What is everyones opinion on...

[Infernalis]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

In BF2142 tanks had the shield thing and zoom but no smoke and no coaxial. Tanks are far less uselful in urban combat, well that's the same in real life, urban combat is infantry speciality and at least with destruction you have the option of pounding a building from afar, not in 1942/2142. Also in BF1942 you were in burning state if you were hit from behind (~10hp), you could still repair your tank unless you were caught in bad position or without support.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

And in BF1942 Bazooka/Panzerschreck weren't guidable, they were slow, and had a noticeable drop due to gravity.

But again, if you want tanks to be used more as spawnkilling mobile artillery platforms that's fair enough and I'd certainly use them as such. Just don't complain when people are shelling the base from far far away and reducing the spawn zone and all its buildings into a gigantic pile of rock and rebar.

[Vreki]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

Thats what they do in BC2, but the AT is also long range so it evens out.

[Infernalis]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

The missile were guidable in BF2142, the Pilum wasn't but the projectile did leave a vapor trail, yet it was one hit kill in the back. In PoE2 tanks were also OHK in the back, in PR too, I don't remember in DC. It's your fault if you're hit in the back and urban combat is obviously not in vehicle favor. You talk about spawnkilling mobile artilley platform but it was worse in BF2, I still have a screen with 50 frags one death in Strike at Karkand. The only way I could accept a powerful tank eating all infantry is if a tank was costing more than one ticket or had a huge spawntime.

[jake_]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

Thats what they do in BC2, but the AT is also long range so it evens out.

This. I don't care so much about the absolute realism of a game as long as things are evenly balanced, which I think they are for the most part. Tanks are extremely powerful, but there's a lot of stuff that can take them down, from a long distance.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

You talk about spawnkilling mobile artilley platform but it was worse in BF2, I still have a screen with 50 frags one death in Strike at Karkand. The only way I could accept a powerful tank eating all infantry is if a tank was costing more than one ticket or had a huge spawntime.

I'm not surprised, though talking about Karkand as though it represented Battlefield as a whole is a fallacy. The reason you went 50/1 on Karkand in a tank was because the MEC team (I'm assuming you were USMC) was out to lunch, nobody would spawn at factory and take the tank or APCs there to confront you, and none of the sheeple that spawned at the hotel went AT to try to do anything about you because they were to busy spamming revives and ammo in nade alley. This is why IO was made, because people on Karkand were too obsessed with spamming, KDR, and SPM to actually spawn as something other than medic, sniper, or support to take out the tank that's raping their team. Two people go AT and even have a semblance of teamwork trying to take you out and you don't go 50/1, I guarantee.

Either that or you were playing on such a stacked team that the other team was full of recruits and your team was all generals. In either case, not indicative of BF as a whole. I always dreaded back in the day when someone would petition the developers for a change or nerf or balance or tweak by starting off their post with, 'So I was playing Karkand...'

TBH, Karkand can go **** itself. It truly has always been the sweaty armpit of BF2 and the changes to the game that were made due to the Karkand whiners wasted time that could have been better spent balancing aircraft and other aspects of the game.

(BTW Infernalis I'm not referring to you when I say this, I'm referring to the general Karkand population)

[Infernalis]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

No I was in the MEC tank and both the APC and USMC tank nearly killed me more than one time with missiles flying everywhere, but with smoke to retreat (from enemies and away from teammates stealing too) and coaxial to fend off any AT guys I managed to survive in situations where I would be dead in BF1942/2142. In BF2 you weren't even rewarded properly in term of points (I know I spend most of my time with the AT class) if you managed to take down a tank.

Speaking of BF2142, it's a balanced version of BF2, that's why you die in one hit in the back. Urban combat is the bane of vehicle and tank shouldn't easily survive in this kind of environment.

[jake_]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

Same goes for BC2, if you're close enough. One hit kill in the back.

Or at least I think so... I realize it's only a 2x multiplier, but I do recall one hit killing a tank from behind at nearly point blank range before, one that had just spawned.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

Wow, that's actually pretty sad then. The USMC has no excuse for not being able to take out an enemy tank, especially considering how well-protected their spawns are and how they have the higher ground to start off. Was this all in the beginning during the cluster**** at the Hotel flag or was this with you driving everywhere around the map? Either way, that speaks a lot to the incompetence of the USMC team (not saying you're not a good tanker or anything, but with even the slightest bit of coordination by the enemy you don't go 50/1 in a tank).

As for 2142, also remember that tanks and their shields can get disabled by APCs and anything else that EMPs. Someone good with an APC mortar can completely lock down a Nekomata tank by simply circling it and EMPing it. APCs are faster than tanks (although a crabbing Neko comes close), can freeze one indefinitely due to how fast the EMP fire recharges, and has the best anti-infantry capability of any vehicle in the game between the main gun, the gunner ports, and the mortar. An APC can easily EMP a tank, speed past it, have the engineer pop out, and AV missile the back while the tank sits there like a turtle on its back. BF2142 was more balanced overall than BF2, but far from perfect.

[Spik3d]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

In BF2 once you had your jet you had to think about a place to drop your bombs that would yield the best amount of kills because reloading them wasnt easy. Same with the rockets, you had to think about firing them because you only had a limited amount. Giving a vehicle unlimited ammo just gives the player a sense of worthlessness to whatever armory of weapons they are carrying.

Or, if you were good, you'd be able to only resupply one bomb, drop it, then go get two bombs. If you dropped both bombs before rearming, you'd always drop one at a time.

If the infinite ammo was done the way I am saying, jets and copters would be the same as in BF2 except without having to go back to the airport. Jets would have to wait say maybe 20-30 seconds for bombs to reload which is close to the time it takes already in BF2 to do a fly-by of the runway after dropping your bombs.

I flew all the time in BF2 and that sounds like a terrible idea, in several ways. What's the point in even making that ammo that way if it's the same amount of time required to rearm yourself anyway? As I remember, not that many people were even good with jets in BF2, so add that, then add the people which infinite ammo interests them then you have a total mess of a bunch of rookies trying to fly.

Also, say you're playing Dragon Valley or Wake, and USMC caps all the flags, but there's one guy in a J10. With BF2, everyone knows he only has two bombs, six missiles and whatever MG ammo max. With that, he could draw the rest of the round out if your pilots aren't good enough to take him down.

[Vreki]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

If I recall correctly, the APC EMP had a rather steep ballistic angle to its shots, so that trick was only possible if the Tank was stupid enough to close with the APC. So again, it evens out.
BF2142 Tanks were masters of long range sniping, but required intelligent positioning to avoid that kind of situations.

The Pilum was even more nefarious, since it is unguided, and thus give no radar lock warning. I really loved that gun

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

But it had shields too and you couldn't outrun one. It would take at least three shots with a tank to kill an APC at full health, and that's assuming you hit the 'weak' parts of it and you didn't miss, otherwise you're looking at another shield recharge. So yes, you couldn't use the EMP lob from a long ways off, but if you're good enough you could still get decent range on it and assuming you were good at moving about the terrain it wasn't hard to close in on the tank. Once you're close to the tank it's gg.

And of course, in Titan mode it was even worse because there really wasn't a base of fire or a front because dropships were flying all over the place and getting behind a tank in Titan mode was a cinch. At least in Conquest you could use the tanks to establish a front.

[Infernalis]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...


In our team only 3 players have a positive K/D including me but it's not glorious on the other side. The hotel flag was capped back and forth but the battle stayed in the main three alleys.

But well it's not like it's a gamebreaking point, I can accept tanks dying in two hits in the back.

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

i'm talking about BC2 and its tanks w/ unlimited ammo, not BF2.
BF2 tanks felt like they were made of paper. they are much more formidable in BC2.

I'm talking about BF3 which is a sequel to BF2. I don't really care about BC2. I doubt tanks will be anymore than the bottom of the food chain again.

Why is it insane? Did forget you also have to land to repair attack copters in BC2 which should be required in BF3. Seriously, though, doing a fly-by to resupply at the airport and repair? Tell me how that isn't more insane?

If a jet has to wait 30 seconds for bombs or cannon ammo to be resupplied while flying around, that jet is out of combat. The pilot can only fly around and drop flares if under attack. If the time to resupply needs to be extended for balance then DICE would do it.

Look at the Attack copter in BC2. Missiles take time to reload/resupply. The gunner cannon takes time to reload/resupply. While it may not be more than a few seconds, that is still time for someone to shoot it out of the sky. That time would be extended on jets. It would be the same thing as BC2, you don't have to go to the helipad to reload.

Also something I didn't even think of until now. Air collisions would be reduced at the airport since jets and copters wouldn't by resupplying there anymore. It happens very often in BF2.

Sounds like a great opportunity to blast infantry with cannons. In no way are you taking the jet out of the game just because he doesn't have bombs..
In BF2 jets could kill a tank in two passes with no bombs. Jets will never have infinite ammo.

In our team only 3 players have a positive K/D including me but it's not glorious on the other side. The hotel flag was capped back and forth but the battle stayed in the main three alleys.

But well it's not like it's a gamebreaking point, I can accept tanks dying in two hits in the back.

All I see here is a team of retards. In no way does this show that a tank is too powerful. Tanks are extremely easy to kill in BF2 and anytime you play in a server with at least 1 squad working together that scoreboard will look much different. 1 or 2 people with brains would have changed your score completely.

"managed to take down a tank" really? Managed?

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: What is everyones opinion on...

In our team only 3 players have a positive K/D including me but it's not glorious on the other side. The hotel flag was capped back and forth but the battle stayed in the main three alleys.

But well it's not like it's a gamebreaking point, I can accept tanks dying in two hits in the back.

Yeah, sounds like the USMC didn't have its **** together and you were clearly the player with the most brains on either team so that does have a lot to do with it. I wonder what nick1999 was doing the whole time, though...