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Everytime I look at BH bullet impacts it looks like tiny explosions! And he's right, it is splash damage. Bullets don't normally richochet DIRECTLY back at the gun it was fired from.
Actually it is really not hard to hit someone directly with the minigun on the BH. There is a large circle of bullet spread which is easy to move over the enemy and hit.
I think wether you call it ricochet or splash is actually fairly subjective. Think about it.
In real life a ricochet is the bullet bouncing, splash is debris being displaced.
Neither of these things actually happen in BF2. What is termed as splash isnt actually bits of ground bouncing up nor would ricochet actually be the bullet bouncing.
They're just generalisations of reality.
Calculating ricochets is a bit more mathematically complex than simple damaging everything within a range of the impact. Then concidering with a blackhawk youre firing god knows how many rounds per second. The calculations must be intensive.
But thats not to say its impossible. Maybe its diong both. Someone find ini files that suggest both are possible.
Someone already posted the lines up from the .tweak file.
It is possible to do both, but what BV is thinking is ricochet, is splash damage.
Ricochets do happen in this game, but not off the terrain, it happens off of objects. An object is anything like building, tree, tank, carrier or sidewalk (to name several examples). The grass and roads in this game are not objects, the road is a painted surface of the terrain, just like grass. I seriously needed to get this part out for the rest to make sense. And that right there will tell you that BV shooting down at someone on the ground did not kill the person from ricochet, he killed them from splash damage. To get a ricochet at the default level in this game, you have to bee shooting at the surface of an object at approximately less than a five degree angle.
The BHawk that round that killed someone around a corner (that someone else mentioned) is also splash damage. If you shoot at the sidewalk and the bullet is close to the corner of the building, the splash damage will hit them.
And your right, people are still trying to mix reality info with game info, it does not work that way.
Originally posted by ||bfa||variable
The "ricochets" outlined by the "one-shot-kill" tank demonstrations aren't ricochets at all, but the result of the projectile's collision mesh coming into contact with multiple adjacent faces of the target's hitbox.
Most impacts only register with one face of the target's hitbox, but in nooks and crannies where sections of the hitbox meet, it creates a concave area where a projectile can actually strike more than one area with only one projectile, dealing damage twice.
Just an idea.
My second video proves that ricochet hits do damage by you being able to visibly see an intact shell leave the vehicle and the first video shows me putting my words to the test by putting my money where my mouth is when I explained thoroughly how it happened in a thread on this board.
The vehicle as a whole is put together as one object when it comes to the 'armor' in this game, not several individual parts. It can be made with seperate indestructible (or high armor) parts, but there is not a single case where I ran into that in anything I've looked for on the vehicles I was interested in find this out for (tanks, lavs, jets). You can check the objects file on that. So on the LAV for instance, it is not registering that I hit two seperate components with splash damage from one hit (the tire and the body), but it is registering a glancing hit off the tire and then a final blow to the body (two hits from one shell).
Otherwise, I would be able to shoot at the turret of the LAV and register three hits and that thing should be cooked. Because the gun, turret and body are three seperate components of the model. But it doesn't work that way, you will only get about 60-70% max out of that hit, because it is only detected as one hit. Now the US version, you could do a one shot at the turret because you have to shoot at the very beginning of the front body and then bounce it into the turret for a second hit.
The splash damage of the bullets (which are not "explosive" because the programmers decided not to put in the details, but in real life they are) kills them.
Otherwise, I would be able to shoot at the turret of the LAV and register three hits and that thing should be cooked. Because the gun, turret and body are three seperate components of the model. But it doesn't work that way, you will only get about 60-70% max out of that hit, because it is only detected as one hit. Now the US version, you could do a one shot at the turret because you have to shoot at the very beginning of the front body and then bounce it into the turret for a second hit.
Unless the shell is hitting a concave "joint" where two separate boxes from two objects meet - the turret and the body. Registering damage twice on two pieces of the aggregate model. In your LAV example, there's probably not a part of the facade where the shell can simultaneously hit two separate pieces.
Help me understand something else - when you're in the tank and you get hit in the sweet spot and experience the double damage, do you hear two hits and see two rapid reductions in your life? Or just one big BOOM and one big loss of life?
If it's unknown, I recommend tweaking the files to slow the projectile down and then firing at the sweet spot. That should help us see the interaction more clearly.
No, you don't hear it, it happens way too fast and it doesn't explode twice, just once (the first hit is a physical slam, the second is an explosion). Someone already posted screenshots of it from a slowed down video of the shell hitting twice anyways, in the same thread where I showed mine. You see the sparks and then later and a hair back you see the boom and the tank get toasted. Also note where he shoots at first, before the turret, which means the shell is bouncing off the main body and then into the turret afterwards.
I've already proven my point in a video and enough words, I'd rather leave it up to you to prove your theory in a video. Don't take this the wrong way, but when your trying to prove your theory vs someone else's, your the one that's supposed to provide the proof
I'll make this easy for you to test, I can guarantee you that you will not get the results you are stating will happen. Load up FRAPS, Start a Local Server and pick the 64 player Karkand map, spawn as MEC, get in a tank and park parallel to the BTR90, shoot at just the inside of the wheel well above the tire and see what happens. Compress the video using Win Movie Maker (or whatever), upload it to some space so that we can download it and all see what happened.
Now let's put what I say is happening in my first video up against this test, you can clearly see that I aimed for the tire so that it would bounce to the inside of the wheel well. Now, your saying that the explosion registered twice, that would be to the tire and the main body. Now, when you shot at just the inside of the wheel well right above the tire, this should have started the BTR90 on fire because you should be registering as two explosions on a completely different facet and in a concave area, but I already know the answer to this one.
How is this thread still alive? It's splash on the minigun right? Lets all say it together. S-P-L-A-S-H.
There is however ricochet on tank rounds.
Lets all say it together R-I-C-H-O- Oh nevermind.
That make no sense! If ricochet existed, why doesn't every round ricochet off of the tank? I've yet to see a sensible theory on how the ricochet works (just that it "does"), or a shred of code that qualifies the concept. I don't know about the game mechanics, but there is no other incidence of ricochet in this game, and it's really ridiculous to think that they JUST coded it in for the tank rounds.
You WILL have the annoying ear ringing + screen blurry effect if the blackhawk guns haven't killed you. Go behind a thin wall and have a friend shoot the other side of it, but tell him not to try to kill you.
It's splash damage, not ricochet. But since you're being a stubborn hardass about it, whatever.
first..the mini gun is just powerful...(it can shoot through lots of stuff and take out apcs easily..sortof) i tried wat u did and it also kills nearby teaammates
Then how do you explain the splash damage not damaging the blackhawk?
damage in the battlefield engine is based on "materials". every body part and collision model has a material ID. there is also material IDs for projectiles, and materials for explosions.
the material for the minigun bullet is of a type that causes damage to the blackhawk. the material of the minigun bullet "explosions" however does not.
Originally posted by SuperTyphoon
The splash damage of the bullets (which are not "explosive" because the programmers decided not to put in the details, but in real life they are) kills them.
the 7.62mm rounds that the minigun shoots are NOT explosive in real life. the real life version shoots 100 rounds a second though.
if the game had to keep up with hundreds of rounds being fired by the gun, it would create lag.
the programs of BF2 made the gun shoot alot slower, but they also made the rounds "explode" thereby simulating multiple impacts.
That make no sense! If ricochet existed, why doesn't every round ricochet off of the tank? I've yet to see a sensible theory on how the ricochet works (just that it "does"), or a shred of code that qualifies the concept. I don't know about the game mechanics, but there is no other incidence of ricochet in this game, and it's really ridiculous to think that they JUST coded it in for the tank rounds.
Prove this to yourself. get a friend, get a gun (any gun, really) and have your friend stand on a sidewalk. go prone in front of him, and start shooting the sidewalk. you need a really shallow angle, but you WILL get richochet. if happens with small arms rounds, it happens with tank rounds, it probably happens with BH rounds. It is absolutely not doing what the OP is attributing it to, but it IS there.
And actually look through the code too, before claiming you've never seen a shred of code qualifying it. If you were a modder, or had ever ACTUALLY messed with the projectiles, you'd know its there.
This is a lot like the bullet drop stuff. Its a subtle effect, so a lot of people dismiss it when people who know better bring it up. It ISNT really so hard for the computer to calculate, and isnt some amazingly difficult thing to code, like everyone seems to think.
man.. BV if stop being stubborn, seriously. if you really want to prove the ppl here go look in the bf2 code and tell us where it has an equation showing ricochets. the only richotes i've seen are on objects(tanks, when hit at a certain angle by other TANK rounds not bullets). it isn't posible with anything else, and what you're experiencing is splash damage as mention b4. the reason why you dont see that slowmo effect is because you're in a vehicle, and splash damage doesn't affect you in the vehicle. and also splash damage does not affect the vehicle's hp(unless if its arty/bomb). have you ever been in a tank and you had a slowmo effect? no. come on man see the truth.
Prove this to yourself. get a friend, get a gun (any gun, really) and have your friend stand on a sidewalk. go prone in front of him, and start shooting the sidewalk. you need a really shallow angle, but you WILL get richochet. if happens with small arms rounds, it happens with tank rounds, it probably happens with BH rounds. It is absolutely not doing what the OP is attributing it to, but it IS there.
And actually look through the code too, before claiming you've never seen a shred of code qualifying it. If you were a modder, or had ever ACTUALLY messed with the projectiles, you'd know its there.
This is a lot like the bullet drop stuff. Its a subtle effect, so a lot of people dismiss it when people who know better bring it up. It ISNT really so hard for the computer to calculate, and isnt some amazingly difficult thing to code, like everyone seems to think.
I'm NOT a coder. I'm looking for someone to post some code and explain it. Otherwise, anyone who claims to know code can simply claim that they saw it, and the rest of us wouldn't know any better.
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