Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

[jake_]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

BF2 became extremely clunky when infantry players massive avalanche of complaints coupled with DICE not being objective with the wishes. If you compare BF2 v1.0 to v1.5, the game is unrecognizable. What used to be free and unrestricted infantry combat has turned into a collection of various delays. BF2142 went even worse, where the player literally felt like he was stuck in the mud. The air balance? Time after time, thread after thread people came up with viable solutions, raging from obvious to extreme. I never get tired of mentioning POE2, where you have 6+ fundamentally different jets, yet all well balanced compared to each other, while not overpowering when it comes to the ground. I dont want J10 rape, but I dont want BF2142 either. Thats two extremes which shouldnt exist.



Gordon Van Dyke disagrees with you claiming that its "vague". Im not grasping at anything. I am however disagreeing with the idea that Battlefield players should STFU and not expect to be catered to. Basically to "bend over and adjust to the "change"". Its not like people are burning down houses and lighting cars on fire. They just dont like their expectations not being met. Again.

You completely ignored my rebuttal. I never said that we should "bend over and adjust to the "change"" and certainly not in my OP.


In addition, this thread has gotten quite far off-topic. Although I did talk about BC2 in my OP, I was inspired to write the OP after reading several people's outraged comments upon hearing that BF3 would be cross-platform and not catered to a specifically PC market only. I said that was a ridiculous expectation, for DICE to completely ignore the console market just because the PC community "made DICE who it is."

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

You completely ignored my rebuttal. I never said that we should "bend over and adjust to the "change"" and certainly not in my OP.

What rebuttal, your post has been adressed to in points which mattered. And the difference between "bend over" and "if you dont like it, dont buy it" is nonexistant. Quite simply, you believe people are wrong to expect to have their expectations fulfilled. Thats a lousy excuse. BF3 going multiplatform isnt enraging the more objective fans because X360 players can enjoy the game weve loved. People are genuinely concerned (as Ive already pointed out) because with such a franchise, going multiplatform means someone will lose out. Guess who that is? Certainly isnt you, from what Ive seen.

I said that was a ridiculous expectation, for DICE to completely ignore the console market just because the PC community "made DICE who it is."

You know, since IW set a standard in 2007 on how you port a game and how you take care of your fanbase, I wouldnt be worried if we were talking about them in 2009. This is DICE. Its the company who was unable to fix missile hit detection, which was a two step, couple of manhours worth of work. For you, this might seem like typical fanboy reaction from the elitist PC crowd. For me, the examples before make me cautious. I dont care about BC2. I dont think the game is a catastrophe. But youre taking a dump on peoples expectations who were with the franchise for years, just so you could see yourself as a representative of "common sense and understanding".

Like I said, this thread is offensive.

[[GCA]Tim270]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Interesting how GVD talks about keeping the BF ethos with lots of vehicle and combined arms, and yet BC2 looks to boast a modest amount of vehicles in comparison to other BF titles, Its not just about having vehicles, its about having everything poured into a combined arms battle that made Battlefield different.

At least from the beta map I get the impression that vehicles are few and far between and will play a role of little importance, sure the tank can rack up a lot of kills if he camps on the beta map, but its just not the same having 2 pieces of armour at the start of a round, not air (uav does not count) and no jets. Vehicles have always been about allowing flanking or rushing flags, the BH on mashtuur city was one of the best examples of this. DICE really hit the nail on the head with trying to immerse you in a actual war, watching jets and choppers soar overhead, tanks and jeeps rolling past etc. BC2, for me atleast has not achieved this at all, seems very much more infantry focused to me, which I have a lot of other games that honestly do infantry a lot better. They focus on battlefield moments as a selling point. I am yet to see anything come near what BF2/1942 achieved in this aspect of seeing land air and sea battles taking place at the same time.

I have bought everything from 1942 onwards, this is the first BF game I hesitated to buy simply because of this move away from what I perceive as a battlefield game. I dont think anyone here is asking for them just to remake BF2 on frostbite, hell I would not buy that, but BC2 is not the next logical step from BF2.

I am only buying this game after I found out that you can change the FOV to get rid of those god awful looking guns when forced into console FoV.

[Vreki]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

At least from the beta map I get the impression that vehicles are few and far between and will play a role of little importance, sure the tank can rack up a lot of kills if he camps on the beta map, but its just not the same having 2 pieces of armour at the start of a round, not air (uav does not count) and no jets.

That may be an aspect of the rush game mode with the gradual unlocking of the map and assets. Lets see what conquest brings

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

I dont think anyone here is asking for them just to remake BF2 on frostbite,

Some have as well as for a straight remake of 2142.

hell I would not buy that, but BC2 is not the next logical step from BF2.

No, its not. Its a port. IMO a good port that I think I will enjoy very much, but its still what it is.

I am only buying this game after I found out that you can change the FOV to get rid of those god awful looking guns when forced into console FoV.

If thats the only reason, I wouldnt bother with the purchase. Play the game you want to.

Crunch

[Kylee!]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Honestly I think most of the people who say "LOL THIS ARE CONSOLE PORT I HATE IT." Will end up buying the game anyway.

I don't need to remind everyone about the picture of the "Boycott MW2" steam group - where everyone was playing MW2.

[Vreki]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

No, its not. Its a port. IMO a good port that I think I will enjoy very much, but its still what it is.

Doesn't it have to be developed first on one platform and then ported to another for that to hold true? That is the definition of a port as far as I know.
BC2 seems to be multi-platform, which is different.

A lot of people seem to use "port" when they mean "has consoleish gameplay". But we need to face the fact that that gamestyle is also becoming the most popular on the PC. MW2 is not what it is because it was born on a console, it simply has the gameplay that the majority want regardless of platform.

Soon we will a bunch of grumpy old men talking about how there hasn't been any good music<backspace><backspace><backspace><backspace>< backspace>games made since we where young.

[Kodakk]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Honestly I think most of the people who say "LOL THIS ARE CONSOLE PORT I HATE IT." Will end up buying the game anyway.

I don't need to remind everyone about the picture of the "Boycott MW2" steam group - where everyone was playing MW2.

Boycott doesn't mean preorder? WHAT HAVE I MISSED HERE?!

And yes, you're right, but that doesn't make giving the PC a straight port acceptable. Call of Duty 4 was a port, but it was a good port - PC players were given access to the developer console, the ability to mod, dedicated servers, etc. - while MW2 was not. People bought it, yes, but look at the player count on xfire. BC2 I'm sure will be an OK port, but by playing it I can clearly tell it's made for consoles, and that's not what I look for in a PC game.

That said, BC2 is not my cup of tea. I grew up loving the series (1942 + DC, BF2, etc.) and the Bad Company spin seems to be heading in the Call of Duty direction. They're two different games, and it's becoming increasingly harder to tell them apart. As I said when people asked for vehicles in Call of Duty (namely jets/helos) - Call of Duty is known for its infantry play, while Battlefield is generally known for larger maps, vehicles, the whole shabang. If the game (referring to BC2 here) gives me vehicles, I want freedom, and from what I've experienced in BC2 the maps are way too linear and just funnel you into the action repeatedly.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Doesn't it have to be developed first on one platform and then ported to another for that to hold true? That is the definition of a port as far as I know.
BC2 seems to be multi-platform, which is different.

A lot of people seem to use "port" when they mean "has consoleish gameplay". But we need to face the fact that that gamestyle is also becoming the most popular on the PC. MW2 is not what it is because it was born on a console, it simply has the gameplay that the majority want regardless of platform.

Soon we will a bunch of grumpy old men talking about how there hasn't been any good music<backspace><backspace><backspace><backspace>< backspace>games made since we where young.

Im going to leave what a port game is as a matter of opinion. Batman: AA was a port. Was it made with PC in mind? Yes. Was it made alongside the console versions? Yes. So by technical definition its not a port. Never mind the quick key sequences. In the same context Modern Warfare 2 is not a port. Nevermind the error messages for PC are Xbox error messages. Was MW2 made with PC in mind? Yes it is. Was the PC version built along side the console versions. Yes it was.

Bad Company 1 was console only. Bad Company 2 happens to also be made for PC, so now all of a sudden its no longer a port and a true PC game? If they made Bad Company 1 for PC now, is that a port? No, because the designed it for the PC. No, its still a port. If there are "consoleish" gameplay (good word btw) and has the structure and design of it, thats a port.

Again, think what you want. It makes no difference to me. I am still getting the game and I am accepting the fact its not BF3 or entirely along those lines. I think its going to be fun and enjoyable, even with wookies everywhere.

Crunch

[Nicfurious29]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

I've always known a port to have the same meaning as duplicate. In fact, I believe the term was invented by gaming editors to describe that no additional content was added to the title. I first started hearing the term, "port", when Microsoft first launched the xbox. Magazine editors constantly used the term to inform anyone buying the game that the experience and gameplay is identical to that of its pc counterpart. More importantly, no additional material was added, which also includes improved graphics and/or gameplay. Also, the term was used for games that were previously released on the pc. By my definition, BC2 is not a port.

Only after the MW2 fiasco did the definition start to become skewed. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Only after the MW2 fiasco did the definition start to become skewed. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

No, because you can adjust your video settings and FOV as well, so its not a port.

They also gave MW2 PC mouse and keyboard support, an added bonus according to the developers themselves.

Crunch

[Nicfurious29]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

I'm not debating whether or not MW2 was a port. I was only pointing out that the meaning of the term got mixed up during the MW2 dibacle.

It's also important to point out that to this day I have not read one single editorial report using the term port when describing MW2. The term port was thrown around forums only. Incorrectly I might add.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

No, it's been thrown around both ways for ages now; when starcraft was released for the Nintendo 64, it was a "dumbed down port with nothing added" (and it was that bad, really). The meaning of the owrd started changing when the xbox and ps2 games were around; most of the time, xbox players got a straight port from a ps2 game, unoptimized and not really taking advantage of the xbox hrdware; so the word "port" started to mean "game translation from a platform to another with less features/worse graphics" and even then, that was debatable.

Originally it only meant that one piece of software previously unavailable for one computing platform, was now available for another, and that was a GOOD THING.

[Vreki]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

Originally it only meant that one piece of software previously unavailable for one computing platform, was now available for another, and that was a GOOD THING.

Exactly my point:

In computer science, porting is the process of adapting software so that an executable program can be created for a computing environment that is different from the one for which it was originally designed

It has a well established definition, regardless of the unwashed gaming hordes failed attempts at wielding the English language.
No offense intended

[Kingkat54]

Re: Sense of Entitlement on these Forums...

A sense of entitlement, interesting concept. As I have,and will purchase games from EA/DICE, I suppose I can give an opinion because I have paid my money and have the right to express my views. However, I may not agree with the company, whether I buy the game or not is strictly my choice. Not because it might be a 'port' to PC, or because it doen't have pRoN, its becuase I enjoy playing the game. Period.
I realise that in todays market, you have to sell the most to the greatest number, or you donot survive. Consoles make up a very large segment of this market, and in order to survive, thats where customers are. I doubt any company could survive just in the PC market alone.
This game will succeed because its a good game. A lot of us PC Gamers will enjoy it because it does have server capabilities. The SP portion looks good too.
Then again, having a beta to play with helped make my decision. Maybe EA/ DICE were listening after all.