1.2 Death of Attack Helis

[]UK-C[ Mindzai]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Egotistical and Arrogant... for saying that I can stay alive in a Helo and do well? Don't recall gloating about it, I surely don't recall saying anyone else was substandard for not being able to do the same. Just said I could, and that it's possible. Also, considering all it takes is teamwork... I belevie the A.A. is just fine as is.

...damn. Even reading back over my own work multiple times, I really don't see where you're pulling this from. Can you show me what you read that helped you form the mindset that I'm so full of myself? Like I said, I cannot find it.

Is this "flame Paas" night or somthing? Did I miss the memo?

{WP}Paas

Examine the fact that so many people seem to have a problem with your posts. I have no particular problem with what you say, but the way you say it is what gets people's backs up (well, mine at least, maybe others just don't like what you have to say )

One of the defining aspects of arrogance is the innability to find fault in yourself.

[Paas]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Did you see...the memo...about the TPS reports?

:hi:

"Did ya' get that thing I sent ya'?" - Hippo (Harvey Birdman)

{WP}Paas

[Paas]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Examine the fact that so many people seem to have a problem with your posts. I have no particular problem with what you say, but the way you say it is what gets people's backs up (well, mine at least, maybe others just don't like what you have to say )

One of the defining aspects of arrogance is the innability to find fault in yourself.

I do find it odd they have a problem with my post. Yet, I would being pulling everyone's leg if I came up on the forums and said, " I hate the current crop of Anti-Air! I cannot fly worth a darn with it no matter what I do! Aaaaargh! "... that simply isn't the case.

What limited time I have had with it post 1.2 has been great. I haven't run into the "overwhelming" odds that the others here seem to have. With that in hand, I propose that there is a way around it. It's defeatable.

...what do I get in return? Stat divers... you try to help somene, they dive into one of the most "abused" stat systems I have seen in a while. It's not even, " I don't agree Paas.. Here is why". No, it's, " I don't agree Paas, because you haven't flown as much as I have on ranked servers."

Que'!?

As for finding fault in myself. I truely don't dwell on my shortcommings. I have a tendency to be an ass. Yet, I refrain from directly insulting people. I might take jabs at their ideas, yet I hardly ever take jabs at the person; even if they deserve it.

Maybe I'm coming off a bit harsh? Could be. I honestly don't see it, yet, if that's what everyone is getting (bad vibes). Then, my bad? ...I'm still sticking by my stand that the A. A. is just fine though. Unrealistic, but nothing else in this game is too realistic either. Unbeatable? Hardly.

{WP}Paas

[Boojie]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Examine the fact that so many people seem to have a problem with your posts. I have no particular problem with what you say, but the way you say it is what gets people's backs up

That's what I like about the WP's posts...he examines what the other guy says, and then in one excrutiatingly bold stroke...rips the guy to shreds.

I'm more surprised about this whole thread than maybe anyone. While I dont know HKS personally, I've seen his other posts before elsewhere and he seemed like a reasonable guy. Yet this patch is got him bent. I dont get it. WP makes sense. Had he toned it down, he might not have gotten the venom, but I like what he said, in the manner in which he said it. He just came straight. No BS. I think the Capt is just taking it out on whoever might be pro 1.2 and WP was standing there waiting to take the bait. Poor dood.

haha.

[]UK-C[ Mindzai]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Again, it's not what you say but the way that you say it. I completely agree with what you are saying.

To me, the tone of your posts suggests arrogance, but hey, this thread isn't about my feelings on the tone of your posts after all. Besides, I'm sure you're a nice guy, and an internet forum is hardly the best place to make character judgments anyway after all. Apologies for jumping in with my size 12's and judging you based on your writing It's 9am and I haven't slept yet, i'm just grumpy

[=CKA= Noncog]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

The guy that started this thread is totally wrong in my view. Take Ghost Town for example. Previously, it was not uncommon for a group of four guys that knew what they were doing to totally dominate that map with the attack helos. Totally. Any half-good pilot could still come out with a guaranteed gold if they whored a chopper, unless there was a decent chopper opposing him/her.

Post 1.2 I jump into GT, my favourite map, and sure enough there's a squad of four guys on Spetz camping both helos. They were utterly raping us and we were heading towards a 200 - 0 defeat. I jump in a mobile AA to see what 1.2 has done, and sure enough the helos are no longer dominating. It didn't take long for them to start whining "the new stingers are bs!!!". Of course, rapists love to rape and anything that stops them is unfair. Well you know what? The game was made a lot closer and they still emerged with some of the best scores. The difference from 1.12 to 1.2 is that instead of being 50 points ahead of anyone else in the server, they were only 5 points. That, gamerz, is called balance. Cry me a river.

[Boojie]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Again, it's not what you say but the way that you say it.

I need to work on that myself at the job. I have a reputation. They call me the rabid chihuahua.

[Paas]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

...WP was standing there waiting to take the bait. Poor dood.
haha.

You soooooooooo could have warned me that I was walking into a trap... :laugh:

Oh well. It doesn't bother me as much as it would seem. No, I'm just slightly confused.

I figured I was bringing a different perspective with some "meat" behind them. Only to find out that I have been potentially coming off as an ass the entire time?

I don't doubt that. I just need "somthing", an example, pointed out to me. It's like peer reviews in essays. It's so hard to pick out your own mistakes, yet your fellow students just zero in on em'.

{WP}Paas

[bloodbrood]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

hey is there a site besides EA's site wherei can download this patch? im getting 7kbps from EA because im in asia. are there any asia mirrors available?

[Boojie]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

The guy that started this thread is totally wrong in my view.

I agree with you. Totally. It just so happens that the guy that started it (HKS) is a precent decent guy. Rather than add fuel to the fire, I'll just let him vent. (Plus, I play on his server all the time). :box:

[Kattspya]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

...I fail to understand how static A.A. poses a real threat to anything. Especially considering it has a decreased arming range.

Did I mention it's glued to the same spot it has been since the game was released?

I guess this goes to show that A.A. really never was a threat to the pilots of old, because no one seems to know where it's at and keeps getting shot down by it.

As for mobile Anti-Air. It's supposed to be the dominate aspect against both Helo's and Jets. It does a darn good job of that. It's not like it has any other function other than to shoot down Enemy planes.

{WP}Paas

Yeah it's a good thing that the AA's field of fire never interlocks. There can only be one possible AA emplacement to target you at one time.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Look this is a venting session for me about the nerfed helis. If you have read any of my previous posts, know me at all, played with me you will hopefully find what Boojie says to be true.

1.2 and the nerfed helis and the uber AA has ****ed me but. Its taken my enjoyment out of BF2 and that's why I'm "venting" I saw no need to change the heli's at all. Nerfing them plus adding extreme AA is just rediculous.

If anyone has played on our server they know how I fly. They would know I don't "rape" especially uncaps because its against our rules. If I flew to rape we would have an empty server. At times when you can rape an uncap under our rules when a team has all flags which happens rarely, I did rape the carrier with a pro gunner alongside me. We made nearly there whole team leave. My Mrs and another of our clan guys got so ****ed off at constantly spawn dying my Mrs threw her mouse and my other bud left as well. That's what I could do if I wanted to, but don't. Its not sportsman like in my view, however fun it was for us its not fun to be on the end of it.

Look can people lay of {WP}Paas I don't want this to turn into a flame thread. However arrogant he seemed to come off (my view also) can we get back to the topic please with usefule discussion so it doesn't end in the bin.

{WP}Paas I use all those techniques and more and against a skilled team using teamwork they are all ineffective. Flying low means your tank bait. Flying high or on the outskirts of the map means your plane bait. Take out a stinger sure but then there is another or an AA tank as well plus a plane or 2 all locked on with super AA.

What about peoples thoughts on allowing helis to see what stinger site is locked on like planes? Why do planes get to know and we don't? What about the same for AA tanks?

Offtopic: Damn our server has crashed so many times with 1.2 as well grrrrr!

[Paas]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

{WP}Paas I use all those techniques and more and against a skilled team using teamwork they are all ineffective. Flying low means your tank bait. Flying high or on the outskirts of the map means your plane bait. Take out a stinger sure but then there is another or an AA tank as well plus a plane or 2 all locked on with super AA.

What about peoples thoughts on allowing helis to see what stinger site is locked on like planes? Why do planes get to know and we don't? What about the same for AA tanks?

Hmmm... There is really no way to avoid being Tank bait. Wait, what I mean is that that's your "best bet". That's what I typically bank on.

Yes, I know a tank can cause some serious injury to me, but they are the one's that take the most ability to actually damage the Helo. It's a 100% aiming act with tanks, vs. simply the lock-on of Jets.

So. Seeing as that's your best bet at staying alive, devote extra time to quicly engaging tanks. It's a skill, one that has to be developed and isn't really normal in the scope of the old Anti-Air (Even though it's the skill me and my Co-Pilot use).

It goes like this (and no, it doesn't work everytime. Yet, it does work 7 times outa' 10); first of all stay along roads and rivers. That's the safest bet. Using Gulf as an example, you want to fly wide left and line yourself behind the massive warhouse. That's now officially your "HQ'. If you stay low enough, and close enough, to that bridge while watching your Mini-Map, you're in a pefect position to perfrom and extremely quick "Strafe" strike on any targets designated by your team.

You simply lift while already pointing in the direction you plan on attack, and you "swoop" across the map quickly. All an enemy vehicle should see is Helo for a split second if your have the timing down right. The hard part comes afterwards though... you have to get low and fast amongst the buildings and save your flares for the right time.

It's a outrageously complicated process, I will agree, but it's thrilling and gives a huge sense of accomplishment. Every map has it's little niche like this. Multiples actually. Gulf is the most obvious, not many Jets "flank" the river.. so you're pretty secure as long as you stay on the inner side of the bridge (closest to MEC primary, without actually exposing yourself). Truth be told, your biggest nemesis is Artillery and an Enemy Helo.

Nothing is full proof, but finding this little "launch points" all over the map can help you direct your strike, and speed of it's delivery. Trust me, there's nothing more annoying to a tank to be traveling from one location to another, hear a Helo, and already be dead. If you get it down pact you should truely be able to strike your target before anyone has any idea that you're active.

...like I said, nothing is full proof. There is the risk that a Jet will Ram you. Enemy Anti-Tank will find you, or an APC will travel the river. Yet, it offers the best line of attack to the entire Beach, and construction site.

I'm not sure how to navigate the Hotel. It's a little bit too hot over in that area. So, I just stay away from it.

I cannot stress how crucial these strategic moves are now if want you stay alive for a long time in a Helo. You have to strike with the power and quickness that is similar to a Jet. ...sans a good bit of speed and climb.

{WP}Paas

[Kattspya]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

This thread almost had me banging my head on my desk I **** you not. The sheer effort of not listening to the other side and making stuff up is staggering.

Here are some "facts" that I've discovered so far. Anyone care dispute them? Anyone care to argue that none of these factors should be changed?

The AA in pre 1.2 needed a large boost against airplanes and a more consistent pattern against helos.

The AA in 1.2 can't miss if you're out of flares.

If you are locked on over a certain height you are dead no matter what you do. Flaring and diving at maximum speed will not help you. This means helos can't fly above that height unless they go above 350 (or whatever range AA has).

If two jeeps open up on you you are toast each and every time. Pre 1.2 one jeep was pretty easy and two often meant you died. In this version you barely have a chance against a jeep if you don't find him fast. Luckily most people can't aim with the .50.

The AA ignores flares pretty often. It's even more common to not be able to break the lock of aircraft when they have a solid tone. If you are forced to flare before the solid tone you will die from the ones who slow down.

It takes very little skill to use AA effectively.

Ground targets can see you much furhter out than you can see them. They're not even visible inside the range of the wire guided.

[c0mbat-heli]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

yup patch 1.2 is the death of attack choppers... of course if you fly in a 24 player server with hardly any high rankers, you will fly as if it were still patch 1.12, but if you fly on a 64 player server with a bunch of high rankers.. you wont last more than 4 minutes...

it was really stupid of dice to make so many changes to the helicopter..and im pretty sure Dice's beta testing team is full of a bunch of n00b infantry whores...

60% of the people that baught BF2, baught it for the vehicles, the other 40%are the noobs that complain about the vehicles, and beg and cry to Dice for changes...

Dont change the game to help the player.. change the player to help the game.


Today was my first full day flying with the patch.. ill tell you what.. in 4 hours i got TKed 21 times by AA from the ground, and from the jets.