Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

[Minmaster]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

the anti-realism bash brothers are reunited again.:laugh:

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Gentlemen, I saw so much sucking up to the devs at IW forums that this does not surprise me the least. History also shows us that even the best constructed posts with actual fixes for BF2 have been met with silence. I can certainly understand when people want to shrug of *all* criticism for some provocative reason just to silence up the most vocal yet most ignorant voices. The problem however is that the game actually is marketed as a successor to the last proper PC BF game, not as a BC1 console versions big brother. At least to the PC crowd. And when people have waited 5 years (or 3) years for a sequel, then one should also add in the frustration they went through whole playing the game they sunk hundreds of hours into.

Multiplatform almost always spells bad news for one platform. Lack of features in BC2 compared to what is expected from a Battlefield game cant be met with no critisism. The whole "the developer knows best" argument has been proven wrong again and again and lastly "they do it for money" is a silly excuse when we have had critically and financially acclaimed games which blew minds away for the hardcore established fanbase and newcomers alike. You can please everyone.

So yeah, Im sorry for not joining the "bend over and take it like they intended it to be taken" crowd, especially when most of you have been critical about MW2.

[Nicfurious29]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Gentlemen, I saw so much sucking up to the devs at IW forums that this does not surprise me the least. History also shows us that even the best constructed posts with actual fixes for BF2 have been met with silence. I can certainly understand when people want to shrug of *all* criticism for some provocative reason just to silence up the most vocal yet most ignorant voices. The problem however is that the game actually is marketed as a successor to the last proper PC BF game, not as a BC1 console versions big brother. At least to the PC crowd. And when people have waited 5 years (or 3) years for a sequel, then one should also add in the frustration they went through whole playing the game they sunk hundreds of hours into.

Multiplatform almost always spells bad news for one platform. Lack of features in BC2 compared to what is expected from a Battlefield game cant be met with no critisism. The whole "the developer knows best" argument has been proven wrong again and again and lastly "they do it for money" is a silly excuse when we have had critically and financially acclaimed games which blew minds away for the hardcore established fanbase and newcomers alike. You can please everyone.

So yeah, Im sorry for not joining the "bend over and take it like they intended it to be taken" crowd, especially when most of you have been critical about MW2.

I'm not sure thats what the OP meant Chris. No one here is implying everyone should "bend over and take it like they inteded it to be taken". The argument here is to let some of the people posting in here know that DICE owes them nothing. And to actually believe that a developer owes you a lifetime of support after purchasing a product 5 years ago is absolutely ridiculous.

Multiplatform almost always spells bad news for one platform.

^^^^^Sadly, this is becoming a trend. I try to stay positive right now and believe that a developer can actually get it right in the future. Hell, I think DICE has come pretty close to delivering a polished BFBC2 for all three platforms. I hope other developers can learn from what DICE has done with BC2. The support they have shown the PC community during the beta is astounding to say the least. They have listened to our "suggestions" (i quote because some confuse it with the word demands) and as a result we will all be getting a smoother more refined PC specific version.

[Minmaster]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

owe nothing? they certainly owe us a good game for the money we paid or will pay.

[Nicfurious29]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Why would you pay for a bad game??? And whose fault is it but your own if you do? This word "owe" is tossed around a lot and I'm not sure most people understand its meaning.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

What Nic said. EDIT: Both times

DICE wants feedback, but they are only going to change the game so much. They know what they want the game to do. If thats a console port, then it is and thats it. Everyone saying that they want BF2 in BC2 or they want it to feel like BF2 or whatever BF2 are talking to "the hand". DICE came out and said, "This is not battlefield." which I took to mean, "This will not be a battlefield game or much like it because we have gone a different route with the Bad Company sereis.". Many are upset its not Battlefield and thats fine because DICE said it wasnt. Just like when CoD4 came out and many were upset it wasnt CoD2 or UO. Yeah, it was a different direction and IW didn't even want the CoD name on the 4th game and they even had it off the last one until Activision marketing said to put it back because the numbers fall.

It gets old when many posted remarks are "Its consolized", "Its not Battlefield", "Its dumbed down"... Yeah, I know. People tout "The PC community made DICE." Yeah, they did, just like CoD was made by the same people and $1,000,000,000 later they thank you for purchasing MW2.

Way back whenever, I posted that this game was going to be a consolish port. I was shouted down. I was crazy. DICE wont do that to us. Now some are in a frenzy that this isnt Battlefield. Yeah, DICE said it wasn't. Its like it, but its not. Its a lot better then I thought it was going to be, which that was very nice.

Bah, now I am just ranting again. I'm done. The game is what it is and you all have to decide if you are going to buy it or not. For me, it ran really well and had the features it should to be a good PC game. I purchased every Battlefield game and expansion pack and DICE owes me nothing. Every bug I reported to them they confirmed and have said have fixed it for the release. I am not surprised how this game is except in the fact its better than what I thought.

Crunch

[Minmaster]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Why would you pay for a bad game??? And whose fault is it but your own if you do? This word "owe" is tossed around a lot and I'm not sure most people understand its meaning.

how can we know if it's a bad game without paying and playing it?:p

oh and crunch, it has been consolized.. lol :p

[Nicfurious29]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Call me crazy Crunch but I no longer consider the PC version to be a port. I think DICE has done an amazing job with the PC version. The release of the Beta was the saving grace imo. If they would have released the game without the beta I would have been the first to scream PORT!!! They cleaned up what would have been a console port with some lipstick on it and gave us a PC specific version, and for that I thank them.

Minmaster....there's something called "research". Would you buy a new car without doing some research on it?? Hell, I don't buy any product without a bit of research first.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

I am more amazed at the polish and sheer estability BC2 has. When directly compared to BF2 Beta and Demo; and the worrying closed beta/open beta; demo with no unlocks of BF2142.

The only thing that gave me hope after seeing R1 running on my machine was :

I'm barely above minimum requirements for BC2. It ran steadily at 25+ fps. I had already been in 2142's betas; and I witnessed the colossal upgrading DICE pulled off in those two. If the past is prologue; we are in for a very nice surprise in a couple of days.
Anybody else remembers the paper machie tanks from 2142 beta? And the horrid performance that got seemingly fixed by magic in a week, just in time for the demo.

They weren't joking when they said they NEEDED a new engine for the games; you go back to 2 and 2142 and you notice the stress it takes; it couldn't improve a lot if they kept using the old one.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

It gets old when many posted remarks are "Its consolized", "Its not Battlefield", "Its dumbed down"... Yeah, I know. People tout "The PC community made DICE." Yeah, they did, just like CoD was made by the same people and $1,000,000,000 later they thank you for purchasing MW2.

How is that a good thing? I also think you bringing in COD4 is unfair. The game is a masterpiece and something DICE has yet to even come close to. It has literally everything for competitive and casual community, every technical solution in the book, all while the game is perfectly balanced for pub play, which is amazing. People who think COD4 sucks, mostly do so because its set in modern times and "doesnt feel like Call of Duty". People who think the games perk system caters to "noob" have ProMod. Realism junkies have hardcore. Show me one DICE game which has such a flawless catering to every group in the fanbase covered without bloodshed, complaints and splintered fanbase.

Bah, now I am just ranting again. I'm done. The game is what it is and you all have to decide if you are going to buy it or not. For me, it ran really well and had the features it should to be a good PC game. I purchased every Battlefield game and expansion pack and DICE owes me nothing. Every bug I reported to them they confirmed and have said have fixed it for the release. I am not surprised how this game is except in the fact its better than what I thought.

The problem here once again is the fact that it *is* being marketed as a PC gamers solution to MW2 and with words like "just like all previous BF games..." its also being marketed as a Battlefield game. I have yet to see direct and upfront cautious press releases which claim that BF fans should stay away from the game.

You guys seem to forget why people stay brand- and franchiseloyal. Its not (only) for some sick and twisted sense of belonging. Its about buying a product based on your impressions and experience with the last one. You purchase it with a certain expectations.

And when it comes to being vocal- every developer knows that its not the loud and critical fans they have to worry about, its the silence.

Dismissing all of it purely because you think they dont owe their fans anything is silly, if you advertise your game partially while exploiting the expectations of your veteran fanbase.

[Minmaster]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Minmaster....there's something called "research". Would you buy a new car without doing some research on it?? Hell, I don't buy any product without a bit of research first.

i do this most of the time but not for BF games. since i am such a BF fan, and cannot wait, i have to take a leap of faith and buy the game on release. plus the PC fps scene is so lacking right now that i literally have nothing to play. it's somewhat scary that this is the same attitude i had pre-ordering MW2.

[jake_]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Dismissing all of it purely because you think they dont owe their fans anything is silly, if you advertise your game partially while exploiting the expectations of your veteran fanbase.

There are two things wrong with your point of view. Firstly, I didn't say we should "bend over and take it like they intended it to be taken." It's perfectly find to complain about legitimate issue. The fact that this game isn't BF2 isn't a legitimate issue. Secondly, guess what: BC2 is to sell well even though a handful of BF2 fanboys are heartbroken that it isn't a port of BF2. The "veteran fanbase" that is upset with BC2 is a minority.

Try applying this logic to a musician. Take Bob Dylan for example; he became famous early on as a folk singer. When he, being a creative musician and following his passion, turned "electric." Many in his folk fanboy base who "made him who he was" booed him or just got up and walked out of concerts because that wasn't the Bob Dylan they wanted to hear. They wanted to hear the same thing, no change.

Just try to tell me they were right.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

How is that a good thing? I also think you bringing in COD4 is unfair. The game is a masterpiece and something DICE has yet to even come close to. It has literally everything for competitive and casual community, every technical solution in the book, all while the game is perfectly balanced for pub play, which is amazing. People who think COD4 sucks, mostly do so because its set in modern times and "doesnt feel like Call of Duty". People who think the games perk system caters to "noob" have ProMod. Realism junkies have hardcore. Show me one DICE game which has such a flawless catering to every group in the fanbase covered without bloodshed, complaints and splintered fanbase.

Its not a good thing. I didnt say it was one way or another. There was this huge uproar about the changes in MW2 and all the boycott stuff that most, and I will say most, did not live up to what they said. I also bring up CoD4 because you are correct, it is a masterpiece and an inovative idea from the first CoD games. The hardcore fans didnt like it all because it fell away from the "true" CoD. A lot like this game and the "true" Battlefield. This game wont have all those basis you mentioned because there are no tools to make them. In this DICE is jumping ahead to the MW2 format some.

The problem here once again is the fact that it *is* being marketed as a PC gamers solution to MW2 and with words like "just like all previous BF games..." its also being marketed as a Battlefield game. I have yet to see direct and upfront cautious press releases which claim that BF fans should stay away from the game.

You guys seem to forget why people stay brand- and franchiseloyal. Its not (only) for some sick and twisted sense of belonging. Its about buying a product based on your impressions and experience with the last one. You purchase it with a certain expectations.

And when it comes to being vocal- every developer knows that its not the loud and critical fans they have to worry about, its the silence.

Dismissing all of it purely because you think they dont owe their fans anything is silly, if you advertise your game partially while exploiting the expectations of your veteran fanbase.

I agree, but companies have to move on and make changes, just like in my stupid McDonalds analogy. The same fans that love BF2 will be the people that destroy BF3 because of how they see what they want in their game. CoD did the same thing with the CoD name in Miodern Warfe and Modern Warfare 2, and I suppose World @ War. To me, thats just part of marketing. Im a bit surprised it wasnt Battlefield:Mirrors Edge. Actually, I am not, but that entered my head and thought it was funny

[jake_]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

the anti-realism bash brothers are reunited again.:laugh:

Chris isn't petty. He'll agree with me when he thinks I'm right and disagree when he thinks I'm wrong. It's rather respectable. :)

[jimykx]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Im a bit surprised it wasnt Battlefield:Mirrors Edge.

I still remember to see a post here saying that maybe future dice bf games might have some Mirrors edge moves.

Do you know when you are falling down a building in mirrors edge and your screen kynda shakes to the sides??? DId it happened to you to spawn has an atacker without the parashute deployed and fall like a rock???? When ur falling the screen shakes pretty like the same way it did in mirrors edge :P