Hacking Sites under Investigation

[danopia]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

But I can probably code better than most people on here, while you'd own my *** on BF2. Does that make me a cheater? No. :P

This topic has gone from "ZOMG HACKING IS ILLEGAL" to proving that I'm guilty. So let me say this - hacking isn't illegal unless you have a really stupid hack that edits the game. Period.

[Xodus]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

But I can probably code better than most people on here, while you'd own my *** on BF2. Does that make me a cheater? No. :P

This topic has gone from "ZOMG HACKING IS ILLEGAL" to proving that I'm guilty. So let me say this - hacking isn't illegal unless you have a really stupid hack that edits the game. Period.

Can't code better than me :)

[CQ-Reborn]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

Dude! If you do this what excuse will all the ****ty players have for getting kerpwnt repeatedly?!

[Spik3d]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

But I can probably code better than most people on here, while you'd own my *** on BF2. Does that make me a cheater? No. :P

This topic has gone from "ZOMG HACKING IS ILLEGAL" to proving that I'm guilty. So let me say this - hacking isn't illegal unless you have a really stupid hack that edits the game. Period.

Why don't you go into the gaming industry, make clean money and be respected or join a mod team?

[danopia]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

@Spik3d:
I do make clean money. I freelance PHP and similar. You might see me in the IRC channels for a bunch of different languages. :)

@CQ-Reborn:
???

[Spik3d]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

Then why do you supply cheats to others?

[[GCA]Tim270]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

This topic has gone from "ZOMG HACKING IS ILLEGAL" to proving that I'm guilty. So let me say this - hacking isn't illegal unless you have a really stupid hack that edits the game. Period.

Yes, but obviously you must understand why people jump all over you like this as the hacks that you supply are a huge pain in the arse for most Bf2 players.

[danopia]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

@Spik3d:
For extra money. No one here considers that money "clean" here but it really is.

@Sir. Tasty:
I understand. I never complained about the new topic; I just noted the change.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

@Spik3d:
For extra money. No one here considers that money "clean" here but it really is.

Dont try to portray it as a morally grey area. That money is by every definition dirty except by the law, and weve seen our fair share of news and Ally McBeal to know that every law can be exploited to the maximum to feed the dirty ones.

Youre happy to do your job and get paid, we get it, now GTFO please and take pride in what you do talking to people who appreciate what you do, clearly you will not get any respect nor sympathy here, no matter how you slice it.

[LightBred]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

I doubt anything will be done.

I don't think anything should be done honestly with the sites/providers, if people want to point a finger, blame the people using them.

This is like everyone blaming gun makers for crime, it just doesn't work.

[Dan673]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

i'm happy for you that your family is wealthy, but you sir are th eone that brought money into this conversation to begin with. i guess your selective argumentative positioning is a result of your maturity. but it's ok, we were all kids once :)

secondly, i never claimed to be super rich. i'm pretty well off, far from what you proclaimed us to be in that same post. hell, i've been to more countries than you are years old. maybe one day you'll understand, but for now just enjoy the blissfull ignorance of youth :)

Yes ignorance is bliss, but you made made the fatal mistake of believing that you are the the most qualified man here thats part of the "rich wealthy elite", and that what you say should not be backfired off of the audience that you address. Sure I still have alot to learn, I'm only 17 of course. In my original post, I included only those 2 possibilities because they are quite the common stereotypes of a hardcore gamers and people who just sit there discouraging peope over the internet, using their monitor as a defense mechanism. My post doesn't reflect my maturity as I hope you can see now. To me, you are the fish that grasped the hook (my first post), and now, I'm not casting you back into the sea, but in the grinder where you'll be fed to the rich wealthy elite as a piece of sushi.

Now back on topic:

I doubt anything will be done.

I don't think anything should be done honestly with the sites/providers, if people want to point a finger, blame the people using them.

This is like everyone blaming gun makers for crime, it just doesn't work.

I can see where your coming from there lightbred, but I'm fairly sure no one has thought about it as seriously as Mitch has here and taken this all the way to the FBI and INS. Sure its likely for this to take months upon months, with possibly a dissapointing result but this is a perservering effort that he should be commended for, he's sticking up for all of the gamers out there that dislike hacking and taking the anger at the hackers to another level. Great work Mitch.

[<<R2>>Yammernutz]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

Well, this thread has gone completely off topic.

The issue at hand is the legality of using "hacks" in an online game. Aside from breach of EULA's there are other legal issues involved with the production, purchase and use of these "hacks".

Primarily is the "chat bomb" or whatever it is that you would like to refer to it as. For those who are unawares this "chat bomb" crashes the server by flooding the ingame chat. By crashing a server you are doing what is called a "Denial of Service" attack. For more info refer yourself to the Computer Misuse Act of 1990. This act is also currently being re-visited as of the fall of 2006.

Basically, server owners pay to rent time on a game server. That means they pay for a months time of gaming. A denial of service attack prevents them from getting all of what they paid for. This IS illegal. When a "hack" package is purchased the chat flood is included. Therefore, a portion of the purchased product IS illegal. And selling a product whose purpose is illegal activity is also illegal. Make sense? I'm trying to keep this all in laymans terms so I don't lose anyone.

Now, that doesn't mean that the FBI, IRS or any other task force will take much interest. However, that also doesn't mean that you don't fight for whats right. The OP has my full support and is on the right side of the law on this one. Sure, they can shut down and move but thats completely irrelevant. Even if they do, you simply find another method of fighting them.

There is also another legal avenue that can be pursued, and yes it does work. If you can provide proof (daemon logs etc) to the script kiddies (thats what I call hackers) ISP about a DOS attack, you CAN get them ISP blacklisted. Simply contact their ISP's legal department. This can take a little time but it's worth it. Don't stop trying Mitch, there are a lot of gamers out there that are on your side.

Oh, and off topic. danopia you are correct about your use of "or" and "nor". However, when you decide to criticize someones grammar (specifically in the example you used) try not to use a double negative.

[<<R2>>Yammernutz]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

@danopia
Fair enough. If your sites "hacks" don't use DOS attacks thats fine. However, there are other ways to crash a server (intentionally or not). Like I said there are other illegalities involved. They might not be perceived as important to the authorities, but that doesn't qualify them as "legal".

There is not much else I can say specifically relating to your particular "hacks" without knowing what site you represent. I would be willing to bet that not everything on your site is legal.

[Mitch]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

Afternoon folks,

Not much going on over the weekend with this but I wanted to stop by and take a few minutes to let you folks know that I am still pursing this matter and to address some of the comments that have been made on the forums over the past few days concerning this issue. I also want to clarify a few things as I do not want the members following this to have unreasonable expectations about what type results or how fast we can expect to see them.

First off, let me thank all of you that have posted a reply expressing your support for what I am attempting to do here, I sincerely appreciate the support you folks have shown, however, I need to caution everyone not to get false expectations about how long this process is going to take or the type of results we can expect to see before any real progress is made.

As for you folks that have expressed negative feedback about me or what I am attempting to accomplish, all I can say is that’s fine your entitled to your express you opinions and I can respect that, however if you are one of the members that has posted comments trying to start an argument or flame war with me on the forums do yourself a favor right now, don’t waste your time as it’s not going to work.

This past Friday, I spoke with IRS concerning this matter. During the conversation, I explained the details of what was taking place here and asked them what steps I need to take to file a formal complaint. The agent provided me a link to their website and instructed me to fill out form “3949a” After looking at the from I was concerned about not being able to provide some of the information the form was asking for and he instructed me to provide as much information concerning the site, domain and hosting provider and details as to the specific activity and complaint and they would have the ability to obtain the necessary information on the individual or individuals involved.

I checked in to getting this information and determined that they used Go Daddy to register the domain. The domain was registered using domainsbyproxy.com so that they would be able to hide their domain registration info from the public not that that matters much as this information is usually false in most cases.

I did some basis check on the domain 187ci.com & 187ci.net using dnsstuff.com and after you sort through all the crap it turns out that they are leasing a dedicated server from The Planet.com which is the parent company for Server Matrix & Insomnia. Now for those of you that don’t know this “Insomnia” aka I365 is a ranked server provider for EA.

Now that you know that little tidbit which by the way anyone with a computer could find out, you will understand this next part better. After collecting this information, I submitted an abuse ticket to Go Daddy, Domain by Proxy.com and “The Planet.com” explaining the details of the activities being conducted and requested that they investigate my complaint and take the appropriate action.

In addition to that, I have drafted 2- letters on Friday which are currently being reviewed by an attorney before I send them off next week. The reason for having them reviewed is that I need to protect myself from any possible retaliatory legal action that could result from the content of the letters. One of the letters is to Electronic Arts and the other is for “The Planet”. I can not discuss the specific details at this time; however I am sure most of you probably have some idea what I may have said in them.

The other reason I am speaking with an attorney is because I am planning on going to customers that rent game servers from I365 and asking them to email The Planet demanding that they immediately put a stop to this activity or that they will pull their business. If The Planet refuses to take the appropriate action, I will be launching a major campaign detailing what The Planet is allowing to take place and calling for a general boycott of their company by all the respectable server owners in the gaming community until they agree to cooperate. I am also going to be contacting Pay Pal about this to see if they are willing and can legally do anything to help out.

There are a few things I need you folks to keep in mind. First off there is no quick fix for this and it is going to take a lot of time and effort. Internet laws at best are vague and subject to a great deal of interpretation depending on who you talk to. Next even if we are successful in getting 187ci put out of business there are still a ton of other sites that need to be addressed and many of them operate outside the legal authority of the US or it allies, so to deal with them may require a more direct type of intervention by myself or one of my colleagues that can not for obvious reasons be used on any site that is under US jurisdiction. Even if by some stroke of dumb luck we could get every commercial site shut down this would not stop hacking because as someone mentioned it would just drive it underground, however it would be much more difficult for players to get their hands on them.

For this type of effort to have any success it is going to require a great deal of mutual cooperation from everyone that supports trying to provide a so called cheat free gaming environment meaning organizations like Punk Buster & Punks Busted, gaming companies like EA, providers such as The Planet as well as server operators and legitimate gamers such as you and I. And even then at best we can only hope to significantly minimize the impact of cheaters on all of us.

I will be back with more updates as they become available or if I make any progress. In the mean time if you support what I am trying to do and would like to help out do me a favor and send and email to The Planet expressing your dissatisfaction over this activity and demand that they but an immediate stop to it or you will support a boycott of their company in our gaming community. You can reach them on their website at theplanet.com, I don’t want to post the DNS record on the forums because this reply is long enough but if you want to also send an email to their abuse department you can do so at the following address abuse@theplanet.com. You will need the domain information which can be found at the dnsstuff.com website. I have a commercial account there but you can do 10 free basic searches unregistered or 30 detailed free searches if you are willing to register and answers some basics questions.

Again, let me thank everyone that support not only what I am doing but all the efforts being made to curb the ramped cheating that affects all of us in the gaming community.

Mitch

[MadMax018]

Re: Hacking Sites under Investigation

It's just a game!

10-15 yrs. from now, no one will even remember BF2 and there will still be hacking sites (if not more). There's plenty of things you can do with your time, mate.