New Trailer ... Jets!

[menace-uk-]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

AFAIK the beta is open to all, preorders just get a 48 hours early access

This is correct.

Also the MOH tier 1 folks get the same 48hour early access.

[menace-uk-]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

yep, and they did the same thing for BFV and BF1942....... but they didn't try to make a buck off it or use it as a carrot to dangle, they valued all gamers opinions, not just the ones that bought directly though EA.....you only get beta access if you preorder directly from EA or bought medal of honor directly through EA...the beta might be open but access to it wont be nor was it ever for BFBC2, you only got into that through combat testing or if you forked over some cash for a file planet account or if you knew someone. It's just ludicrous to call something a beta but then only give access to people who already bought the game.............there were NEVER any balance issues addressed through the BFBC2 beta, that didn't come until the second patch after the game was out and player counts were significantly higher than the beta.

As for jet balance, i do have some faith, I'm sure there's gonna be some kind of spotting limitation in jets or spotted enemy view limitation so jets aren't hosing infantry from across the map.

I just Hope the Ground to Air isn't nerfed like they did in BF 2.

[McSteviee]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

I absolutely detested jets in BF2, mostly because they murdered the hell out of me and I never did master flying them. Once a pilot got good, the map was his playground (apart from the pilots on the opposing team) and absolutely nobody could match their KDR. I think it's about time things were evened up.

That said, I would never want jets removed from the game – they add so much depth, but I do think it's about time us little people on the ground had an opportunity to fight back against them without putting in many hours to learn to fly. I realise the arguments put forward are mostly relating to jet vs jet, but what about a bit of balance for the 62 other people in the round.

IMHO it's time for some change.

[-Shifty-]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

Wasn't much anybody could do against a good pilot back in BF2. AA range was too short.

[BlueAngel7]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

Trailer analysis:

Battlefield 3 - Caspian Border Analysis

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

dont kid yourselves for a second, the "BETA" will be nothing more than a glorified pay to play demo, just like it was for BFBC2, all the battlefield games had a demo a month before release day......now they are betas and one must fork over some cash if they wish to be involved. I really dont think too many balances will be addressed in the "BETA"

It seems that Power is the only one who doesn't have memory issues. Everyone else is running around like a blindfolded fanboy.

[PCKiller]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

beautiful game I hope to launch it is already optimized and with few bugs than bc2

[Lordsethonan]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

It seems that Power is the only one who doesn't have memory issues. Everyone else is running around like a blindfolded fanboy.

Except the beta is free and open to everybody just like the BC2 one was; but it does grant a 48 hr exclusive access to people who preordered through origin

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

So not only is it a pay to play demo (since when did it became reasonable to select betatesters for their wallets?), it is factually a glorified demo?

Beta has long since became another term for "demo".

[jimykx]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

th bc2 beta was closed, i believe they only opened it for a day? i dunno , i just know you had to have a beta key to enter, and they would give you that beta key if you had preordeded from certain sites

[Lordsethonan]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

th bc2 beta was closed, i believe they only opened it for a day? i dunno , i just know you had to have a beta key to enter, and they would give you that beta key if you had preordeded from certain sites

It was open during the last week, and then again, it wasn't bound to a preorder, just luck in getting a key ; didn't keep the kiddies and cynics from calling it a glorfied demo and the release game was better than the last beta update and we got a day one patch addressing most of the concerns; what was dumb tough was to limit the unlocks during the beta as it lead into the whole magnum ammo debacle and subsequent nerfing back and forth of various weapons.

And the problem is; with the current attitudes towards development, it doesn' tmatter: if you hold a closed limited event, whatever method you choose is bound to have people getting butthurt when they don't get chosen; I don't remember exactly, but I think BF2142 closed beta was half random chosen people and whoever preordered the game, I know I got it from preorder; then we had an open beta period (if I remember correctly, Closed beta was Verdun map in titan mode, open beta was a conquest map, and demo was Sidi power plant titan, no unlocks) and then a demo; and there were still people claiming BF was ruined and the game held a fame of being a glorfied reskin of BF2.

Fact is most people will treat betas as demos, so what? Both super casuals and hardcore players can't be pleased no matter what and will claim some other game is better and will cather to them, yet they still stick to the stupid dumb good for nothing one they are beta testing.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

It was open during the last week, and then again, it wasn't bound to a preorder, just luck in getting a key ; didn't keep the kiddies and cynics from calling it a glorfied demo and the release game was better than the last beta update and we got a day one patch addressing most of the concerns; what was dumb tough was to limit the unlocks during the beta as it lead into the whole magnum ammo debacle and subsequent nerfing back and forth of various weapons.

What? All it takes me is some searching and I'll find the same complaints from the beta, still in the full game. Some of the changes which have been implemented are downright pisspoor. They still have 3D spotting, don't they? Still? And how long did it take for them to get somesort of a commorose back in? And I won't even start with their sideprojects like P4F. If you really need to know how to betatest a game, please refer to MW/COD4. Even the potentially gamebreaking weapons and perks were balanced out so that they wouldn't need patching in the future.

DICE has a lot to prove. And this isn't me being a cynic. Although a quote pops up my mind.

“The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it.”

I'm basing my "prejudice" on 6 years of experience with BF and DICE. It's not that the community can't adapt. DICE just can't get things to work, sometimes not the first time, oftentimes never at all.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

So not only is it a pay to play demo (since when did it became reasonable to select betatesters for their wallets?), it is factually a glorified demo?

Beta has long since became another term for "demo".

what method would you propose? Conan MMO had a directX screening and still a lot of people with fake Dx reports got in; completely random leaves people butthurt all over and in fact the only method to truly guarantee an unbiased testing is to hire from professional beta testers.

My only true complaint against the current DICE method is that it's a too short time to get things tested. I did file my reports during the alha, yet I dont know how they could fix the Quake rocket jump in any FPS game that features them. You can still Quake rocket kill in BF3, should we get the launchers nerfed vs infantry? how? Make it impossible to fire while jumping again? It's not a problem with machine guns anyways, sway and recoil take care of jumpers.

since beta will be open what do you say we go at it plane vs engie? I should have enough time in the extra 48 hours I get to unlock my manpads so you can join in later and work on your jet unlocks, and test the hell out of balnce between those two; and jet vs everything else.
Armor vs infantry is already balanced; it requires superb driving skills and minor engie support, but armor dominates infantry in the way it should: non C4 carrying support and engies make short work of armor, there is already room for tactics that involve inmobilizing a vehicle and force pilots to jump out to steal it.

We still don't know exactly what stealth does for air assets, there might be more than one type of flare, we have yet to see how choosing between bombs and air to air works; I am in fact prepared to say that in the very end, on PC, BC2 air assets needed more armor or damage reduced on the AA cannons, specially the Us one as it is too easy to lead properly. In the suicide booth it's now easier to be sniped or knifed than taken out by the chopper- yet I have seen it done by above average crews - and I think this balance philosophy should be retained.

(and it's too much damage from stationary AA cos two bursts from the russian cannon or 3 seconds of sustained fire from the VAD will damage a chopper, the next burst or second of sustained fire will destroy a chopper; it's too fast -the chopper needs 2 full well placed volleys of missiles, a lucky tracer plant, or one full missile burst plus two bursts from the gunner to kill the suicide booth operator; takes far longer than the AA gun to down the whole chopper)

[CptainCrunch]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

What? All it takes me is some searching and I'll find the same complaints from the beta, still in the full game. Some of the changes which have been implemented are downright pisspoor. They still have 3D spotting, don't they? Still? And how long did it take for them to get somesort of a commorose back in? And I won't even start with their sideprojects like P4F. If you really need to know how to betatest a game, please refer to MW/COD4. Even the potentially gamebreaking weapons and perks were balanced out so that they wouldn't need patching in the future.

DICE has a lot to prove. And this isn't me being a cynic. Although a quote pops up my mind.

“The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it.”

I'm basing my "prejudice" on 6 years of experience with BF and DICE. It's not that the community can't adapt. DICE just can't get things to work, sometimes not the first time, oftentimes never at all.

What? A lot of the patches did fix a lot of issues. There are still issues, just like the ones in BF2 are still there after 6 years. Just like the pisspoor nerfing of some of the weapons, C4, and the J10.

You are right about the demo/beta comment though. At least DICE does something whereas CoD has gone to no longer doing anything other than releasing it. Though the weak excuse it may be.

And Power, for some reason, thinks you have to buy something to get into the beta and is wrong. In fact, he just seems upset about that fact more than anything else. The BF3 alpha has already showed adjustments and balancing because of it.

And yeah, BC2 still has 3d spotting. Good thing otherwise there would be nothing at all. They added the commo rose in BF3 AFTER listening to people from the alpha.

I think you are very observent on BF3, its a shame I am too much of a fanboy to communicate reliably on BF2.

Crunch

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: New Trailer ... Jets!

what method would you propose? Conan MMO had a directX screening and still a lot of people with fake Dx reports got in; completely random leaves people butthurt all over and in fact the only method to truly guarantee an unbiased testing is to hire from professional beta testers.

Methods that I propose? Apply common sense in reviewing beta impressions and reports. When I first started taking part in public betas, ever since then (back when BF2142 was in betastage), the only actual thing a betatest did, was to fix the biggest bugs. Balance issues? Gameplay issues? Gameplay elements which were misdesigned? They all stayed in. The whole community is against 3D spotting, because it leads to shooting targets you can't see. What does DICE do? Either ignore it for more than a year, or deliver a slightly altered version of 3D spotting where you have to see the target. I assume you can see why this is a halfassed solution. It's difficult to imagine why betatests are done. And it's even difficult to imagine why do seasoned gamers still fall for the whole "we take our community seriously" play.

My only true complaint against the current DICE method is that it's a too short time to get things tested. I did file my reports during the alha, yet I dont know how they could fix the Quake rocket jump in any FPS game that features them. You can still Quake rocket kill in BF3, should we get the launchers nerfed vs infantry? how? Make it impossible to fire while jumping again? It's not a problem with machine guns anyways, sway and recoil take care of jumpers.

It doesn't matter if it's short or not. They have shown to be incapable or unwilling to apply common sense and critical thinking, and will only budge when the community's complaints are overwhelming.

since beta will be open what do you say we go at it plane vs engie? I should have enough time in the extra 48 hours I get to unlock my manpads so you can join in later and work on your jet unlocks, and test the hell out of balnce between those two; and jet vs everything else.
Armor vs infantry is already balanced; it requires superb driving skills and minor engie support, but armor dominates infantry in the way it should: non C4 carrying support and engies make short work of armor, there is already room for tactics that involve inmobilizing a vehicle and force pilots to jump out to steal it.

Sure. But by the end of the day, what will this accomplish? BF2 players (myself included) have either fixed issues DICE couldn't, in mods, or gave actual suggestions, based on testing and working with the code, to improve the balance model in air vs ground, and what happened? Nothing. We can do the whole engineer vs jet dance all day long, and all it will accomplish is playing through a screnario which is unlikely to happen in the public games.

I have no idea why or how is it possible that DICE can't do it. They seem to be operating under assumption that everyone playing BF3 will forever be new guys with 10 hours under their belt. Infinity Ward, back when they were actually solid developers, knew that by adding potentially prone to abuse items and elements to the game, they had to balance them not by watching average pub players play. It was fairly obvious they knew how one could abuse such items to an absolute maximum and what we got was one of the most balanced games out of the box. Not through 6 years of patching.