New Trailer ... Jets!

[*FMJ*Power]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

During the last few years , DICE has gone from "Widescreen support is an unfair advantage" to "We support multiple monitors", so I dont think they will restrict the FOV in any way. Balancing will have to be done in other ways.

......could you imagine 3D spotting showing up in the cockpit of a jet....game over man....game over.......stuff like that will have to be balanced out, I mean to honest as it is in BFBC2 probably half my vehicular on infantry kills all come from shooting at an orange triangle, I never actually saw the player.....and in a jet why not stay at altitude and just shoot at triangles?

[Vreki]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

and in a jet why not stay at altitude and just shoot at triangles?

Because the moment a Jet fails to stay low and fast, Two mobile AA, three static and six man-portable are all going to look at him and think "Ah, dinner!".
At least I hope thats how its going to be.

[Anarchy1]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

Because the moment a Jet fails to stay low and fast, Two mobile AA, three static and six man-portable are all going to look at him and think "Ah, dinner!".
At least I hope thats how its going to be.

Yep, jets are too slow and there are too many AA options for jets to be effective doing that.

[Minmaster]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

camera change should be disabled for jets. the whole camera switching tactic is unrealistic and OP especially with a crazy good pilot.

[-Shifty-]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

It's unrealistic, but so is eyes that can't look up, down, left, or right. I'd rather have camera view switching, but free-look while driving would be even better. Thing is, the later is difficult without a joystick with an 8-position hat button, so camera view switching is the next best thing, and it is a good compromise in my opinion.

How else are you going to track aircraft if there's no free-look while maneuvering? F12 was the only view you could use in BF2 for a dogfight.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

looks awfully "consoleish" or more "arcady" than BF2 if that makes sense.....and look at that massive FOV advantage when going to that chase view, I can see potential balance issues there......it just looks allot like tom clancy hawxs and that's not a good thing..........I'm still geeked reguardless, I'm sure a big huge desert map will let the air power shine, i get the feeling that caspian map used at the show and in the trailer is a pretty small or limited version of it.

It's the exact same angle, just with an additional 300 pixels on each side.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

out of body view is unfair for every vehicle; I agree you need a rear view mirror like camera angle, they could just show what is inmediatly behind your vehicle.

It's worse for tanks, they get almost 270° vision with out of body camera; something even real tanks DONT get (you need a guy dedicated to scane with a camera). doritos and the 2D spot they automatically get is not as bad as actually seeing the guys running with the C4 charges in their hands; it's borderline wallhack.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

Now what I am glad about, is seeing it has "real" aerodynamics; he crashes in the end because he flew too much perpendicular to the ground and slow, thus losing sustentation. THIS is good. No more barrelrools 5 meters above the ground.

[Vreki]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

out of body view is unfair for every vehicle; I agree you need a rear view mirror like camera angle, they could just show what is inmediatly behind your vehicle.

Third person view is needed for driving, especially with all the destruction and other obstacles Frostbite is capable of.
They could disable weapons in third person view, but the crosshair is already close to useless

[-Shifty-]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

I've said it once...I'll say it again.

Without a proper TrackIR system or a joystick hat or something to look around easily as a human can (humans have like 180° peripheral while we get like 65-80° in FPS games) we HAVE to have 3rd person view to see the things a human driving normally could (minus the vehicle's exterior obviously)

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

Oh man, there are going to be some major issues with air now. All aspects combined will make it into a pretty dreadful outcome.
First, we don't have fog of war anymore, so jets and choppers are always out in the open. Secondly, did you see how the missiles hit the chopper in the trailer? This means we're back to the uberhoming missile age, with nowhere to hide. Then, the massive FOV you get from external views. Now, all by themselves, these things won't matter, they would probably just add a new dimension to skill required to do good in air, and that is not a bad thing. However, with 3D spotting also thrown in, people WILL be forced to baserape like crazy just to not be on the receiving end of the surprise stick. I would settle for a cloud level at 400 metres, but 3D spotting across the map would make that pretty much irrelevant anyway.

And considering how DICE has been with suggestions from even those who have spent considerable time playing a certain aspect in BF2, there is shit-all use in giving them pointers.

3D spotting (internally and externally visible)
No fog of war
Massive external FOV
Uber air to air missiles (not worried about STA)
=
Dogfights and air aspect which is way too much reliant on chance

It seems like there won't be any noseview either. This cockpit wobbling looks incredibly irritating.

Yeah, it looks pretty, but there are a lot of if's and but's surrounding it.

[menace-uk-]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

Oh man, there are going to be some major issues with air now. All aspects combined will make it into a pretty dreadful outcome.
First, we don't have fog of war anymore, so jets and choppers are always out in the open. Secondly, did you see how the missiles hit the chopper in the trailer? This means we're back to the uberhoming missile age, with nowhere to hide. Then, the massive FOV you get from external views. Now, all by themselves, these things won't matter, they would probably just add a new dimension to skill required to do good in air, and that is not a bad thing. However, with 3D spotting also thrown in, people WILL be forced to baserape like crazy just to not be on the receiving end of the surprise stick. I would settle for a cloud level at 400 metres, but 3D spotting across the map would make that pretty much irrelevant anyway.

And considering how DICE has been with suggestions from even those who have spent considerable time playing a certain aspect in BF2, there is shit-all use in giving them pointers.

3D spotting (internally and externally visible)
No fog of war
Massive external FOV
Uber air to air missiles (not worried about STA)
=
Dogfights and air aspect which is way too much reliant on chance

It seems like there won't be any noseview either. This cockpit wobbling looks incredibly irritating.

Yeah, it looks pretty, but there are a lot of if's and but's surrounding it.

We live in a Uberhoming missile age.

Secondly, the 3D spotting won't last for the entire space of the map.

Thridly Large FOV is fine.

Fourthly, All these air vehicles have defensive weapons such as flairs.


I used to fly in BF 2 all the time and to be honest I think it looks just fine in BF 3 too.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

We live in a Uberhoming missile age.

Realism argument doesn't hold any water. It has to be balanced for gameplay, not for "real life top guns".

Secondly, the 3D spotting won't last for the entire space of the map.

It lasts far enough to become a serious issue.

Thridly Large FOV is fine.

How exactly is it fine if there is no chance for element of surprise, and if you can't disengage from a dogfight?

Fourthly, All these air vehicles have defensive weapons such as flairs.

Flares are a last ditch defensive weapon. They should not be your only defense.

I used to fly in BF 2 all the time and to be honest I think it looks just fine in BF 3 too.

Then you probably haven't flown enough, as all these issues will not only bring in too much chance into a fight, they will also make any jet imbalance hurt even more. And we all know DICE can't balance anything.

[menace-uk-]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

Realism argument doesn't hold any water. It has to be balanced for gameplay, not for "real life top guns".



It lasts far enough to become a serious issue.



How exactly is it fine if there is no chance for element of surprise, and if you can't disengage from a dogfight?



Flares are a last ditch defensive weapon. They should not be your only defense.



Then you probably haven't flown enough, as all these issues will not only bring in too much chance into a fight, they will also make any jet imbalance hurt even more. And we all know DICE can't balance anything.

LOLZ. I put in over 500hours in jets alone. Not flown enough.Joker.

Flares are a last ditch defensive weapon. And skilled pilots will use them as such. FOV is fine, element of surprise isn't a problem and can still be done even with the bigger FOV. Once the BETA hits you will see that your concerns are without merit. ( Assuming you can actually get in to a jet).

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

LOLZ. I put in over 500hours in jets alone. Not flown enough.Joker.

Flares are a last ditch defensive weapon. And skilled pilots will use them as such. FOV is fine, element of surprise isn't a problem and can still be done even with the bigger FOV. Once the BETA hits you will see that your concerns are without merit. ( Assuming you can actually get in to a jet).

I have over 1000 hours in a jet, most of it dogfighting. 90% of the time, when an opponents jet was spotted, I had it. Those remaining 10% were pilots equal or better than me. Once the jet was on the minimap, I knew where it was and where it was going. And once I had a visual of it, it was difficult to lose me. And by the end of BF2-s lifecyle, there were hundreds of very good pilots. 3D spotting, no fog of war and a huge FOV will make it ridiculously easy to never let the enemy jet out of your sight. At the same time, all of this combined, will make it ridiculously easy for someone to find you merely because you were airbourne. And again, element of surprise is gone because the view distance is unlimited and the FOV is large.

You seem to be under the impression that this is going to be BF2 style dogfighting without fog of war. I'm telling you, this is going to be an entirely new ballgame.