people and ping

[jeremy_]

Unless the player is suffering from severe packet loss, you will not see them warp around, and shooting directly at them would result in a kill, if you have a good ping, and they have... say 300. Youre at absolutely NO disadvantage. They are at a severe disadvantage. You dont have to lead, they have to lead a whole 1/3 seconds worth.

Anti-lag (which is now forced) does (for the low ping player) remove the some of the guess work (leading and tracking high latency players) but to say it puts them and "NO disadvantage" simply isn't true.

We have all been there:

You see a guy.
You duck around a corner before he gets the shot off.
You die.
The killcam shows him killing you way before you make it around the corner.
You press Tab, your ping is 20, his is 200.

That is anti-lag at it's best and yes it does punish those with the lowest pings.

Would he have killed you if he had a 20 ping as well?
Chances are yes, but having the system negate your reactions and reflexes to give someone (who *chose to connect to a server with a high latency) a free pass is pretty annoying to say the least.

Ive been playing with higher ping during several years. People who yell at high pingers for having a high ping, have usually proven themselves to have no clue. And they whine even harder when the high pinger, through some miracle, manages to kill the low pinger. What happens next is painful to watch...

People generally get annoyed with high ping players in games that have some sort of forced anti-lag system because of the bogus nature of the anti-lag system, not the individual.

Look, most of us played BF2/2142 and as everyone knows you can get away with a high ping in those types of games because of the anti-lag system... but try playing a game like quake 3 with a 150 ping in a server where most people are pinging in the 30's.

It's not pretty to say the least.

Anti-lag is a get out of jail free pass/crutch for high ping players, pure and simple.

[Vreki]

Anti-lag (which is now forced) does (for the low ping player) remove the some of the guess work (leading and tracking high latency players) but to say it puts them and "NO disadvantage" simply isn't true.

We have all been there:

You see a guy.
You duck around a corner before he gets the shot off.
You die.
The killcam shows him killing you way before you make it around the corner.
You press Tab, your ping is 20, his is 200.

That is anti-lag at it's best and yes it does punish those with the lowest pings.

Would he have killed you if he had a 20 ping as well?
Chances are yes, but having the system negate your reactions and reflexes to give someone (who *chose to connect to a server with a high latency) a free pass is pretty annoying to say the least.

I think you are contradicting yourself a bit here. If he would have killed you a 20 ping too, then you haven't lost anything.
In your example your reactions and reflexes are not negated, you were simply too slow to get around the corner. Had it been a 20 ping player, you would had known it at once, but due to the high ping you client guessed wrong and let you think that you escaped. The server knows better and reports your death.

[jeremy_]

I think you are contradicting yourself a bit here. If he would have killed you a 20 ping too, then you haven't lost anything.
In your example your reactions and reflexes are not negated, you were simply too slow to get around the corner. Had it been a 20 ping player, you would had known it at once, but due to the high ping you client guessed wrong and let you think that you escaped. The server knows better and reports your death.

Let me explain what I meant by that.

If two players with a similar (low for the sake of the argument) ping are in that situation (no anti-lag) and the shooter sees the target, fires, and a hit registers, all is well.

Now take that situation (where no anti-lag is present) and make the shooter a high ping player.
By the time he sees the low ping target, in reality that target is already gone.
So when he fires and misses does it screw him over by not accurately displaying on his screen what is going on?

Yes, but here is the important thing to remember, the high ping player *chose to play on a server with high latency so he should be the one "punished" with inaccurate data if anyone is going to be.

Now take that exact same situation where anti-lag is present, and it plays out much differently.

Low ping player gets the information quicker, reacts, evades the shot... only to have anti-lag "roll him back" to where he was when the high ping player finally got the information and reacted to it.

And that is exactly how anti-lag works.

The answer isn't much different. You, as the target, were backward reconciled to the point where your attacker saw you, which was in plain sight. There's nothing buggy or weird about it – it's just a side-effect. Lag compensation by client-side hit tests has exactly the same problem.

[Vreki]

But the high pinger is seeing a delayed version of the world, not a slow version. He may still see you 10 ms after you have left, but he also has to wait 10 ms for you to appear. If you react fast then you will be visible the same amount of time to a high pinger as to a low pinger.

[imported_ATM743]

Anti-lag (which is now forced) does (for the low ping player) remove the some of the guess work (leading and tracking high latency players) but to say it puts them and "NO disadvantage" simply isn't true.

We have all been there:

You see a guy.
You duck around a corner before he gets the shot off.
You die.
The killcam shows him killing you way before you make it around the corner.
You press Tab, your ping is 20, his is 200.

That is anti-lag at it's best and yes it does punish those with the lowest pings.

Would he have killed you if he had a 20 ping as well?
Chances are yes, but having the system negate your reactions and reflexes to give someone (who *chose to connect to a server with a high latency) a free pass is pretty annoying to say the least.



People generally get annoyed with high ping players in games that have some sort of forced anti-lag system because of the bogus nature of the anti-lag system, not the individual.

Look, most of us played BF2/2142 and as everyone knows you can get away with a high ping in those types of games because of the anti-lag system... but try playing a game like quake 3 with a 150 ping in a server where most people are pinging in the 30's.

It's not pretty to say the least.

Anti-lag is a get out of jail free pass/crutch for high ping players, pure and simple.

i agree with this

i see this ALLOT of times when i play. EVERY TIME i get killed im like no way. ill unload a good 6 shoots in him then when i see the kill cam i never even fired. i find that to be pretty gay

[jeremy_]

i agree with this

i see this ALLOT of times when i play. EVERY TIME i get killed im like no way. ill unload a good 6 shoots in him then when i see the kill cam i never even fired. i find that to be pretty gay

That is another aspect of anti-lag that should be noted.
Hit detection in CQC can be very misleading for the LP player.

People are quick to blame the killcam for inaccurate playbacks but most never bother to check the other players ping in these situations before placing blame.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about 90 ping vs. 120, I'm talking about a major difference (+/- 100ms).

[Chris_Redfield]

We have all been there:

You see a guy.
You duck around a corner before he gets the shot off.
You die.
The killcam shows him killing you way before you make it around the corner.
You press Tab, your ping is 20, his is 200.

That is anti-lag at it's best and yes it does punish those with the lowest pings.

I have never, ever experienced nor seen this in any game. Ever. Id like some FRAPS video footage.

The fact that I still have to compensate for MY ping, 200ms, to hit others (by aiming ahead) in COD4, means that its not working the way youre describing. And Ive played against high pingers a lot, to be able to hit them dead on.

The most obvious example would be BF2 dogfighting. If I have a ping of 30, it will not matter to the least, whether my cannon rounds (direct impact weapon) are aimed at a high pinger or a low pinger. I will take him down in a matter of seconds, provided Im aiming at his hull.

If Im playing with a ping of 150 and above, the target leading I have to apply (lagshooting), is... tremendous.

Even with a ping of 60+, my average in COD4, I have to apply lagshooting, in a small scale. And having played against high pingers, Ive never, for once, experienced being killed while being in cover after I was out for a brief moment.

However, Ive seen this happening a LOT to myself when Ive been playing with a high ping.

And lastly. Killcam is a simulation of events on your side. Its not 100% biblical truth.

Ill do a video on me playing as a high pinged player, and a low pinged player against high pinged players today, later. I´ll test it out, as I see a lot of theoretical "make sense", but it goes steeply against my own experience, and Ive been playing with a ping of 150 for years.

[FPS[SONIC]]

And the server browser does a really crappy job of showing the actual server ping, so you cant really blame people.

That is an EXCELLENT point.

...snip...

MAN, I wish they would fix the browser. Its the biggest flaw in the entire game (My opinion others would disagree I am sure).

I completely agree. The server browser was the only deficient thing about this game when it released. Everything else was well implemented. Sure, there were a few small problems, but that is to be expected.

IMO, CoD4 is a great game with a mediocre server browser.

[Sm3lln03vil]

I think you are contradicting yourself a bit here. If he would have killed you a 20 ping too, then you haven't lost anything.
In your example your reactions and reflexes are not negated, you were simply too slow to get around the corner. Had it been a 20 ping player, you would had known it at once, but due to the high ping you client guessed wrong and let you think that you escaped. The server knows better and reports your death.

that does make me mad, but more than anything, is when there is some1 sitting afk or something with a ping of like 250, and you keep lagging and when u press TAB, u see his ping keep spiking up to 999, and when u call a vote to drop him, nobody votes, and he stays...

[Babymax]

so really people with crapy ping can probably do as good or better than people with good ping.

You're absolutely right, but not for the reason you're arguing. Chris mentioned already about HPBs having to compensate for their own lousy connections, which in my experience means having to anticipate things a lot more consistently than LPBs need to. People keep talking about hpbs warping, teleporting, blah, blah, blah. WTF you think if I have an 800 ping that I'm not going to see you warping around as well?

I played Quake 2 and Unreal Tournament with an average of 550-750ms ping every day. You think that was easy even when servers started using zero ping/anti-lag software? You're ****ing deluded if you think that. I ALWAYS had to time my shots at least half a second to a full second before my target would be where my shots would finally start landing. And guess what? LPBs never liked that, in fact they despised it. They didn't have to compensate, at least not as much as we low pingers did, and they could NOT admit they were being outplayed.

[FPS[VT_NERD]]

"Ping" in this game is actually latency.

The difference is that latency takes into account your framerate when calculating the value that is displayed on the screen. If you have a low framerate then your latency will be higher.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the people in these servers have pings below 100ms but IW chose to display latency. I can personally vary my ping by 50-60ms by changing my video options. I don't mind a slightly higher ping in exchange for eye candy so I play with a lower framerate and a higher ping.

[Pitchfork]

I can feel it when someone with 200+ hops on ours.
Most of the regs are around 60 to 100, so perhaps we are spoiled...