1.2 Death of Attack Helis

[Paas]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

You are an idiot.

So basically, when you cannot form a basis for debate, you resort to slander? Nice. Least I know what I'm dealing with now.

{WP}Paas

[Lugal317]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

So basically, when you cannot form a basis for debate, you resort to slander? Nice. Least I know what I'm dealing with now.

{WP}Paas

Read what he said... I have no reason to reply to someone that says that anyone who gets shot down by a tank sucks at flying a helicopter. With the 1.2 changes thats absolutely absurd.

[stilla-killa]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

AA is called that for a reason. oh and it stands anti aircraft.

[tcp1]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

I agree that the same old tactics dont apply anymore but dont you think that the chopper got a helluva hit in this patch. I do, im not sure why so many aspects of it were changed, kinda crazy IMHO. I have still had some good rounds in it post patch so im not complaining too bad but I feel the changes were excessive.

[[DC]M4guy624]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

...and quit siting skill all the damn time. If ya' had any of the skill ya' "claimed" to have. You would be up there with the post 1.2 flyboys wreaking the same havoc as you were before. With a tad bit more caution, and a smidge more objective.

{WP}Paas

I can deal w/ the AA, hell i'm doing it right now w/ a keyboard and when i grab my joystick this weekend 20mm hell will rain down on the AA sites.

I said missing a straight flying jet was absurd, but missiles shouldn't have been made into a 95% accurate weapon. If you bank+full afterburn it should dodge it (unless against a good shooter who aimed infront of you then it should hit directly.) The problem is the lack of flares w/ jets you get one flare and it takes awhile to reload, now im not saying it should reload as fast as the heli's but it should be quicker.

My beef with the AA is it ruins the teamplay aspect of flying in a jet for me and my clan. What we did is have a squad on VOIP, and when the ground pounders see an enemy vehicle that they were ill-equipped to take out they would spot it and tell me "Hey look at the map near this base" and I'd come in and kill it. Now the AA is a 95% of my concentration task, I have to come in from certain angle, make long distance gun runs etc. etc. I can't rush in and help the ground pounder because god forbid a AA site is occupied I've got 2 missiles up my @SS that are going to hit no matter what maneuver i do. So basically i can still rack up kills in the jets, by taking out AA sites etc. but for playing with a clan it totally ruins the aspect of air superiority.

I do like the missiles when it comes to dogfighting though, real air battles are a first shot ordeal no more endless rings of floating missiles, though i wish it was a little harder to get a lock on, it should be if you get a good lock... you fire... you hit... you kill. so the superior pilot wins and if an inferior pilot gets on your butt you can out fly him and he won't be able to lock on and then you survive to get on his butt and take him down.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Getting hit by a tank or AT doesn't mean you're a bad pilot. The increased power of the AA has now forced helicopters to fly very low, making them more suceptable to AT rockets, Tanks, APCs, FAVs, and sometimes GLs.

You are right sir. 5ft off the deck to try and avoid AA makes you tank bait, APC bait, .50 cal bait, AT bait and to a certain but limited extent GL bait.

There are maps with less or limited AA sites which certainly aren't as bad. I'm talking about maps where there are lots of AA emplacements including mobile AA like Dragon Valley, Oman, even Ghost town. On ghost town now you can't even take off if someone is manning AA or has mobile AA aimed in your direction. The heli's take off so slowly there is no way to avoid it. No matter what skill level you have it means **** in these situations. Again helis don't have a reasonable chance on this map. Is it reasonable that a heli shouldn't even be able to take off?

I don't expect helis to be at the top of the food chain, but they shouldn't be near the bottom of the food chain either.

Remember I am talking about servers where there is a heavy focus on teamwork. Not your Official EA servers where everyone is a rambo. I can still rack up lots of kills on them because they don't play as a team.

If they are going to make AA this effective then they should remove some of the AA sites. Having an AA site in every base on Dragon Valley is a joke. Why does there need to be so many?

If MEC have captured the beach bases on Oman, then your screwed. People say to use the terrain to avoid them. How do you leave the carrier and avoid AA? Its not possible to not have AA target you or have .50 cals APCs or even tanks manning the beach. Some will say fly low, then a tank blows you or you get owned by .50 cals or APC's Once you get there if you can what are you suppose to do? Fly round the edges of the map and look for grunts running around? Go and take out that AA site to be shot down by another or a plane rape you with the mg or AA?

Helis were nerfed when there was nothing wrong with them before. Effective teamwork against helis in 1.12 or before could put an end to them quick smart. Now all it takes is a noob rambo.

[Boojie]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Oh my friggin' god! Hell people.. do ya' not read the crap after ya' type it? Is it all just blind anger and confusion!? What's the damn deal!?

Look. Capt.HKS, amigo, homey. The darn A.A. was "BROKEN" post 1.12. Broken mah' man, not working correctly. It didn't requite "a lot of skill" to down a jet, it required "a lot of luck" or "another jet". There are MULTIPLE reports of A.A. simply changing its mind while chasing an unflared jet. Yes, it used to just change it's friggin' mind at the drop of a hat. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Quit acting like it wasn't the freaking case... Jesus. This denial is confusing.

Now, onto the next one. "Heli's ... don't have a reasonable chance of avoiding A.A...."; wha!? You act is if there is a platform in EVERY location on the friggin' map. You know where Anti-Air is?! It's at the flags... you know those things your ground pounders are usually charging for. Yes, those. Stay away from them unless you're needed. It's not your job to apply a solid coat of "Rape" to the infantry. It's your job to make sure two forces don't rape your friendlies: Tanks/Other Helos. Do your job, quit trying to fly in like god's gift to modern warfare, and you will live longer. Don't expose your Helo unless it's needed. Don't patroll within' the locking distance of A.A.

It's really that simple... if you cannot survive in a post 1.2-patch, you really should just leave the Helo alone. I have no problem staying airborne for extended periods of time; neither does a vast majority of the Helo pilots I play with and against. What's your deal?

{WP}Paas

Something tells me I found someone to fear in the air.

:salute:


It seems like you got your act together and you're up for the challenge of 1.2 air warfare. Tell me where you play...so I dont go there. I wanna live!

haha

[M0_M0ney]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Flown with some good pilots, and even on Dragon Valley with its ****load of AA vehicles, it's still very effective. The only difference is now you actually have to be GOOD, and have to actually MOVE when you start seeing your armor rocketting towards zero. You have to retreat a lot more, fly low, and act tactically instead of just waiting for something to get spotted so you can unload a hailstorm of rockets at it.

Get a good gunner. Get a good team. AA vehicles get spotted and then TVed before they can figure out what's going on. Jeeps eat the chaingun. Humvees and vans eat rockets or more TV missiles. Tanks and APCs eat more TV missiles. AA sites eat whatever I feel like blowing them up with.

Being a sucky pilot/gunner no longer earns you a K/D above 1. Live with it.

Couldn't have said it better myself so I wont, I'll just say

DITTO

[Lugal317]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Something tells me I found someone to fear in the air.

:salute:


It seems like you got your act together and you're up for the challenge of 1.2 air warfare. Tell me where you play...so I dont go there. I wanna live!

haha

Considering he has 30hrs in the chopper and 18 in the plane, I doubt you really have anything to fear. He just likes to SOUND like he has it all figured out, when in fact alot of people own him on a regular basis.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Considering he has 30hrs in the chopper and 18 in the plane, I doubt you really have anything to fear. He just likes to SOUND like he has it all figured out, when in fact alot of people own him on a regular basis.

:laugh:

He has 676 kills I have 8000. He has 31:45 I have 228hrs. Considering that I don't whore a heli for myself, I play for the gunner, I could easily have a kdr of 5:1 if I whored the heli for kills myself. I play as a team where the gunner racks up the kills. If the gunner misses I mop them up. I'm a considerate pilot not a true whore. Hours wise yeah I prefer to fly helis and I enjoy the challenge.

Besides the majority of his kills could be as a co-pilot or whoring in the BH so for me your opinion means nothing and in fact I challenge you to see how long you can last in an attack heli on our server. If your up for it either pm me, contact me via our site www.r2clan.com and we will arrange a time to fly in 1.2 I want to see your skills and see how long you last and see whether you are merely all talk, which isn't hard to see instead of action.

We can play it both ways. I will gun for you, you gun for me. Then I will teamswitch and see how long you last against me or our squad heli hunting. If you can last longer than 1 minute in the air in 1.2 I will be very suprised.

So how about you put your money where you mouth is?

Same challenge goes out to anyone who thinks they have these marvellous tactics for 1.2 Again put your money where you mouth is.

[CaptainPuffy]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

I like the idea of giving the heli's say 5 flares, and let them deploy them as they wish, dont make them wait to recharge, just make them have a limited ammount. This way, if you make a heli drop all 5 flares, he will retreat to reload since he's now vunurable, not to mention that 50 Cals are still effective.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

...wow. Just wow. I don't know what to even say to this, oh, wait!

You do know the A.A. was primarly adjusted to compensate for Jets right? I mean, they were kinda' the "Unreasonably hard to stop". Wait.. Wait, I'm wrong. No, A.A. was adjusted because "IT DIDN'T FRIGGIN' WORK CORRECTLY"...

Actually it did. I have downed my fair share of chopper pilots and jet pilots. It DID work. It DIDNT work well. Theres a difference, especially if you overdramatise the issue. The mastering of AA involved 2 very important things:
1) Correct angle, different angles under different situation.
2) Correct timing, WHEN to shoot and when NOT TO WASTE the missiles.

But hey, its easier to yell out and say "it doesnt work".

I mean, what the hell, outa' all people I expected YOU to at least not spew this B.S. Yet, you're riding this insane notion that the A.A. was somehow fine pre-patch.

No. Im riding this "insane notion" that you could use the AA and be effective with it IF youve gathered some skills. Theres a HUGE difference .
Since I also believe that since AA is not fun to use noone was willing to master it. So an increase in efficiency while keeping in mind that people wont spend an equal time in an AA as they do with jat was necessary. HOWEVER- I do not support this- if you have a lock-on tone, and the target has no flares, the target is history. I dont support this. And remember, this argument is about AA, and its mainly about nerfing the chopper armor.

Yes. Teamwork could take down a Helo Pre-Patch.. Guess what, you damn sure weren't doing it with the A.A. Usually it was a combination of Anti-Tank, and a small Vehicle; Vodnik or somthing. It worked, it worked well. Although, you're hard pressed to use the same tactics against a Jet! A jet that can carpet BOMB you faster than you can aim at it.

Actually I was. I was being a bait and the .50 cal was the primary weapon. I kept the chopper busy, he kept on shooting. Whenever the chopper went after the .50 cal he maintained a straight flight pattern. Most of the times I hit. Whenever the chopper came after me, the .50 cal(s) took him out or damaged badly for the same reason. I didnt form a "squad" to do this, but I observed the battlefield. I still took my chances whenever I could, but AA+.50 cal scenario I just presented worked pretty damn good. Now imagine if people actually did this all the time prepatch?

Against jets? I remember being hit by AA multiple times while being engaged in a dogfight. I didnt like that all it took was a simple maneuver of turn to get rid of a missile. I think that DICE had SP in mind, where AAs hit you far more often and even there it was a bit too easy to evade them. All in all- MY beliefs as you were so easy to judge- MY beliefs are that AA needed an accuracy boost against jets but I guess we all knew that choppers would be beat up by it the most. If the counter-element against choppers and jets is beefed up so its effective, nerfing the target becomes unnecessary. You can sum up my opinion about the matter with that sentence.

...so. The A.A. is adjusted. Helos are just a victim of the tweak. That's all. Although, infantry shouldn't have to work exceptionally hard to take down a helo that doesn't have to work exceptionally hard to take down a "Tank/APC/Helo/Blackhawk/Anti-Air Vehicle/Static A.A. Emplacement/Troy"... Not like the Helo took the greatest of skill to operate Pre-Patch.

What an ignorant statement. I remember I couldnt do **** with a chopper until I worked hard (was forced to work hard) to reach a level where I didnt crash into trees. And even then I was completely owned. And shooting that .50 cal hardly would require much effort. Positioning that .50 cal and pre-work should.

I think many noble pilots confuse themselves. Aiming that machine gun into a target requires you "little effort" to pull off. But remember when you started up? I do. I couldnt hit jack****, I couldnt hit jack**** even then when I was reasonably good in dogfighting.

The reason WHY an "attack" chopper cant fulfill its supporting role in BF2 is because there is no frontlines where you support your troops. Action is pretty much everywhere. You can get hit by an AA you thought was safe. Attack chopper "supporting" ground troops as an idea can only be taken seriously in "supply lines" gamemode with a pretty much fixed frontline.

Theres a thing. This topic is about helos vs AA and how the situation forces helos into a tight spot as soon as they leave the "safe zone" so they cant fulfill their role as an "attack" chopper. Due to it being relatively low, behind cover, it makes them suspectible to ground fire and a skilled tankdriver can easily sink a shot into its hull.

One more thing I should underline. I love BF2 because of its air action, therefore expect me to always be biased.

[Brindled]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

i've got close to 300 hrs in the attack choppers. whether any of the complaints "for" or "against" are right or wrong, one thing is for sure. i wont be flying the chopper as much.

[tcp1]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Hey, you have my quote in your sig, cool.

[]UK-C[ Mindzai]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

I had 2 rounds on sharqi today where I flew for the entire time, and we died about 3 times each round, which is the same as before. Admitedly all of the kills were from stingers or AT troopers not the ther chopper, but still, i'm not exactly a great chopper pilot and if I can keep it in the air the whole round with a decent k/d ratio, and my gunner ends up with a GREAT k/d ratio, they cant be that f*cked up.

It just requires more tactical flying - hit & retreat. No big deal really.