Ricochets: Confirmed!

[WarGimp]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

They don't make a big "boom animation" in fact, the impact of the BH minigun bullets look about the same as any other bullet impact in the game.

What are your graphics setting at? On my comp, the impacts for the M134 are fairly un-impressive. On my buddy's much better rig, they are clearly explosive.

Something else that I forgot to mention is that the distance from the bullet impacts and the player that's sitting behind the minigun in the BH is much too far away to cause splash damage from explosions.

I thought you said you pointed the gun down as far is it could go? The splash damage from M134 rounds is 3 feet according to the code posted previously. Pointing the gun as low as it can go lines you up closer than 3 feet.

They are definitly ricochets in my opinion. Also, the few times I've tried this, I did NOT die from an explosion as I did not hear the annoying ear ringing effect. In fact, the first time I died I thought I got sniped out of the BH by a carrier camper. Only later did I realize upon testing that it was in fact ricochets from the gun.

What kind of angle of attack was involved? Again, I thought you said that you pointed the gun down in your test. Since max declination of the weapon does not give you a 90 degree angle to the ground, how could you possibly expect to be hit via a ricochet? If you've ever shot a round of pool, you should know enough about the physics of ricochets to dismiss this as being possible... unless the code is completly borked.

Edit: found this pic of an explosive round impact. Thought it would be amusing to some.

As you can see, there should be almost no splash involved. Explosive rounds are used to increase the amount of trama to unarmoured targets. They work like a shaped charge, blowing big holes through things... not around them.

[SK]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

Granted, they haven't modeled explosive rounds anywhere near correctly (in the real world, they generally DO NOT cause splash damage)

Errr ..how so? HE rounds generally do a lot of "splash damage" in the form of blast and fragmentation.

Explosive rounds are used to increase the amount of trama to unarmoured targets. They work like a shaped charge, blowing big holes through things... not around them.

HEAT (=shaped charge) is blowing small holes through thick things (e.g. armor).
HE(-FRAG) is either blowing big holes in less thick things (with time delay fuze) or sprays it´s surroundings with blast and fragmentation (impact fuze or variable time fuze).


@Robbeh:
I´m pretty sure this pic shows a RPG impact, the "bloom" around the impact point is a telltale sign for this. Do you have sources confirming it´s a .50 hit?

[bitvomit]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

What are your graphics setting at? On my comp, the impacts for the M134 are fairly un-impressive. On my buddy's much better rig, they are clearly explosive.

I thought you said you pointed the gun down as far is it could go? The splash damage from M134 rounds is 3 feet according to the code posted previously. Pointing the gun as low as it can go lines you up closer than 3 feet.

What kind of angle of attack was involved? Again, I thought you said that you pointed the gun down in your test. Since max declination of the weapon does not give you a 90 degree angle to the ground, how could you possibly expect to be hit via a ricochet? If you've ever shot a round of pool, you should know enough about the physics of ricochets to dismiss this as being possible... unless the code is completly borked.

My settings are mostly medium however I have special effects set to high which is the main setting that allows you to see nice looking explosions. Yes, I did point the gun down as far as it could go and judging by the distance from the bullet impacts and the player and also the size of the impacts: You cannot be hurt by splash damage from the apparent explosive effects of the BH gun. Neither does it give you the distinct ear ringing effect that accompanies all explosive deaths. Yes, I know that the direction the bullets are being fired in would not allow ricochets in real life, however this is DICE games we are talking about here. Since when was their code NOT borked? Another thing to consider is that although the BH miniguns are badass when it comes to mowing down infantry, you have to have dead on aim to hit someone with it. The splash damage that it does amounts to the size of a firecracker going off from all the times I've used it. This combined with the fact that this is a minigun -- which means the bullets are fired in a circular pattern and not with laser like accuracy -- gives the minigun a large area of possible damage from the bullets alone.

[MidnightOps]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

we need more proof than just telling us that.

[SK]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

which means the bullets are fired in a circular pattern and not with laser like accuracy -- gives the minigun a large area of possible damage from the bullets alone.

In BF2 the Minigun doesn´t fire 2000 or 4000 RPM like IRL though, my strong guess is that for exactly this reason it was given splash damage, to "simulate" the spread and high round output. A realistic ROF would put too much strain on computers and connections, as every bullet in BF2 is an actual object.

[Daz]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

No.

Even if it was true how would it be possible for the bullet to go down hit the ground then come back right at you when hitting an angled surface.

Yeah it doesnt seem very realistic but remember it was toned down from 1.03 and before that you didnt even need to hit the target dead on.

[bitvomit]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

we need more proof than just telling us that.

I gave you all the details you need to open up a server and experiement yourself.

[UnrealAlex]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

Bitvomit from all the things you just said Im wondering if you've even ever played Bf2.

I dont know if you're playing Battlefront 2 or something, but in BF2 you dont have to hit a person dead on to kill him with BH mini guns.

I just tried it and it is the splash damage killing you. Try pointing it somewhere far and then slowly move it closer youll see yourself losing health because youre in the splash damage radius

[BurnTheWeed]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

I thought some bullets ricochet off the metal dumpster or other metal building materials.

[Dlab37]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

first off the mans right (2nd one) and even if he wasnt there is no reason why you should be calling him an idiot becuase you were wrong, so i guess hes not the idiot.

[WarGimp]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

BV, sometimes I really gotta wonder about ya.
Some days yer on the ball, some days... well, I just have to wonder what you've been smoking.

We've presented you with all sorts of proof that yer out to lunch on this one, but you insist on not hearing it. Just for giggles, I've just come back from testing this myself and I can assure you that you're just wrong.

Sorry champ.
It happens.

[imported_Robbeh]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

@Robbeh:
I´m pretty sure this pic shows a RPG impact, the "bloom" around the impact point is a telltale sign for this. Do you have sources confirming it´s a .50 hit?

The only source i have is this... http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/jizzmonkey/ady
If you read at the bottom it says its a .50 impact. :)

[Keith Maniac]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

Umm, no [b]idiot[b]. When was the last time you saw BH minigun bullet impacts make explosions? It does not. You are confusing it with the Essex cannong. Stop pulling stuff out of your colon.

It is you who is pulling stuff out of colon with your ridiculous "ricochet" effects :laugh:

The minigun hits have a certain radius of damage against infantry to make them more deadlier, and it has nothing to do with ricochet since there are no bullets flying in BF2.

[IVfluids]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

The default ricochet comp on this game means you have to hit a very slight angle in order to get any ricochet effect and it pretty much has to hit an object (not terrain) to ricochet off of. You pretty much have to hit an object at about 5 degrees or less to get a ricochet, otherwise it just blows up.

If the BH actually has ricochet set in on the miniguns, the odds at default of you actually getting any use out of it are so small that it would not even be useful. If any of you have seen my tank vids, you would know that the default ricochet in this game means you have to hit an object (not terrain, but a model) at less than 5 degrees for it to happen.

It is the splash damage as someone else had stated that cooks people when you only within a couple feet of him when shooting.

If you truly wanted to test your theory, get several buddies on mashtuur city. Park a tank about 20 feet away and the long side of it within about 5 degrees of the barrel of the helis gun, then take a few humvees and park them about 20 feet away from the tank and have your buddies drive them back and forth. If there is ricochet, you will start damaging their humvees. Then record all that with fraps and host it up here, that simple

And lastly, but not least, quit trying to compare real life facts about weapons/vehicles/armies with the game, they have literally no relevance in this game with the exception that the models look similar to their real life counterparts, period.

[Talus]

Re: Ricochets: Confirmed!

Man, I added this guy to my ignore list LONG ago...reading some of your replies is making me glad I did