50 things you miss about BF2

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

Yes Red we've discussed this before, but since it's been brought up again, I think we should talk about it once more. Fact is, if truly 96% of servers are IO then doesn't that kind of reveal something about the core vanilla BF2?

You would want it so, that it would leave an impression that something is wrong with "vanilla". But whats wrong is the player base. THAT is completely fvcked up. Add that to the all screwing hand of DICE, and youve got a disaster at your hands. In no way the game is unplayable, it never was unplayable. Everything you despise and dislike comes down to not accepting the fundamental absolute truth.

"You are an infantry grunt, a groundpounder." You are the lowest in the food chain, and all the hard work is on your shoulders. If you start accepting that the vehicles (if not gods...) are at least something you should occasionally simply run the f*** away from.

The people whom I know that can evade jets and tanks (while playing solely Assault/Medic for anti infantry purposes) have accepted that fact and come from a long tradition of raping it up in vehicles themselves.

You get experienced in a vehicle to know what its capable of and what its not and application of that knowledge will drive you forward. I still to this date believe its easier to play as infantry, than as a vehicle driver in terms of survivability.

Now, I just described players who have adapted, evolved and moved on, and surpassed other players vastly in terms of their own personal enjoyement and results on the field (mind you that those people dont switch kits that easily).

Theres another kind, and youve seen that kind sit on the airfield, play Karkand 100%, and statpad.

I know for a fact that the only servers that I play which are full every day, are the two karkand IO's, the jala IO, and the Wake 24/7. 75% of these servers are IO, a credit either to the success of infantry play, or rather the colossal failure of vehicle play, and those who want it. Guess which school I adhere to?

Theres no colossal failure. Theres unfixed bugs. Tanks and APCs are easy meat for pretty much everything. Helicopters need just one guy chasing them in a jeep, or one dedicated, experienced STA troop. Jets need 2 STA sites manned for coverage, a Mobile STA for hunting, and if theres competition airbourne, the jet is a non-factor alltogether.

What has failed, is that DICE gave too much credit to its player base. I personally, if I ever will create a game, will create it for monkeys so that people described in BF2 could play it "for fun".

Karkand IO, Jala IO, and Wake 24/7 describes what would be known as statpadders heaven. That tells you a lot about the PEOPLE and not the game. Other maps are magnificent and well balanced throughout. Yet you bring up Wake, where JSF against J10 is just a mismatch, and its easy to rape the carrier. Karkand is like an acid mark, everyone knows how to play it to maximise the points, IO just makes it easier for players (skilled) like you.

IMO, as above, vehicle maps are full of whining kids who deny the existance of the problems at hand only because they do not have to deal with them.

The whining kids who go to IO just chose the easiest gameplay ever. I mean, seriously. With a 5:1 KDR, playing in IO, youre stomping the ground with newbies and have your fun from... voila... winning. No competition.

If you're sitting in a chopper 400m out using TVM on a totally defenceless MAA (which just seems ****ing retarded, WRT what a MAA is meant to be doing o.0)

Heres the fundamental flaw in your stance against vehicles. You are assuming the vehicles just have a kill button to press and the "rock-paper-scissor" balance will take care of the rest.

Its still a skill based game. If you want to be effective in the counterbalance to a threat, you better get as good at it as the offense is good at their art. Most people fail to accept that phylosophy and cant move on, except to elimiane the higher stage of the food chain altogether, going to IO.

you aren't going to care whether or not he can shoot back. You're not going to think to yourself "oh well, I suppose it really isn't fair that my helicopter gets 6 1h1k missles that far outrange any viable defence methods".

375 vs 450. Mobile STA, if not detected by spotting or UAV, can use foliage and map structure to hide almost anywhere. All it needs to do is to flank a common scouting route of the chopper, and just shoot through the flares. 3h2k.

Seriously, and I'm not kidding, there have been times that I've let people run away from me unharmed while I sat there in my tank, simply because I knew that this game is so damn screwed up. FYI, and a litle tip, reversing in a tank from a head-on missle reduces the damage it deals, even if it strikes the treads. Ripleys IMO. I have been in a tank that survived 8 AT missles, no engineer support, no supply crate, just reversing from incoming missles. How is that possibly fair?

Ask DICE. They catered to the whiners. This time its whiners in tanks. Take the unpatched BF2 at its original stance. Tanks died to a normal of 3 AT hits. APCs took fire with 2.

So now I play IO. I can get killed just as easily as I kill.

You are being modest here. Ive seen your videos. You kill just as easily as I kill with a jet. No competition. 45-8 is a proof of your hypocrisy as in "equal terms" the number should be close to 1:1.

FUNNILY ENOUGH I don't have any screenies from kills made within jets or choppers. Why? Because those vehicles aren't for good players. You might be good IN them, fair enough, but if you're a good player you won't use them.

I get screens in jets in 2 occasions. When Im being called a hacker by another dogfighter or when I kill a better fighter than I am. Those are the kills and screens that matter. Nobody takes other screens except for those of excellent rounds. Vehicles arent for good player, vehicles are for players that LIKE THEM. If youre a good player and use a vehicle, youve found your niche.

MrBenis, you are scorejealous and pointhungry statw´0re. Pardon my french. But if you think that if a player becomes good, he should drop vehicles because its "easy to get kills", you are aiming for the result in score brought by the vehicles. Good players in vehicles enjoy what they are doing, probably how you enjoy your gameplay.

Have a visit to Unranked servers. The admins in many of those have taken it up to their own to change gameplay by altering flag positions, vehicles, vehicle numbers, tickets and many, many other options with no need for you to download anything.

Air vehicles in this game are broken, it's a fact.

Theya re not broken. The mentality of the Average Grunt is broken. Unfixably broken. Aircraft and vehicles in general need a fix provided by people who have spent 1000+ hours in them and against them. DICE will not listen to them, never has. They listen to those who have sub 100 hours and who whine the most.

[SyDuS]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

MrPenis (sorry couldn't resist) 96% is complete crap, maybe 96% of kark servers are, but perhaps if you ever took the Infantry only filter off you would see that there are more servers with vehicles than now, why don't you check game monitor, when just a regular ranked PB filter 2800 servers come up for me and only about 400 are I/O, and yes 96% of those are karkand/jalalanade, so in a sense i spose your right since your novehicles filter has never been removed.

[Keiros]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

96% of servers are IO

I see about 2500 servers filtering only for pb, and a max of 450 when I filter for no vehicles. Where does this 96% come from?

[MrBenis]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

He needs to play 24/7 berlin (2142) and be in the APC gunner seat, he will absolutely love vehicles then, no one has seen nade spam till they've done that. :yay:

Been there, done that. Quit 2142 after about 2 months of playing. I sat there thinking "w.t.f. is wrong with this game. Why is it allowed to be like this?".

@Sydus: that's presumptious. You realise right that I play PR and scrim regularly with my clan, don't you? I mean, like, you're so omniscient and shet surely you'd know that I play vehicle servers :) On another note, the 96% figure wasn't mine. Read the thread again plz. Pwnt.

@red: Hmm. Interesting analogy. I do however have one thing to point out: most maps have only 1 MAA, which is slow and has little armour, appears on a jets bomb-dar, has no defence systems, a weak main cannon (poor hit reg is to blame there. Shoddy netcode etc) and just 4 weak missles at any time.

The low radar coverage for AA lock becomes most prevalent due to the speed of ATG/STA combat, primarily bomber vs MAA or chopper vs MAA. Contact distances play a critical role here, with bomber AT missles being ai homing and 1h1k, and the choppers of course getting TVM which is 450/500m and also 1h1k.

With three hits from missles required to outright kill any airborne target, considering the pace of that combat, getting three missles to fire AND lock is difficult at best. In fact, unlike the 'skill' based airplatforms, there's no guarantees at all that the missle will lock.

So not only do MAA's and SAMs have to worry about bad missles and the small windows of combat opportunity, they also have no defence measures, and the passive-detection of even SAMs is represented on the bombdar (gameplay facet, totally unrealistic but then again BF2 should NEVER be considered reality). The problem is certainly more extensive than simply what is easiest to get good scores in.

As mentioned above, I play PR a bit these days, mainly due to boredom with the average-player mentality that has evolved on australasian servers, where anyone who's doing a little too well is a hacker or otherwise a statpadder in some sense. I seriously had some ozzie moron join my squad one time and have him verbally abuse me because at the time I was a 1st lt or whatever and this useless fool was only a sergeant major or whatever and he had "been playing since release, asswipe" so he told me. He accused me of jetwhoring, flagskipping, tank camping and a whole plethora of other vehicle-related stats boosting crimes. Now obviously my stats don't reflect this, but he was content to pretend it was despite having never seen me before and that I was more highly ranked than him which was "impossible without whoring" as far as he was concerned. Anyway, I play PR and occasionally find myself needing the AA kit as a grunt, or in a MAA.

In PR, though not entirely effective, AA is still much better than vanilla, in terms of their execution and the inherent balance generated.

Fact is, vehicles are meant to be the minority factor, an army can have 32 soldiers, but if every single one has his own private tank then things get ridiculous, non? 32 Choppers? 32 Su-34's? So how come despite there being like.. 3 or 4 tanks *at best* on any given average map 64p, that they are so difficult to deal with unless spammed, rammed or crammed? Spammed by AT, rammed jihad jeep, or crammed by jets/heli?

Basicly, before I rant any further, I can't answer for anyone else in all honesty, I only work with what I know. ICONZ run an 'aviation' server which is popular enough to allow its continued existance, but when I join I see the same damn thing.. someone whinging about getting owned by aircraft. These are not newbies either, some of them are damn good and experienced players like myself and I presume you, but they still throw a tantrum against being raped endlessly by other players even with a no attacking uncaps rule in place. Fact is, as soon as your jet leaves the carrier or w/e, the other jets already in the air shoot you down near instantly, completely nullifying the effort. Helicopters? Same schtick.

Never once heard about the carrier being raped by MAA or tanks... heh.. until I came along. Dragon valley + PGZ = win. They can't believe that they're getting owned by MAA, not the least because the missles are actually hitting.

:)

[DesertFalcon]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

96% of the servers are not Io its more like 20-25%

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

@red: Hmm. Interesting analogy. I do however have one thing to point out: most maps have only 1 MAA, which is slow and has little armour, appears on a jets bomb-dar, has no defence systems, a weak main cannon (poor hit reg is to blame there. Shoddy netcode etc) and just 4 weak missles at any time.

The low radar coverage for AA lock becomes most prevalent due to the speed of ATG/STA combat, primarily bomber vs MAA or chopper vs MAA.

I agree with the common opinion that there should be at least one Mobile STA for each jet present on the map. At least. Coupled with the stationary STAs that are there at this moment. 4 missiles are much more potent than you make them out to be. For one, if shot correctly (timing and flare position-wise), they go through the flares right on to the target. And you cant dodge them. It takes a few hits to nullify the need for the 3rd missile to hit, cannon isnt the main weapon, its just a support in case of close distance combat.

Contact distances play a critical role here, with bomber AT missles being ai homing and 1h1k, and the choppers of course getting TVM which is 450/500m and also 1h1k.

I find the bombers to be a nuisance indeed (too bad the missiles arent TVGM like the choppers), but nowhere near as effective because bombers and jets in general fly on a very traditional flightpath and you can actually use buildings, trees and hills to have virtual invicibility against those LGMs.

Oh and chopper TVGM distance is a factual 450 metres. STA is 375, its proven and checked out.

With three hits from missles required to outright kill any airborne target, considering the pace of that combat, getting three missles to fire AND lock is difficult at best. In fact, unlike the 'skill' based airplatforms, there's no guarantees at all that the missle will lock.

If anything, you can make the jet run away, which is a 1:0 in your favour and you will buy that extra necessary time for your boys to cap the flag. You will always be lower on the food chain, unfortunately MAA or STA in general are not rock to airs paper, unless used with skill, experience and teamwork. But you know my stance on that topic- nobody has fun enough to actually gather 1500 hours (comparision to pilots) in Mobile STA or static STA (LOL...).

So not only do MAA's and SAMs have to worry about bad missles and the small windows of combat opportunity, they also have no defence measures, and the passive-detection of even SAMs is represented on the bombdar (gameplay facet, totally unrealistic but then again BF2 should NEVER be considered reality

Mobile STAs best defense is players experience in knowing flight patterns and the maps. You can effectively hide yourself so that the jet will have to make multiple turns to get to you, choppers are easier as they need visual confirmation. Lock on time is 1 second and its more than enough. And if they flare, just shoot right through them. Yes, missiles are that easy.

Anyway, I play PR and occasionally find myself needing the AA kit as a grunt, or in a MAA.

Well, in BF2, its not as easy as "picking up a kit and shooting 2". And it shouldnt be.

In PR, though not entirely effective, AA is still much better than vanilla, in terms of their execution and the inherent balance generated.

Try POE2. Very similar to BF2, air is balanced out.

Fact is, vehicles are meant to be the minority factor, an army can have 32 soldiers, but if every single one has his own private tank then things get ridiculous, non? 32 Choppers? 32 Su-34's? So how come despite there being like.. 3 or 4 tanks *at best* on any given average map 64p, that they are so difficult to deal with unless spammed, rammed or crammed? Spammed by AT, rammed jihad jeep, or crammed by jets/heli?

Vehicles can be a minority factor (in numbers), but their impact is surely more than just supportive. In the end, its the infantry that does the job, but take vehicles as a counterbalance to that infantry. I dont think I need to point out that infantry is the lowest form of existence in BF2, which makes vehicles naturally superior (which explains their lower numbers).

Basicly, before I rant any further, ...Same schtick.

If they were experienced, they would rarely whine. The thing is, the worst balance issue lies between air vehicles and ground vehicles, and not infantry. If Im in a tank, I have no chances of survival. Thats the real shame, but then again... I dont expect anything more either.

Never once heard about the carrier being raped by MAA or tanks... heh.. until I came along. Dragon valley + PGZ = win. They can't believe that they're getting owned by MAA, not the least because the missles are actually hitting.

:)

LOL... want to secure many pics of "hacking" accusations? Try pixelshooting the carrier

[ichangedmyname]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

So, becuase he has worked and played and gained experience and skill he has an unfair advantage? You can come from that angle, but what you are saying is that he has an unfair advantage becuase he is better than them. But that is his personal skill level, not the advantages of the vehicle he is using.
You seem to stuff J-10 into my mouth whenever I say jets, I am saying jets and choppers and used the J-10 specifically once. And, again when I used the J-10 as an example where did I say Wake? Nowhere. don't put words into people's mouths to fit your arguements Chris.
Vehichles offer the person in the vehicle a safe and deadly platform from which noobs and skilled players in the vehicle alike can easily rack up kills and destroy people who did not get a vehicle in the initial rush for them at the beginning of the round.
I do not deny that it takes skill to evade other jets or choppers in air. But you have at the maximum 2 enemies that can take you down. Unless you suck at choppers and may be brought down by a jet, make it a whopping 4 now. Try facing the threat of 32 enemies in infantry combat.
Baseraping and easily dominating infantry and weaker vehicles may seem fun when you hop in your trusty vehicle every round. Glad you like racking up the points and the kills, while making everyone else suffer deaths and near flag captures.
Sure you can hide behind cover whenever a jet flys by. But that is forcing players to base thier entire gameplay on avoiding 2 enemies.
You are going to make the jet or chopper run away with a missile? Sure, why not, then they come back in 20 seconds later and unload some Hydras or 200 rounds of 20 mike-mike on you.
Again, when you talk about mobile AA's you are taking it from the point of view of someone who spends the entire round getting into a concealed position to take 3 or 4 jets over the course of the round. That sounds like a good round to me, why don't people spend every round like that?
You basically hit the nail on the head, there are less vehicles, but they have more power than the infantry- who are doing the work. Must be enjoyable for those infantry on a vehicle map doing all the work while a minority group of players with superior advantages rakes up the kills and the points all round.
What you are describing and promoting is a game where an elite group of players secure superior weaponry and protection every round to destroy weaker groups of players trying to capture and defend flags. Might be your perfect game, seeing as you get the superiority every round. Nobody else ends up having fun.
And you could say that people could get the jets and choppers themselves. But, hey, did it ever occur to you that maybe someong would not want to spend 10 minutes waiting for a vehicle and being raped and TK'ed so they could cruise around raping people?
I/O allows people to play infantry without the constant threat of several sh!ts in various forms of aircraft and vehicles dominating the server. I/O is far more from a group of complete noobs running around chucking nades, claymores, and reviving people. If you ever stepped out of your 24/7 Baserape the "grunts" server you would realize that. But, then again, the skill of I/O players would soon have you running back for jet, chopper, or tank.
Stop trying to pass off I/O players as noobs, I/O was brought into the game because of huge demand from elite infantry players forced to bad gameplay experience because maps were skewed against them.

Cheers

[proto]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

...........

I spent 50 bucks to enjoy the game for myself. Not to let someone else smell the Oman breeze.

IO was the only thing EA/Dice ever did for the competitive community.

[DesertFalcon]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

IO is lame you want a game full of noobs and no vehicles go play Counter strike.

So, becuase he has worked and played and gained experience and skill he has an unfair advantage? You can come from that angle, but what you are saying is that he has an unfair advantage becuase he is better than them. But that is his personal skill level, not the advantages of the vehicle he is using.
You seem to stuff J-10 into my mouth whenever I say jets, I am saying jets and choppers and used the J-10 specifically once. And, again when I used the J-10 as an example where did I say Wake? Nowhere. don't put words into people's mouths to fit your arguements Chris.
Vehichles offer the person in the vehicle a safe and deadly platform from which noobs and skilled players in the vehicle alike can easily rack up kills and destroy people who did not get a vehicle in the initial rush for them at the beginning of the round.
I do not deny that it takes skill to evade other jets or choppers in air. But you have at the maximum 2 enemies that can take you down. Unless you suck at choppers and may be brought down by a jet, make it a whopping 4 now. Try facing the threat of 32 enemies in infantry combat.
Baseraping and easily dominating infantry and weaker vehicles may seem fun when you hop in your trusty vehicle every round. Glad you like racking up the points and the kills, while making everyone else suffer deaths and near flag captures.
Sure you can hide behind cover whenever a jet flys by. But that is forcing players to base thier entire gameplay on avoiding 2 enemies.
You are going to make the jet or chopper run away with a missile? Sure, why not, then they come back in 20 seconds later and unload some Hydras or 200 rounds of 20 mike-mike on you.
Again, when you talk about mobile AA's you are taking it from the point of view of someone who spends the entire round getting into a concealed position to take 3 or 4 jets over the course of the round. That sounds like a good round to me, why don't people spend every round like that?
You basically hit the nail on the head, there are less vehicles, but they have more power than the infantry- who are doing the work. Must be enjoyable for those infantry on a vehicle map doing all the work while a minority group of players with superior advantages rakes up the kills and the points all round.
What you are describing and promoting is a game where an elite group of players secure superior weaponry and protection every round to destroy weaker groups of players trying to capture and defend flags. Might be your perfect game, seeing as you get the superiority every round. Nobody else ends up having fun.
And you could say that people could get the jets and choppers themselves. But, hey, did it ever occur to you that maybe someong would not want to spend 10 minutes waiting for a vehicle and being raped and TK'ed so they could cruise around raping people?
I/O allows people to play infantry without the constant threat of several sh!ts in various forms of aircraft and vehicles dominating the server. I/O is far more from a group of complete noobs running around chucking nades, claymores, and reviving people. If you ever stepped out of your 24/7 Baserape the "grunts" server you would realize that. But, then again, the skill of I/O players would soon have you running back for jet, chopper, or tank.
Stop trying to pass off I/O players as noobs, I/O was brought into the game because of huge demand from elite infantry players forced to bad gameplay experience because maps were skewed against them.

Cheers

uhhh paragraphs.....

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

So, becuase he has worked and played and gained experience and skill he has an unfair advantage?

Some sarcasm-

"So, because he has worked and played and gained experience in a jet, its now considered an unfair adantage?"

1500 hours in infantry or in jets, it doesnt matter. Once that beast gets down to action, anyone on the opposing side of the barrel will be a non factor. In a PvP game where some have more free time than others, sh!t like this happen. MrBenis knows he can maul through a lot of infantry before they can put him down. I know I can do the same in the jet. I also know that I wasnt always as good as I am now (or was when I played regularly). It took me a long time to reach that point. And since 95% of BF2 population is a non factor for me, you and I can both blame it on my experience.

You can come from that angle, but what you are saying is that he has an unfair advantage becuase he is better than them. But that is his personal skill level, not the advantages of the vehicle he is using.

How come? You sound extremely hypocrite if you will not consider his superiority in more free time and dedication. A jet is a force multiplier, which means its only common sense that it will eat infantry. So its only natural that it takes less time to achieve great results in flight, than playing infantry. You cant change that fact. Or else you need a game where vehicles are for style only. Oh wait... BF2142 was that game. I remember when I first logged on, there wasnt a single vehicle I couldnt take down on my own. And I was just a few hours in the game. I actually played with Lugal and some other SoBF guys.

You seem to stuff J-10 into my mouth whenever I say jets, I am saying jets and choppers and used the J-10 specifically once. And, again when I used the J-10 as an example where did I say Wake? Nowhere. don't put words into people's mouths to fit your arguements Chris.

Flying around in a J-10 raping the carrier and flags... Tell me where the balance is in that? No manner of skill with a base kit (unless you can shoot people out of jet moving at 900 MPH with an M95) allows you to take down that J-10. Instead you are forced to have your entire team commit to getting into stationary AA vehicles which are easily evaded and very easy to bomb (they are in STATIONARY positions). Except for 4 people in the jet and 8 people in choppers the rest of the server gets to spend their time attempting to survive the onslaught of air attacks while trying to cap a single ****ing flag.

Your quote. You put words in my mouth and used the extreme example of inbalance. Dont be a d!ck and stand up for what you said. Otherwise its just a waste of time trying to talk any sense down to you.

Vehichles offer the person in the vehicle a safe and deadly platform from which noobs and skilled players in the vehicle alike can easily rack up kills and destroy people who did not get a vehicle in the initial rush for them at the beginning of the round.

Fundamental flaw, proven each day on the field. Newbies in vehicles will be taken care of anyone with more experience. Take a newbie in a chopper- hell most likely going to crash. Take a newbie in a jet, hes my cannon target practice. Take a newbie in armor- oh man, easy kills.

Unless youre a newbie yourself, its time for you to wake up, man up and stop overdramatizing the issue.

I do not deny that it takes skill to evade other jets or choppers in air. But you have at the maximum 2 enemies that can take you down.

That maximum of 2 being other jets that feel threatened by enemy air. Add anyone willing to spend their time in STA and youll get a whooping 100% guaranteed air coverage in your favour. But there is no such person. There are whiners who would rather start a kickvote than actually do something about it. Those whiners would also rather play in IO for easier points with no threats to deal with.

Try facing the threat of 32 enemies in infantry combat.

Oh please. If facing 32 players in INF combat was so damn hard, people wouldnt run to IO mode.

Baseraping and easily dominating infantry and weaker vehicles may seem fun when you hop in your trusty vehicle every round. Glad you like racking up the points and the kills, while making everyone else suffer deaths and near flag captures.

I dont fly for points. I fly for my teams vehicles survival, flag security and I try to make my teams infantrys life easier. I fly to do my best, that they would feel the presence of armor and air as little as possible, so they can do their work in the best environment possible. The fact that you like to statpadd in your little, sad IO world, is beaten in advance by the fact that my server search has RANKED box unticked. I dont look for kills, I dont look for PTS. You guys have that priviledge of whineage and scorejealousy. I dont need that. I can suck, and usually do suck in a pisspoor manner on the ground, but I do what I can do so the team wins.

Sure you can hide behind cover whenever a jet flys by. But that is forcing players to base thier entire gameplay on avoiding 2 enemies.

Bull. You only need to hide once you neutralize a flag, for 10 seconds, avoid the first drop of missiles and cap a flag. Its really that easy. You should apply common sense and intelligence into your gameplay next time.

You are going to make the jet or chopper run away with a missile? Sure, why not, then they come back in 20 seconds later and unload some Hydras or 200 rounds of 20 mike-mike on you.

Thats 20 seconds time you bought to your team to finish their fight and cap the flag. Those 20 seconds, which MAY end with your death as an only death, are invaluable. You want to talk about fun? Those 20 seconds meant fun for your teams infantry. Apply more people who would waste 20 seconds and youll get only 2 people who are not having fun... the pilots.

Again, when you talk about mobile AA's you are taking it from the point of view of someone who spends the entire round getting into a concealed position to take 3 or 4 jets over the course of the round.

Jets, attack and transport choppers, aswell as infantry. Sounds like a whole damn table has been served.

You basically hit the nail on the head, there are less vehicles, but they have more power than the infantry- who are doing the work. Must be enjoyable for those infantry on a vehicle map doing all the work while a minority group of players with superior advantages rakes up the kills and the points all round.

GTFO of this thread, statpadder. Ive come to the same conclusion every time Ive had this kind of argument. The only people who oppose me will end up displaying that they are truly only jealous of the score and kills. Youre not any different.

What you are describing and promoting is a game where an elite group of players secure superior weaponry and protection every round to destroy weaker groups of players trying to capture and defend flags. Might be your perfect game, seeing as you get the superiority every round. Nobody else ends up having fun.

But they do. 31 people on my team are having fun because they can do what they do best. Kill, kill, kill. I play for the team.

As for the general picture. Dieing is a part of the game. If you smash your keyboard every time a jet bomb hits you, you should find a new hobby. I dont see a death from a jet any different than a death from a gun. The difference in general is, that you need to severely fvck up to die from a jet as they bomb target AREAS.

And you could say that people could get the jets and choppers themselves.

No I dont say that. But they could indeed. How they get it, is none of my business.

I/O allows people to play infantry without the constant threat of several sh!ts in various forms of aircraft and vehicles dominating the server. I/O is far more from a group of complete noobs running around chucking nades, claymores, and reviving people.

No. Its just a safe heaven for those who want to padd on weak grunts without any force multiplier stopping them. How ironic.

If you ever stepped out of your 24/7 Baserape the "grunts" server you would realize that. But, then again, the skill of I/O players would soon have you running back for jet, chopper, or tank.

"Skill in IO players"... rofflwaffles. Dont give yourself too much credit. If you had the skill you preach of, you wouldnt be in IO. Im a bad grunt. Assault KDR barely holding the 2:1 mark. I dont go for jets because I dont want to die. I go for jets because theres noone competent enough to do the job. That should give you the worst truth and the best insight about your ignorance.

Stop trying to pass off I/O players as noobs, I/O was brought into the game because of huge demand from elite infantry players forced to bad gameplay experience because maps were skewed against them.

Didnt fool me there, Sheriff. IO was brought in as it was demanded by players who would much more whine about vehicles, than deal with them.

[SyDuS]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

i have rarely stepped in a vehicle of late, except for fast moving buggies, as a squad leader going from flag to flag on tank heavy maps with my trust eryx, maps like armored fury, and they game has never been more enjoyable teaching those that choose the tanks/apcs/choppers why getting in them in the first place is a bad idea.

[DesertFalcon]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

Stop trying to pass off I/O players as noobs, I/O was brought into the game because of huge demand from elite infantry players forced to bad gameplay experience because maps were skewed against them.

An "Elite" Infantry player would be able to either avoid armor,jets, and helos when neccesary or be able to take them down. The game was not meant to make infantry even with all vehicles thats not how it works in the real world odds are a battle is going to involve armor. Bf2 without Vehicles is like ceral without milk.

Jets>Helos
Jets>Tanks
Jets>Infantry
Helos>Tanks
Helos>Infantry
Tanks>Infantry

^Got a problem with that then your a noob

[ichangedmyname]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

---Chris "Some sarcasm-

"So, because he has worked and played and gained experience in a jet, its now considered an unfair adantage?"

1500 hours in infantry or in jets, it doesnt matter. Once that beast gets down to action, anyone on the opposing side of the barrel will be a non factor. In a PvP game where some have more free time than others, sh!t like this happen. MrBenis knows he can maul through a lot of infantry before they can put him down. I know I can do the same in the jet. I also know that I wasnt always as good as I am now (or was when I played regularly). It took me a long time to reach that point. And since 95% of BF2 population is a non factor for me, you and I can both blame it on my experience.

How come? You sound extremely hypocrite if you will not consider his superiority in more free time and dedication. A jet is a force multiplier, which means its only common sense that it will eat infantry. So its only natural that it takes less time to achieve great results in flight, than playing infantry. You cant change that fact. Or else you need a game where vehicles are for style only. Oh wait... BF2142 was that game. I remember when I first logged on, there wasnt a single vehicle I couldnt take down on my own. And I was just a few hours in the game. I actually played with Lugal and some other SoBF guys."Chris---

A jet is a force multiplier and it IS easier to achieve great results in a jet than on the ground. I/O players may have their advantage of experience, but any jet pilot STARTS OFF with an advantage of the jet being a force mulitplier. Add to that any experience they get and things are completely skewed. And why do you start talking about BF2142 Chris? You say you can take down any vehicle very quickly in BF2142, thats great, I am proud of you. However we are talking about vehicles in BF2 which are nowhere near as easy to take down. Your own post clearly states how jets are superior to start and only get more so as the pilot gains experience.


Chris---"Your quote. You put words in my mouth and used the extreme example of inbalance. Dont be a d!ck and stand up for what you said. Otherwise its just a waste of time trying to talk any sense down to you."---Chris

I said J-10 once and you made it into Wake, I said jets and you made it J-10. You simply exagerrate and twist what is said.


Chris---"Fundamental flaw, proven each day on the field. Newbies in vehicles will be taken care of anyone with more experience. Take a newbie in a chopper- hell most likely going to crash. Take a newbie in a jet, hes my cannon target practice. Take a newbie in armor- oh man, easy kills."---Chris

Sure, you can say that. But although a skilled player in a vehicle can take down noobs in other vehicles that said noob still can take down infantry. You don't need skill to have a 1-1 K/D in vehicles. You start off with an advantage. I have never seen a newbie in I/O have a 2-1 K/D, (and do not say nadespammers or claywhores, they are dumba$$es but not newbies) but I have seen plenty of noobs in vehicles go 2-1 over a round.

Chris---"Unless youre a newbie yourself, its time for you to wake up, man up and stop overdramatizing the issue."---Chris

Overdramatizing? It is called having a debate/arguement. You are always engaged in one yourself.


Chris---"That maximum of 2 being other jets that feel threatened by enemy air. Add anyone willing to spend their time in STA and youll get a whooping 100% guaranteed air coverage in your favour. But there is no such person. There are whiners who would rather start a kickvote than actually do something about it. Those whiners would also rather play in IO for easier points with no threats to deal with."---Chris

Exactly, all you do have is the two jets. Thanks for agreeing, your right, no one bothers sitting on some crap AA waiting to be bombed or strafe by a jet. They could, they might damage the air and get a couple of kills. But it just is not practical or fun for someone to be playing AA all round just to worry about 2 jets. You seem to think that on vehicle maps it is dangerous to be in a jet because if people wanted to everyone on the server could devote their entire round to downing aircraft.



Chris---"Oh please. If facing 32 players in INF combat was so damn hard, people wouldnt run to IO mode. "---Chris

And you would know? How would facing 32 enemies not be hard? You think just because people enjoy something it is easy. Maybe that is how you think, but that is not how everyone thinks.


Chris---" I dont fly for points. I fly for my teams vehicles survival, flag security and I try to make my teams infantrys life easier. I fly to do my best, that they would feel the presence of armor and air as little as possible, so they can do their work in the best environment possible. The fact that you like to statpadd in your little, sad IO world, is beaten in advance by the fact that my server search has RANKED box unticked. I dont look for kills, I dont look for PTS. You guys have that priviledge of whineage and scorejealousy. I dont need that. I can suck, and usually do suck in a pisspoor manner on the ground, but I do what I can do so the team wins."---Chris

I don't care if you in particular do not fly for points or uncheck ranked. You might not have realized it with your huge ego, but you are not the only jet player in the world. Statpad? Please, I/O isn't statpadding. People who can not thrive in I/O call it that so they have a reason to call people who do thrive in it noobs.


Chris---"Bull. You only need to hide once you neutralize a flag, for 10 seconds, avoid the first drop of missiles and cap a flag. Its really that easy. You should apply common sense and intelligence into your gameplay next time."---Chris


Two-five bombs, scores of 20mm cannon fire, and if there is a chopper a sustained attack from a chain gun and rockets? And artillery and tanks rolling up... Not just a quick missile drop and then the jet says lad-di-da catch you next round.


Chris---"Thats 20 seconds time you bought to your team to finish their fight and cap the flag. Those 20 seconds, which MAY end with your death as an only death, are invaluable. You want to talk about fun? Those 20 seconds meant fun for your teams infantry. Apply more people who would waste 20 seconds and youll get only 2 people who are not having fun... the pilots."---Chris

Again, Chris, you have this steadfast belief in people basing their entire game around the whims and advantages of pilots/jets. 62 people could sacrifice themselves and go to extreme measures to annihalate air forces from the ground. When a jet sweeps through, strafes you up on the AA, and unloads their bombs on your team's infantry capping the flag all you get is a jet whore gaining a few more of his precious points.


Chris---"Jets, attack and transport choppers, aswell as infantry. Sounds like a whole damn table has been served."---Chris

Yeah, that concealed, perfect position from which you can dominate the server in a mobile AA. Those are just everywhere man! What the hell are you talking about Chris? When has a player in mobile AA ever had a feast that big to eat? One round in their entire BF2 career?


Chris---"GTFO of this thread, statpadder. Ive come to the same conclusion every time Ive had this kind of argument. The only people who oppose me will end up displaying that they are truly only jealous of the score and kills. Youre not any different."---Chris

You are so right! The only vile scum who would dare oppose you are villians who deserver to be reset and hardware banned for playing what they think is fun! I am not jealous of your kills and points, I am telling it like it is. 90%+ of jet/chopper pilots fly for points and kill, not to help their infantry cap flags.

Chris---"But they do. 31 people on my team are having fun because they can do what they do best. Kill, kill, kill. I play for the team."---Chris

Becuase you are raping the other team it allows your team to have fun. The other team is not having fun, and I doubt your team is having fun slogging around on the ground trying to cap flags while some damned jet whore buzzes around raping up targets.

Chris---"As for the general picture. Dieing is a part of the game. If you smash your keyboard every time a jet bomb hits you, you should find a new hobby. I dont see a death from a jet any different than a death from a gun. The difference in general is, that you need to severely fvck up to die from a jet as they bomb target AREAS."---Chris

Dying is part of the game. You can die in I/O to ya know. I do not get pissed when I jet kills me. However, dying from a gun is a personal engagement where you can directly influence the outcome by your ability to kill the enemy, not by your ability to evade the enemy.


Chris---"No I dont say that. But they could indeed. How they get it, is none of my business."---Chris

That is good that you don't say it. They could sit their all round trying to get in, but then where would the grunts capturing the flags be?


Chris---"No. Its just a safe heaven for those who want to padd on weak grunts without any force multiplier stopping them. How ironic."---Chris

This almost made me laugh. Is everyone padding on weak grunts and a weak grunt at the same time? It is people who are skilled and people who are becoming skilled by playing better players of the same type. All jet whores like you do is double force multiply: abilities of a jet x experience/skill= ability to rape on all weaker players without either one or the other of those two factors. It takes skill sure, but there is another advantage there too.


Chris---" "Skill in IO players"... rofflwaffles. Dont give yourself too much credit. If you had the skill you preach of, you wouldnt be in IO. Im a bad grunt. Assault KDR barely holding the 2:1 mark. I dont go for jets because I dont want to die. I go for jets because theres noone competent enough to do the job. That should give you the worst truth and the best insight about your ignorance."---Chris

There is no skill in a player because they play a different style than you? That is just straight up and down ignorant. Any decent I/O player would destroy you in infantry combat (and you would destroy me in jet to jet, yet I do not call you a noob). This almost exactly reminds me of rascism. People are different so they are obviously nowhere near as good. Great attitude Chris. Stop making fun of people with a different skill set.

Chris---"Didnt fool me there, Sheriff. IO was brought in as it was demanded by players who would much more whine about vehicles, than deal with them."---Chris

I/O was brought in by players who enjoy a different type of combat than you do.

Cheers

[MrBenis]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

As I said, a person can be good IN a vehicle, but if they are a good player then they won't use it. By common consensus, it is the infantry who ultimately decide the fate of a map, right? Then why not be a part of that deciding factor?

I play infantry in vehicle servers because I focus on the objective of capping flags.. I accept that when I join a vehicle server, I'll be lucky if my KDR is >1, but that just comes part and partial to combatting people who sit at 200m shooting me with infinite bullets and some 30 tank shells.

I, also, and amazingly enough, enjoy being in AA. SAM or MAA it doesn't matter.

@RED: I have enough time under my belt, and enough witnessed experience to tell you that missles don't go through flares. They don't hard-lock. Fact is, 80% of the missles I shoot miss or never lock in the first place. Out of 4 missles from a linebacker, I praise allah if even TWO actually connect. When the essex is concerned, I'll play commander and drop 3-4 supply boxes next to it, guaranteeing an infinite number of missles, because like, that's the only way the essex ever hits a target.

And finally, I don't know what version of BF2 you are playing, because seriously AA drops off at 300/325 (it depends on the map) and TVGM is 500m. In terms of outright destructive potential, that 1 second lock time is still too long. Make it insta-lock and I might actually be able to shoot down even a JSF for once.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 50 things you miss about BF2

As I said, a person can be good IN a vehicle, but if they are a good player then they won't use it. By common consensus, it is the infantry who ultimately decide the fate of a map, right? Then why not be a part of that deciding factor?

To play out of the sense of the mission of just for fun? I did nothing but fly jets for months when the game was released. Flying was that much fun. When I started playing infantry, I didnt play IO. I played the same game I played from above, a game I paid for.

@RED: I have enough time under my belt, and enough witnessed experience to tell you that missles don't go through flares. They don't hard-lock. Fact is, 80% of the missles I shoot miss or never lock in the first place. Out of 4 missles from a linebacker, I praise allah if even TWO actually connect. When the essex is concerned, I'll play commander and drop 3-4 supply boxes next to it, guaranteeing an infinite number of missles, because like, that's the only way the essex ever hits a target.

Lock on flares, shoot them. I have about 20-30% hit probability, occasionally spiking up. Missiles will go for anything once they pass the flares. Its usually the same object that dropped the flares in the first place. It doesnt even need any practice, just go for it.


[/quote]And finally, I don't know what version of BF2 you are playing, because seriously AA drops off at 300/325 (it depends on the map) and TVGM is 500m. In terms of outright destructive potential, that 1 second lock time is still too long. Make it insta-lock and I might actually be able to shoot down even a JSF for once.[/quote]

I just checked the files, and while I couldnt find anything on the TVGM (there was a number that didnt make any sense, distance was set to 9999), I will stick to what DICE officially announced and what I found out in one of the previous patches (1.4 probably, but after DICE cut the TVGM from 600), the number was 450 metres. I also found this, both from IGLA and Stingers-

ObjectTemplate.target.maxDistance 450
ObjectTemplate.target.targetSystem TSHeatSeeking
ObjectTemplate.target.lockDelay 0.7

As you can see, DICE has indeed changed the STA sites for faster locking and better coverage somewhere between 1.3 and 1.41. My guess is that its a change made in 1.41.

A jet is a force multiplier and it IS easier to achieve great results in a jet than on the ground. I/O players may have their advantage of experience, but any jet pilot STARTS OFF with an advantage of the jet being a force mulitplier.

Please, have you ever seen a jet pilot get past 1:1 KDR in a jet while they start off for the first time in their life? And choppers? Theres no such thing.

And why do you start talking about BF2142 Chris? You say you can take down any vehicle very quickly in BF2142, thats great, I am proud of you. However we are talking about vehicles in BF2 which are nowhere near as easy to take down. Your own post clearly states how jets are superior to start and only get more so as the pilot gains experience.

I brought in an example about a game thats vehicle aspect was nerfed significantly both in firepower and originality because the infantry players in BF2. Dont get all wet because of it. And quote me on where I have ever stated otherwise, than jets being superior. Of course they are. They are jets! You expect a 50:50 chance against one. Im not that delusional. When Im infantry, Im running and hiding. Thats what youre supposed to do.

I said J-10 once and you made it into Wake, I said jets and you made it J-10. You simply exagerrate and twist what is said.

Do I need to re-analyze your quote again, or will we stop at me calling you a hypocritical liar? Heres what you wrote.

Flying around in a J-10 raping the carrier and flags... Tell me where the balance is in that? No manner of skill with a base kit (unless you can shoot people out of jet moving at 900 MPH with an M95) allows you to take down that J-10. Instead you are forced to have your entire team commit to getting into stationary AA vehicles which are easily evaded and very easy to bomb (they are in STATIONARY positions). Except for 4 people in the jet and 8 people in choppers the rest of the server gets to spend their time attempting to survive the onslaught of air attacks while trying to cap a single ****ing flag.

Sure, you can say that. But although a skilled player in a vehicle can take down noobs in other vehicles that said noob still can take down infantry. You don't need skill to have a 1-1 K/D in vehicles. You start off with an advantage. I have never seen a newbie in I/O have a 2-1 K/D, (and do not say nadespammers or claywhores, they are dumba$$es but not newbies) but I have seen plenty of noobs in vehicles go 2-1 over a round.

Heres a hint. Apart from jet pilots, I wasnt talking about vehicles at all. With my vast underexperience on the ground, I can take down any newbie in armor while playing AT. And I can play games with a chopper in a FAV (or STA). I can even challenge a jet alone with an STA and I can take them out without contest with the Mobile STA. Its where the oppositions skill in their area exceeds mine in my area, where I start to fail. And I dont put up a tantrum, because its simply the way of a PvP game where ones are bound to be better than others.

Overdramatizing? It is called having a debate/arguement. You are always engaged in one yourself.

This is not a debate, this is an argument. You were overdramatizing the issue for your argument to have a better impact.

Exactly, all you do have is the two jets. Thanks for agreeing, your right, no one bothers sitting on some crap AA waiting to be bombed or strafe by a jet. They could, they might damage the air and get a couple of kills. But it just is not practical or fun for someone to be playing AA all round just to worry about 2 jets. You seem to think that on vehicle maps it is dangerous to be in a jet because if people wanted to everyone on the server could devote their entire round to downing aircraft.

Its not fun, and for a newbie its not practical indeed. Ive said it numerous times that the failure of STA doesnt come from its impotency, as some of us have surpassed the 2:1 KDR mark in them. The failure of STA comes from the fact that they are not fun to use. I can guarantee that a player with 1500 hours in STA will have superiority over a pilot with less experience in their jets. If skills are matched however, jets will have an upper hand. One should also remember that alone- STA sites are defensive weaponry only.

And you would know? How would facing 32 enemies not be hard? You think just because people enjoy something it is easy. Maybe that is how you think, but that is not how everyone thinks.

I didnt want to leave an impression that I thought it was EASY per se. I wanted to leave an impression that I know its easier than playing in a vehicular server.

I don't care if you in particular do not fly for points or uncheck ranked. You might not have realized it with your huge ego, but you are not the only jet player in the world. Statpad? Please, I/O isn't statpadding. People who can not thrive in I/O call it that so they have a reason to call people who do thrive in it noobs.

My ego becomes as huge as is the ignorance of my opposition . If your arguments were so solid that they would humble me, youd see no ego at all.
And IO is a legalized form of statpadding. Remember when people used to be wiped when they played in IO servers?

Two-five bombs, scores of 20mm cannon fire, and if there is a chopper a sustained attack from a chain gun and rockets? And artillery and tanks rolling up... Not just a quick missile drop and then the jet says lad-di-da catch you next round.

You can evade bombs, artillery and cannon fire from a jet because 2 of them are dropped and fired on ASSUMPTION where the enemy is, while one has a 15 second delay (or 10?). The only real threat to you is the chopper, and its the most powerful weapon on the battlefield aswell. You should have an easy time evading jets unless youre in a vehicle. I know I can evade a jet all day if Im at a flag Im assaulting. And Im inexperienced on the ground, unlike you. So how is it so hard for you?

Again, Chris, you have this steadfast belief in people basing their entire game around the whims and advantages of pilots/jets. 62 people could sacrifice themselves and go to extreme measures to annihalate air forces from the ground. When a jet sweeps through, strafes you up on the AA, and unloads their bombs on your team's infantry capping the flag all you get is a jet whore gaining a few more of his precious points.

As I said, you need to have a minimum of 1-2 players to piss a jet pilot completely off to cut his efficiency in half. Anything with 2 or past that will make the pilot concentrate on them, effectively exposing himself numerous times (with correct STA technique, pilots can fly around destroying STA sites for rounds without gaining kills on their operators). Thats 30 players without the fear of jets. And if a jet catches you while you take down a flag, its you who messed up. Remember that theres a commander voice telling everyone when a flag gets neutralized. I ALWAYS get to that flag first. Would it be helpful to tell you how I operate so you can increase your chances of survival or will me just stomping your arguments be enough?

Yeah, that concealed, perfect position from which you can dominate the server in a mobile AA. Those are just everywhere man! What the hell are you talking about Chris? When has a player in mobile AA ever had a feast that big to eat? One round in their entire BF2 career?

It all comes with experience. But mostly it boils down to finding a spot similar to a funnel where youve got an overview of a particulara area in the sky while they have a narrow approach to you. Buildings work great aswell. Ive had a feast, choppers would be the main course. Jets are the delicacy, but not a rare target. 4 missiles through the flares if they try to dive and get out, out of which 1 is bound to hit. If he comes back, its going to take him at least 30 seconds to reload the flares. Change of position to flank that spot, and hes toast. Nothing too hard. Always have a plan and you will be successful. This does require experience.

You are so right! The only vile scum who would dare oppose you are villians who deserver to be reset and hardware banned for playing what they think is fun! I am not jealous of your kills and points, I am telling it like it is. 90%+ of jet/chopper pilots fly for points and kill, not to help their infantry cap flags.

If you would think its just "fun". You would have said so, and we wouldnt have had this argument in the first place. Its your guilty pleasure youre trying to defend, and Im trying to assault.

Becuase you are raping the other team it allows your team to have fun. The other team is not having fun, and I doubt your team is having fun slogging around on the ground trying to cap flags while some damned jet whore buzzes around raping up targets.

Oh god. :laugh: . The other team will die anyway. Whats the difference whether they get killed by a jet or by you? With me, they had a chance to evade the attack. With infantry players, skill will always prevail and they wil have a small chance of ditching you. Theres no fun in getting killed anyway, so your argument is kind of odd to say the least.

Dying is part of the game. You can die in I/O to ya know. I do not get pissed when I jet kills me. However, dying from a gun is a personal engagement where you can directly influence the outcome by your ability to kill the enemy, not by your ability to evade the enemy.

That all comes down to your inability that some things in this game cannot be killed when youre illequipped and illexperienced to make your stand against them. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you will prevail on the battlefield.

This almost made me laugh. Is everyone padding on weak grunts and a weak grunt at the same time? It is people who are skilled and people who are becoming skilled by playing better players of the same type. All jet whores like you do is double force multiply: abilities of a jet x experience/skill= ability to rape on all weaker players without either one or the other of those two factors. It takes skill sure, but there is another advantage there too.

A jet is representing the top of the food chain. The RPS balance only works when teamwork is applied against it. And you got the force multiplier right, I hope youll accept one day that Vehicles will always be more powerful and harder to deal with than you. Youre a grunt, what do you expect? I expect nothing from myself when I am playing a medic kit and hiding from an APC. Its a part of the game.

There is no skill in a player because they play a different style than you? That is just straight up and down ignorant. Any decent I/O player would destroy you in infantry combat (and you would destroy me in jet to jet, yet I do not call you a noob). This almost exactly reminds me of rascism. People are different so they are obviously nowhere near as good. Great attitude Chris. Stop making fun of people with a different skill set.

I know Im a newbie in infantry combat. No illusions. Which is why I dont expect much and I dont put up any tantrums when a vehicle gets me. Most deaths frm vehicles are from my own fault anyway.

I/O was brought in by players who enjoy a different type of combat than you do.

Yup, just like K&P players :)