Blackhawk vs Jets: Ramming Ok?

[BigBadBob]

you know what people have a problem with? The Hawk doesn't have a big opening in the back that you can shoot into and kill the people inside. It's on the side, where the guns are.

[Lith1um]

Is that why they also gave helicopters a lifetime supply of flares that they can drop, to guarantee any missiles that are or would have been fired at them miss, and then can drop again in about the same amount of time that it takes a jet to pass and turn around?

Seriously, ramming the BH is lame? *All* of the choppers are exceedingly difficult for a jet pilot to take out without going so slowly they not only become guaranteed kills for any enemy jet in the area (since the jet flares take forever to reload) and pretty easy for even helicopters to take out (yeah, THAT's realistic for you), but half the time you'll just fall out of the sky. Besides, when you fire your missiles even WITH a lock even a BH can avoid them (or they just decide to miss) and then you get to watch "Team Vehicle Damage!" "You have been punished for a Teamkill!" scroll through your screen a couple times.

Use the gun? Better hope that you are some knid of uberpilot then and can kill all the engies in the chopper before the pilot simply turns tail and lets 'em repair the bird while he runs for cover. Or waits for a friendly fighter to come blow the piss out of you because you're hanging right aruond the stall speed and can't possilbly avoid getting shot down, or some guy in a jeep machineguns *you.*

Sorry, if I'm the only friendly fighter up and there's a chopper whoring against my team, it gets one chance at 'stupid pilot syndrome' (3 missiles to see if the pilot knows where his flare button is) and if that doesn't down them/chase them off they better be as good at dodging jets as they are at dodging missiles, especialy if I'm already being chased around by another fighter (that whole "can't slow down to get a 'legitimate' kill bit").

If the BH pilots want to whine about it that's fine, they can start listening to the rest of us whine about how they barely need to be able to hover to convert a flag in a BH and how their squad is racking up points faster than our whole team can manage, and how their death-ray miniguns are just plain silly.

Attack choppers you can at least down in a few passes of gunfire (or gunfire followed by a mid-air collision when they dodge in the same direction you try to break for another pass) and are rarely worth colliding with intentionally (unless you're already done for), because unlike the transport choppers they *can't freaking repair themselves in mid-air* and thusly can't just ignore you (even though they can still drop flares fast enough that you have to slow way the heck down to even have a chance of hitting them instead of your teammates). So, constantly ramming attack chopers, that could get old (not much overall gain). Blackhawks? Full speed ahead...

Man you saved me alot of typing. Couldnt agree more.

[Chris369]

Im often ram into choppers. Sometimes on purpose and sometime because i cant pull up quick enough :p

[penguino]

i just ram em so the pilot gets tk's

[DrunkenAviator]

I've done a LOT of flying jets in game and agree that it IS possible to take down a BH with missiles/guns.. It's hard, but possible... I also think there's nothing wrong with ramming them as a flag defense... If it's that or losing a flag, and you can't shoot it down conventionally, go for it... If you're willing to sacrifice your life for the cause, too bad for the other guys... They took that risk when they got into the chopper...

Some people call it "cheap" But I don't see it as any cheaper than gunning down infantry from a tank, or from an attack helicopter... It's war... Every vehicle and kit has it's strengths and weaknesses.. Learning to take advantage of them is not "cheap" it's "smart"...

The only thing I would really like to see fixed is the chopper pilot getting teamkills... That's enough to get you banned from the server right there, and completely unfair when you got rammed...

[Grey Fox]

Basicly the only way you have a chance with missles is if you come up from behind, and even then it's hard, and if they drop flares it is impossible. And you don't have enough time to take them down with your guns. And by the time you can make a second run, they have repaired their heli and can drop flares again.
People simply always find the best and most effective tactic versus something, and in this case kamikazi is the best tactic, it's simple as that. Blame DIce and EA for making it this way.

[Arqentus]

Today, i've been manning the AA turret for a good 8 min strait. So, here i am, aiming & firing at Attack heli's & plains. The only way to have a 100% kill with rockets, is if they fly strait to you, or away from you. So that the rocket doesent have to swing a lot.

From all the rockets aimed at plains, only 1 was a kill, and that plain was already damaged. Most rockets from AA vs plains just can't keep up with the twist & turns a plain makes. While vs Heli's, it's almost like they have a magnetic shield around them, the way the rocket almost seems determent to NOT hitting the heli ( and thats not even counting for the flairs ).

While flying a plain, i noticed the same thing. AA is ****ing anoying ( that beep sound ), but 95% of me dying in a plain, is at the hands of a other plain ( mostly there guns that kill me ).

Same thing for flying a heli. Most AA kills are becouse i'm hovering, or facing a AA turret. While flying the chance of both rockets hitting you and killing you is extremly low. And even if one actually managed to hit you, by the time the AA reloads, you are half across the map. And those AA rockets from the vehicle's are even worse.

I've seen a pilot ranking up 136 points, with 0 deads. Only just at the last sec i was able to take him down with a AA site. While most people at the server are trying to take him down with rockets, to no effect.

To me, Stingers, be it AA site, Plain, or vehicle one's are underpowered. I can not see a plain survive a Stinger hit & being 100% operational in real life. And that counts for the BH also. It takes about 4 Stingers to take down a BH widout repair.

Maybe we are looking at it the wrong way, maybe the tracking of the rockets sucks, and the payload is to light ...

[DrunkenAviator]

Ok, first of all, to use the AA against planes you need to actually have some skill... Spamming rockets as soon as you get a lock is NOT going to get you any kills... The missiles have limited maneuverabiltiy, you have to work within their range...

The key is to wait until you can fire at them from BEHIND.. If you try a lateral shot, or a head-on shot, you will almost never succeed... Keep in mind AA is not supposed to automatically rape anyone in the air...

Also, a smart AA gunner will wait until their target has already dropped their flares before shooting a missile... Most pilots will pop flares as soon as they get the lock indication.. Wait an extra 3 seconds, reacquire, and shoot THEN...

Another thing you need to think about is the skill of your opponent... A GOOD pilot will be VERY hard to bring down with an AA missile.. (Or, for that matter, anything else)... That's what makes them GOOD... Sometimes locking them up with your AA will be enough to scare them away for a few minutes and give your team a break... (This is where you have to realize that what your goal should be is to help your team, not point-whore)...

AA is not the answer to everything... There is not one map where one side has an airplane and the other side does not... The best defense against a fighter is another fighter... Get a pilot for your side... If they tie up the other a/c in a dogfight, your ground troops and choppers will be safe for a while...

Whining that you can't get free auto-kills in AA is pointless.. Learn to use the weapons the way they're intended and you WILL be effective... You won't be an unstoppable rape machine... But, you will help your team.. And really, that's what the game is about...

[glasseye]

and? you managed to hit it w/ 2 stingers! oh dear, by the time its reloaded its
a: already back at full health.
b: out of range.
c: killed you.
d: none of the above because it can go in a straight line faster than the stingers can.

[Arqentus]

Ok, first of all, to use the AA against planes you need to actually have some skill... Spamming rockets as soon as you get a lock is NOT going to get you any kills...

Ok, lets see...

O look, i see a plain. Aim for it ... Wait 2 seconds to lock. Yes, we have a lock. At this point, the plain has already travelt half the map. Now, lets assume you have somebody like me. Somebody how has expierience in plains & heli's ( and not the "lets hit a wall type" ). So i know that most people dump there flare's very soon. Is it a noob thing to do. I dont think so.

Why? Becouse by the time the AA site has reaquired a lock, you lost: 1 second becouse of all the flare's redirecting your lock. Then you lose another 2 seconds for the lock. O wait, you have if your lucky, maybe 1 second to fire, most times the plain is already out of range, and you lost your lock.

Now, lets assume you do fire in time. Becouse of the rather large range, the rocket will:

a) miss
b) hit on of your own plains that is by now behind the target plain.

Even a noob pilot can shake rockets faster then you can say "please hit".

The only moment you can get a clean heat or tail shot, is when he's almost out of range ( tail ), or when he's getting ready to bomb your ass.

Like i said before, in all my hours of flying heli's, the least dangerous thing is a AA site. Plains are the big killers with there guns, not there rockets. Then it's the suicide types ( plains, heli's ). Then you have others ( guns of APC, Tank shell's, Heavy machine guns ). And last, are AA site's. You are better off getting in a APC, or a tank, then trying to kill with a AA site. The only times those AA's kill me, is like i said before, when i'm hovering or flying in a direct line to or away from them.

Hell, all it takes for a heli to shake incoming rockets when he's in a direct line with a AA site, is to dive left & right a few times. 75% of the time, the rockets both miss you. 20% one of them hits. In that case, who care's, sinds that AA gunner is as good as dead. And only a 5% chance of a kill against somebody who lightly does evasive actions. Even a slow BH can evade direct aimed rockets.

Put skilled Infantrie on the ground vs skilled Air attackers. And the air attackers will always be victourius. This has always been a problem with Battlefield, going back to BF42. And no offence, but those AA batteries make you PRIME target practice for any pilot. Everybody know where the AA's are, so it's not very hard to spot a missing ( filled ) one on your map, and kill it off.

What's missing for infantrie in my eye's, is a Anti Air class. I mean come on ... shoulder mounted Stinger exist from the 70's but people in BF2 need to rely on fixed position AA site's or Anti Tank rockets to take out flying objects ... arf... Lets start by equiping people with Shoulder Mounted Stingers, and the BH cap raping will slow down.

[Sgt.NightFire]

Sometimes black hawks are a real pain in the ass when they are hovering and shooting their miniguns all over the place,one time i saw black hawk hovering above a flag and almost capped it,i turned around my jet and shot 2 missiles and had to reload but had to ram him as a last result...I think it's stupid if they kick or ban you for ramming people,if you don't do it they are constantly complaining about raping bases with a constant carpet of bombs... :hmm:

[rapid-fire]

I ahve nothing against "ramming" a BH. It does seem like a waste of a jet however. Especially since it is so easy to take down a blackhawk in a jet. If i can not finsh them off with gun fire on my first pass i just loop back and launch 3-4 Air to Air missles at them upside down. Not enough time for their flares to reload from my first pass.

Was hard at first but some friends gave me some tips. Always remember that jet gun fire eats through BH armor.

[T1no]

the way i look at it.
anything legal lol

[NismO_UK]

If Blackwhore's are pi55ing you off, spawn as spec. ops, run up to the flag, get your C4 out and then jump and stick 2 C4's as high up the flagpole as you can. Go hide so you can see the flag, wait for the BH to hover over the flag to cap it and BOOM!! 6 kills if fully loaded and I don't care how may engineers they have. (Works great for getting your Explosive ordinance badge!)

[NismO_UK]

Ok, lets see...

O look, i see a plain. Aim for it ... Wait 2 seconds to lock. Yes, we have a lock. At this point, the plain has already travelt half the map. Now, lets assume you have somebody like me. Somebody how has expierience in plains & heli's ( and not the "lets hit a wall type" ). So i know that most people dump there flare's very soon. Is it a noob thing to do. I dont think so.

Why? Becouse by the time the AA site has reaquired a lock, you lost: 1 second becouse of all the flare's redirecting your lock. Then you lose another 2 seconds for the lock. O wait, you have if your lucky, maybe 1 second to fire, most times the plain is already out of range, and you lost your lock.

Now, lets assume you do fire in time. Becouse of the rather large range, the rocket will:

a) miss
b) hit on of your own plains that is by now behind the target plain.

Even a noob pilot can shake rockets faster then you can say "please hit".

The only moment you can get a clean heat or tail shot, is when he's almost out of range ( tail ), or when he's getting ready to bomb your ass.

Like i said before, in all my hours of flying heli's, the least dangerous thing is a AA site. Plains are the big killers with there guns, not there rockets. Then it's the suicide types ( plains, heli's ). Then you have others ( guns of APC, Tank shell's, Heavy machine guns ). And last, are AA site's. You are better off getting in a APC, or a tank, then trying to kill with a AA site. The only times those AA's kill me, is like i said before, when i'm hovering or flying in a direct line to or away from them.

Hell, all it takes for a heli to shake incoming rockets when he's in a direct line with a AA site, is to dive left & right a few times. 75% of the time, the rockets both miss you. 20% one of them hits. In that case, who care's, sinds that AA gunner is as good as dead. And only a 5% chance of a kill against somebody who lightly does evasive actions. Even a slow BH can evade direct aimed rockets.

Put skilled Infantrie on the ground vs skilled Air attackers. And the air attackers will always be victourius. This has always been a problem with Battlefield, going back to BF42. And no offence, but those AA batteries make you PRIME target practice for any pilot. Everybody know where the AA's are, so it's not very hard to spot a missing ( filled ) one on your map, and kill it off.

What's missing for infantrie in my eye's, is a Anti Air class. I mean come on ... shoulder mounted Stinger exist from the 70's but people in BF2 need to rely on fixed position AA site's or Anti Tank rockets to take out flying objects ... arf... Lets start by equiping people with Shoulder Mounted Stingers, and the BH cap raping will slow down.

oh btw.... it's PLANES not plains. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Scooby-Doofus