What is everyones opinion on...

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  • ThIrD-EyE
    Member
    • May 2006
    • 283

    #76
    Re: What is everyones opinion on...

    Originally posted by Spik3d
    I flew all the time in BF2 and that sounds like a terrible idea, in several ways. What's the point in even making that ammo that way if it's the same amount of time required to rearm yourself anyway? As I remember, not that many people were even good with jets in BF2, so add that, then add the people which infinite ammo interests them then you have a total mess of a bunch of rookies trying to fly.

    Also, say you're playing Dragon Valley or Wake, and USMC caps all the flags, but there's one guy in a J10. With BF2, everyone knows he only has two bombs, six missiles and whatever MG ammo max. With that, he could draw the rest of the round out if your pilots aren't good enough to take him down.

    The only things that would be changed are not having to go back to the airport to rearm and having to land to repair instead of doing a fly-by of the runway and have a high chance of hitting other pilots. Noobs are the reason I'm proposing infinite ammo in the first place. To try to avoid the problems in BF2. I stopped counting the amount of times I have been rammed by team mates in a jet going the wrong way on the runway or going back to rearm and repair.

    I see only one problem with infinite ammo on jets, which is if your team is too stupid to shoot it down. I mean come on! Potentially 32 people can't shoot down 1 jet? I'm calling BS on that. If your team has taken all flags and the enemy has no uncap, that jet cannot draw out the battle since they will lose from ticket bleed faster than the jet can kill. When it gets to that point the other team has pretty much lost anyway. The chance that the last person on a team that bailed from the last jet to cap a flag is very low.

    It's just an opinion anyway. Just like people have their opinion on infinite sprinting. It's not like it's set in stone and will actually be in the game since at this point we still don't have all the facts.

    Personally I would prefer not to have jets in the game. DICE have to show us they can properly balance jets, because in BF2 they are over powered with even a decent pilot. Granted, this mostly due to the arrogance of DICE not wanting to fix the problem. They said it was too hard... DICE ****ed up the collision mesh on the M1A2 Abrams in 1.12 or something, I forgot what patch, but it took them up until 5 patches later to actually fix the problem. During the time between the patches the M1A2 was almost useless for being mobile since every little bump would damage it 1-2 bars.

    BF2 was a great game at one point. I used to play it for hours, but the changes made and bugs introduced with every patch turned me away from the game almost completely. When cod4 was released I almost completely abandoned BF2 because it just wasn't fun anymore and was being patched to death (1.5 helped fix things but jets are still OP). Cod waw is the last cod game I have bought because BFBC2 has been great so far despite the usual DICE bug ********.

    Comment

    • LunaTiK TunaLiK
      Member
      • Jun 2007
      • 923

      #77
      Re: What is everyones opinion on...

      Originally posted by ThIrD-EyE
      I stopped counting the amount of times I have been rammed by team mates in a jet going the wrong way on the runway or going back to rearm and repair.
      Use your map. You really have trouble avoiding other player's vehicles so much it becomes a problem?

      I see only one problem with infinite ammo on jets, which is if your team is too stupid to shoot it down. I mean come on! Potentially 32 people can't shoot down 1 jet? I'm calling BS on that. If your team has taken all flags and the enemy has no uncap, that jet cannot draw out the battle since they will lose from ticket bleed faster than the jet can kill. When it gets to that point the other team has pretty much lost anyway. The chance that the last person on a team that bailed from the last jet to cap a flag is very low.
      Are we talking about the same Battlefield 2? Why does it have to be 1 jet? What about 2, 3 or 4 jets flying around with infinite ammo only having to almost stratosphere to wait for ammo to reload and in the mean time mowing down infy with cannons?

      It's not an opinion at all. You have a perception problem. If two jets that have to reload in the main get into a dog fight when the the jet following runs out of missiles he has to resort to guns or pull off. With your idea he can just keep following until missiles rearm.

      Jet A reloads at his main Jet B reloads after 30 seconds.

      Jet A is at a considerable disadvantage because other pilots can make pretty good guesses on when he needs to reload and catch him at his main.

      Jet B can just approach the stratosphere while he reloads where is he pretty safe.

      Jet A drops his bombs on a tank and must fly all the way back to his main and then all the way back to where he wants to drop new bombs.

      Jet B drops bombs on tank then climbs to safe height sets up another bombing run and right before he needs to drop his bombs they rearm.

      I could go on and on with scenarios where Jet B is OP.

      This video is two rounds with side switching so it can be a little difficult to follow. Basically what you have here is 1 Jet doing loops over the main and if he had infinite ammo you don't think that would make this worse? The video doesn't show how many loops this guy did. For most of the match The mec jet was just doing loops over the US main base and they couldn't do anything about it until he went and rearmed.



      Who's going to land a jet to repair it. If they made you land jets to repair in BF2 and that's all they changed pilots would become kamikaze's and just ram the jet into something and let it respawn.

      Comment

      • ThIrD-EyE
        Member
        • May 2006
        • 283

        #78
        Re: What is everyones opinion on...

        Originally posted by LunaTiK TunaLiK
        Use your map. You really have trouble avoiding other player's vehicles so much it becomes a problem?


        Are we talking about the same Battlefield 2? Why does it have to be 1 jet? What about 2, 3 or 4 jets flying around with infinite ammo only having to almost stratosphere to wait for ammo to reload and in the mean time mowing down infy with cannons?

        It's not an opinion at all. You have a perception problem. If two jets that have to reload in the main get into a dog fight when the the jet following runs out of missiles he has to resort to guns or pull off. With your idea he can just keep following until missiles rearm.

        Jet A reloads at his main Jet B reloads after 30 seconds.

        Jet A is at a considerable disadvantage because other pilots can make pretty good guesses on when he needs to reload and catch him at his main.

        Jet B can just approach the stratosphere while he reloads where is he pretty safe.

        Jet A drops his bombs on a tank and must fly all the way back to his main and then all the way back to where he wants to drop new bombs.

        Jet B drops bombs on tank then climbs to safe height sets up another bombing run and right before he needs to drop his bombs they rearm.

        I could go on and on with scenarios where Jet B is OP.

        This video is two rounds with side switching so it can be a little difficult to follow. Basically what you have here is 1 Jet doing loops over the main and if he had infinite ammo you don't think that would make this worse? The video doesn't show how many loops this guy did. For most of the match The mec jet was just doing loops over the US main base and they couldn't do anything about it until he went and rearmed.



        Who's going to land a jet to repair it. If they made you land jets to repair in BF2 and that's all they changed pilots would become kamikaze's and just ram the jet into something and let it respawn.
        See, this is what I was waiting for. A counter argument that is thought out and shows me what I didn't think of and not someone saying your insane blah blah blah flame! I didn't think of some situations because I haven't played BF2 in a very long time and I am only going by memory and I agree now infinite ammo for jets is not a good idea.

        Although you did flame me some... I am far from the best jet pilot and would consider myself decent enough to hit targets and evade other decent pilots. I always kept and eye on the mini map watching for team mates. I didn't have the problem with rearming and repairing and would sometimes have to circle the runway until people got out of the way. It's the people not paying attention that are the problem.

        Comment

        • Spik3d
          Member
          • Feb 2006
          • 4890

          #79
          Re: What is everyones opinion on...

          Originally posted by ThIrD-EyE
          The only things that would be changed are not having to go back to the airport to rearm and having to land to repair instead of doing a fly-by of the runway and have a high chance of hitting other pilots. Noobs are the reason I'm proposing infinite ammo in the first place. To try to avoid the problems in BF2. I stopped counting the amount of times I have been rammed by team mates in a jet going the wrong way on the runway or going back to rearm and repair.
          You're the noob if your ramming into teammates flying over the runway or landing to repair. You should always be tracking your friendly jet's movements (and whenever he is spamming enemy jet spotted, you go help).

          The world doesn't revolve around you, buddy boy. Both pilots are equally responsible for the crash assuming one didn't go out of their way to cause it.

          Originally posted by ThIrD-EyE
          I see only one problem with infinite ammo on jets, which is if your team is too stupid to shoot it down. I mean come on! Potentially 32 people can't shoot down 1 jet? I'm calling BS on that. If your team has taken all flags and the enemy has no uncap, that jet cannot draw out the battle since they will lose from ticket bleed faster than the jet can kill. When it gets to that point the other team has pretty much lost anyway. The chance that the last person on a team that bailed from the last jet to cap a flag is very low.
          You're assuming the pilot in the J10 is a bad pilot. A good pilot in a J10 never gets shot down due to the hitboxes.

          Comment

          • Stryker

            #80
            Re: What is everyones opinion on...

            Im fine with infinite sprint if the maps are big, because if the Maps are the size of BC2 than you can run across the map in 1 minute and it ruins gameplay and makes it feel like COD.

            Comment

            • Vreki
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2007
              • 4226

              #81
              Re: What is everyones opinion on...

              Also, the 32 people might have other objectives than shooting down one jet. Like handling the 31 none-jet people also trying to kill them.

              One of the problems with these Jet discussions is that there is a loud minority that thinks BF is a flight simulator, instead of a combined arms game. Sure 32 players can take down almost anything, but they are not really playing the game to fight desparately against one super-toy.

              Comment

              • Vreki
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2007
                • 4226

                #82
                Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                Here is an analogy: The COD4 SP Javelin. Target lock, one hit kills, top down attack and potential targets shown on the HUD.
                Now why cant my BF Engineer have that? :p

                Comment

                • Kylee!
                  Member
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 4161

                  #83
                  Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                  Well for one thing it was only in SP in CoD4.

                  Comment

                  • Vreki
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2007
                    • 4226

                    #84
                    Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                    Originally posted by Kylee!
                    Well for one thing it was only in SP in CoD4.
                    You are missing the point. The Javelins capabilities are strikingly similar to that of a Jet, but most would find it ridiculously overpowered in BF.

                    Comment

                    • Kylee!
                      Member
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 4161

                      #85
                      Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                      Originally posted by Vreki
                      You are missing the point. The Javelins capabilities are strikingly similar to that of a Jet, but most would find it ridiculously overpowered in BF.
                      Aha! I see what you did there!

                      Comment

                      • Spik3d
                        Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 4890

                        #86
                        Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                        Originally posted by Vreki
                        You are missing the point. The Javelins capabilities are strikingly similar to that of a Jet, but most would find it ridiculously overpowered in BF.
                        But people also wouldn't target people carrying a javelin as much as people target jets.

                        If everyone and their grandmother could spawn with a javelin, who would want to get in a tank? In BF2, jets were usually limited to two per team max.

                        Comment

                        • LunaTiK TunaLiK
                          Member
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 923

                          #87
                          Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                          I've played with javelins in bf2 and It's retarded. There should never be anything in bf2 that powerful that requires absolutely no skill to use.

                          This was just 1 javelin that spawned somewhere on the map. A mentally retarded chimpanzee could go 25-0 with it.

                          Comment

                          • Vreki
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 4226

                            #88
                            Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                            Originally posted by Spik3d
                            But people also wouldn't target people carrying a javelin as much as people target jets.

                            If everyone and their grandmother could spawn with a javelin, who would want to get in a tank? In BF2, jets were usually limited to two per team max.
                            Two per team, which could get to anywhere on the map in 5 seconds. So limit Javelins to two per team and give them Jetboots so they can jump to anywhere on the map. Are we balanced now?

                            Originally posted by LunaTiK TunaLiK
                            I've played with javelins in bf2 and It's retarded. There should never be anything in bf2 that powerful that requires absolutely no skill to use.

                            This was just 1 javelin that spawned somewhere on the map. A mentally retarded chimpanzee could go 25-0 with it.
                            Surely 32 players can manage to kill one javelin user

                            Hmm, I sense that Chris_Redfield is preparing a wall of text, better take cover.

                            Comment

                            • Stev0esque
                              5t3v0 (I miss leetspeech)
                              • Feb 2008
                              • 6786

                              #89
                              Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                              I dunno, maybe just make javelins can only lock on to stuff and not dumbfire, and maybe you cannot switch weapons while reloading which is done slowly?

                              Comment

                              • Vreki
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 4226

                                #90
                                Re: What is everyones opinion on...

                                Or just avoid overpowered weapons altogether.
                                I got the impression that demize was aware of the potential issues with Jets, so it will be interesting to see how they balance things.

                                Comment

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