The skill of air combat hasn't been removed... it's been moved. It's no longer about who's got the best framerates/twitch skills. It's about thinking and your knowlage of how modern combat works.

The number one thing to remember now is that if someone gets tone on you and you don't have flares, you've messed up and you're likely to die for it. Intensity has been ramped WAY up. The importance of getting in on your enemy and taking him out fast cannot be underestimated. The skill is now in your manuevers that keep your tail clear while allowing you to drop in on the enemy.

I could wax poetic on the subject for pages and pages (I'm a modern air combat buff), but instead I found ya a great link that covers it all:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fta/acmintro.htm#Menu

Check it out. Lots to read there, but if you can grasp the basics it will help lots.

Remember that scale is reduced and in turn, acceptable firing angles are looser.

Yes, yes. Feel free to flame and groan and growl rather than adapting and learning. It only means I'll get ta shoot down more out-of-date, has been pilots. I don't got a problem with that.
:p

LOL what a farce.
Do you really think that BF2's arcarde physics engine in any way actually resembles real world physics? Anything you read that even mentions lift, drag, or any such malarky is entirely unapplicable.
How many modern air combat fights take place at a range of 50-100 metres? The fact that you think this second hand unapplicable knowledge makes you qualified to comment about a GAME, just because you are some sort of "buff" is laughable.
I might as well claim my degree in simulating dynamic systems infers me with the neo-like ability to know exactly where bullets will fly, or that a NASCAR enthusiast would have the inherent ability to drive a FAV better than me.

[WarGimp]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

Ah... found another good site here: http://www.ao.net/~chuck/atf/acmsycho.htm
Includes a diagram of the Split S (with a 90 degree break).

Another thing to remember with these escape menuevers is that they will generally not help you if don't have flares and you've got a missile already heading for your tailpipe. Dogding a missile in a plane is like dogding a bullet on foot... it generally doesn't happen. You can only dodge the guy who's aiming the missile/bullet. That's why you need to do your break as soone as you drop flares. It's about your only hope.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

LOL what a farce.
Do you really think that BF2's arcarde physics engine in any way actually resembles real world physics? Anything you read that even mentions lift, drag, or any such malarky is entirely unapplicable.
How many modern air combat fights take place at a range of 50-100 metres? The fact that you think this second hand unapplicable knowledge makes you qualified to comment about a GAME, just because you are some sort of "buff" is laughable.
I might as well claim my degree in simulating dynamic systems infers me with the neo-like ability to know exactly where bullets will fly, or that a NASCAR enthusiast would have the inherent ability to drive a FAV better than me.

Trolling for attention, arent we? I think its common sense that flight in BF2 isnt rea/sim level. If you just need to troll, better move away.

[Thirdeyez]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

""""Missiles are designed to explode if they over shoot, (Now you know why you keep getting hit even though the missile went past you) your attempt to pull around the missile will bring you close enough to it that on explosion, you will take damage. (Note: missile damage is frequently collateral damage, direct hits are not required to kill you. A common missile design throws steel bars in a wide ball shaped area when it explodes). You need to judge timing for a break away from the missile as you drop chaff and flares. Near the end of the missile’s flight (after the motor has burned out) you want to pull a high G turn causing the missile to try and pull a turn with you. The chaff and flares may confuse the missile as it tries to track you and it may lock onto that leaving you a get away. Don’t wait too long or, once again, you will be in the blast radius of the missile.
I mentioned motor burn out, once a missile motor is burned out, it loses maneuvering and any high G turn it is forced to make becomes unrecoverable energy that causes it to slow down. Most simulators do not do a very good job of this, but these types of maneuvers will still work.
Extra Added Bonus:
In the EF2000 family of games you can put a missile at your 12 o’clock and do wide barrel rolls. This will spoof a missile just about every time. Problem is in EF, you usually have more than one coming at you at a time.""""

after I read all that i relized the link was pointless.
Comparing the game to the reality is impossible to use for tips and such.

these missles we face in Bf2 are 100% code designed to follow and kill.
They wil do 90 degree turns to kill they have no programming or burn out, there just a serious of game code set to hae them follow and destroy.

[WarGimp]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

Actually, that's a rather viable point. In an ultra realistic sim, flares/chaff aren't likely to shake a missile by themselves. Note that he talks about using counter measures in addition to and during escape manuevers.

It's even more critical in BF2 since missiles do have very tight tracking.

Thus, unfortunatly your post about the pointlessness of the thread is, while having a point, has in fact been rendered pointless... if you get my point.
:p

[Sir. Shpox]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

I believe the Gimp is trying to help but I find the the link entirely useless, This game encorporates aspects of realism but to think that these things.

CRASH'S RULE NUMBER 2: If you have someone or something shooting at you, get out of it's way before you even think about attacking a target.

^ I know if I did such a thing, I wouldn't get many kills at all.

The game is not this advanced, your better off studying and checking out the game files to see what you can get away with or better yet, go out to the Airforce and fly a jet.

Let us not forget this is a game with certain physics, flying like your a real pilot doesn't exactly mean that it will help, Play the game more till you see what you can and can't do in a jet, make some frap recordings and post them here.

[Scotty]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

I don't mind the jets at all now. I prefer to have the possibility of getting shot down instead of flying around in circles to avoid missles and bombing everything in site.

With that being said, I think one thing that would make many of the pilots (and I don't consider myself a pilot) happy is a few more flares. For instance, 3 sets of flares on board. They can be dropped as often or whenever you wish. They will refill once you fly over the runway. No more than 3 though, otherwise people will be spamming them nonstop. There still has to be a possibility that a pilot will run out and then be in trouble.

As for people complaining about it becoming a hide and seek sort of battle, most modern air combat isn't dogfighting. It is missles fired with a radar lock from quite some ways away. They never see each other. Since BF2 air combat has the jets flying around basically in a little box, you just have to be on the lookout for other jets, rather than just staring at the ground to find your next bombing target. The biggest enemy of a jet SHOULD be another jet and now it is. A pilot who takes down the enemy pilot and realizes he has some free air space can then attack ground targets.

This isn't the end of the world. I've found the flying to be much more entertaining now. It also cut down on half the team standing on the runway shooting each other for the jets and helis. That alone makes it fantastic.

[Boojie]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

I dont see what people's problem is. Gimpy posted a site that might help people who are struggling with countering the improved missiles. He never claimed to be a good pilot, never claimed to have a lot of experience in the air. Perhaps he doesnt like standing around like a stoned crow waiting for a jet to spawn once in a while.......

I dont understand why ppl like nastie have to have a shot at someone trying to help the community....?

It's simple. It's the BSF girls who think they are cool.

(Thanks for the link gimp...we understand you were trying to be helpful.)

[WarGimp]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

It's simple. It's the BSF girls who think they are cool.

(Thanks for the link gimp...we understand you were trying to be helpful.)

Trying?
Farq that!
I'm a god of posting! Infact, I evented posting. They invented moderators because of my brilliant posts and the way I'm too often right. This makes the people who are wrong whine and complain, so they were forced to balance my rightness by deleting half my posts and making these noob admin funtions.
:p

Boy, that sounds silly don't it?

[tk471138]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

i find it funny how this thread which had the intention of helping others turned in to gimp defending him self every thread you people are RETARDED

[WarGimp]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

I believe the Gimp is trying to help but I find the the link entirely useless, This game encorporates aspects of realism but to think that these things.

CRASH'S RULE NUMBER 2: If you have someone or something shooting at you, get out of it's way before you even think about attacking a target.

^ I know if I did such a thing, I wouldn't get many kills at all.

Er, yer gonna dissmiss all the content in that rather extensive site because of Crash's Rules (which is a flight sim fan's helpful suggestions... not the meat of what I was trying to get across to folks). Fer that matter, it's not wrong. If you've got someone on your tail or ground AA is locking you up, and you busy yourself with trying to kill someone else... yer dead meat.

The game is not this advanced, your better off studying and checking out the game files to see what you can get away with or better yet, go out to the Airforce and fly a jet.

Interestingly enough, this last suggestion is why I've got so much interest in the subject. I wanted ta fly when I was young. Unfortunatly, I'm athsmatic and couldn't get in. I grew up near CFB Comox and in my teen years ended up drinking with quite a few pilots and heard lots of interesting stories. Yes, this is a tangent. Just thought I'd share.
:p

Let us not forget this is a game with certain physics, flying like your a real pilot doesn't exactly mean that it will help, Play the game more till you see what you can and can't do in a jet, make some frap recordings and post them here.

Yup, some of the physics are kinda soft, but you can bleed speed, you can stall, you can even "get bent" (unstable flight).

The intention is not to view that link and say "this is how to fly in BF2". Rather it's a very good example of some tactics and manuevers that you can employ. It also does underline how deadly missiles are both in the real world and in other games. So, yeah, don't take it as textbook... take is as insperation.

Fraps lags me out, but I'll see what I can do about diggin up some battle recorder files (when I sort out WTF is wrong with my bookmarks) and getting some vid clips together. This has the bonus of me being able to use some really skilled pilots as the subjects... 'cause ask I keep saying, I make no claims about being one of 'em.

[Boojie]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

Unfortunatly, I'm athsmatic and couldn't get in.

I hear ya. I had that problem with my gf last night. :laugh:

[MackTheKnifeAU]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

I think the best pilots will be the ones that lurk, stalk and prowl the skies the best, not neccessarily the best bombers, or the best gun shooters.

[WarGimp]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

I think the best pilots will be the ones that lurk, stalk and prowl the skies the best, not neccessarily the best bombers, or the best gun shooters.

Those are the smart pilots.
"Best" is a relative term. Yeah, it takes skill to bomb and use those guns effectively, but if you're stupid and fly into AA cover hotzones... well, you're both skilled and stupid.

[MeNoPausE]

Re: Gift to Pilots stuggling to adapt.

Planewhore said:

Skill is still a factor, as I'm still able to rack up big scores and come off every game with a gold medal like I used to, and while almost 3 months out of practice. But I'm no longer able to or guaranteed to dominate every single game without question through air superiority and dogfighting experience.

Yay, the patch worked!!! since Dice was specifically trying to stop you...