PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

[Hurricane.CAD]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

My question to all the anti-macroers: why the hell do you care? Saying that macros are ruining this game is complete and utter crap. Macros and hacks are not runing this game, so stop deluding yourselves into that. All it is, is that you know that macros are possible. You know what they can do. And you know they're readily available with a quick google search (this also applies to hacks). So when you see someone do something similar to what a macro does, you think "hmm given that anyone can get a macro he must be macroing! Nevermind he could be very fast, it's gotta be a macro!". Then you spend hours on end arguing on an internet forum about it.

The only place macros matter are in competitive play, and macros ARE obvious when they're used (I'm talkin stuff like Volx's dive macro, not a J2K macro that clicks for you when you hit a button to bring up the commo rose). So just send a BRecorder file to your friendly match admin and they'll take a look at it. But in pub play just stop thinking the game is riddled with hacks and play. This isn't CS.

[sassback]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

^^wow, you must not have have read the previous post. he put it more clearly and thoroughly than i ever could. if you dont see a problem with macros and hackers than you are part of the problem.

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

disfigured i :salute: :salute: :salute: u .. well put!

Hurricane.CAD u my friend are a bit lost on this

sassback said it "^^wow, you must not have have read the previous post. he put it more clearly and thoroughly than i ever could. if you dont see a problem with macros and hackers than you are part of the problem."

talking about this is only gonna generate more ppl to talk about it and get this to b noticed by the community as a problem, not a way to game. i have been playing bf2 sence it came out and actively play. i was unaware of anything goin on untill just recently and was in complete disgust. after researching this just a bit i found out that this has been goin on for a long time and nothing has been done about it and looks like right now nothing can b done. i hope this will help in some way to generate more eyes on this issue cause it needs serious attention.

[sassback]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

^^ a round of applause ladies and gents. i wish more people would acknowledge this. unfortunately nothing will or can be done. all types of tech support for BF2 are officially dead in the water. i really dont think anyone at PB or in the ROE is going to take action either. if things such as clarifying existing rules are too much of a hassle then i dont see a fix in the near future.

[{HHx}b14ze]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

{HHx}b14ze - I don't know you, and I'm pretty sure you don't know me either. I don't consider using my Nostromo as cheating. Others (you) might see it differently, and thats fine. But where will the line be drawn? Will someone just having a program loaded on his PC draw a ban?!? Even if it's not being used for anything in BF2? How will they determine that?

*Edit: OH, and compare my little Medic bag tosser to those actual CHEATS. PB can't catch them, so go after someone else. I suppose they have a quota to fill and they certainly aren't catching the real hacks.

Yup you are right. I don't know you. I do know that you admitted to using macros, and in my eyes that is cheating. You can sugar coat what you do all you want (carpel tunnel), and most cheaters, especially those who are caught ALWAYS have an excuse.

Don't get me wrong, im not singling you out. Admitting that you use macros, should at least tell you, that those comments alone are going to ignite flames.

Speaking of me not knowing you... you are right. Never met you. I can tell you straight up that that is how i play. Straight up. This subject may be a grey area, but in reality it goes like this: I tell you I play straight up. You tell us you use macros. You have an unfair advantage over me by playing the game a way it wasn't intended to be played. How will we ever know who is really telling the truth, unless we are right in front of thier pc's, doing searches for hacks...

I guess now that i KNOW that you use macros i have two choices. Whine about it, or leave the server I see you in because i know that you have an unfair advantage over me.

[DosX]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Well, technically, I use macro. One...

Switch to medic bag, toss one, switch back to weapon.

Guilty as charged. If they target Nostromo gear and I'm unable to use it any longer, then I'll just find a new game.

Sorry that you'll be leaving any game I'm in. I'm a very good medic, a real team player. Not the evil macro bot hack that you're portraying me to be.

But answer this. I use a Nostromo. Lets say I don't use any macros, but simply map the keyboard commands to the Nostromo. No key delays or multiple keystrokes, anything like that. Well I still need the Nostromo software to map the single keystrokes to the device. Will I be banned for it's use? Even though I am using absolutely no macros? Ban based just on me having the software loaded?

Seems a bit like charging someone with murder because they own a gun.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

f they target Nostromo gear and I'm unable to use it any longer, then I'll just find a new game.

Sniffles!

A macro is a macro DosX. It doesn't matter if you use a macro to switch to a bag, toss it out and switch back to your primary or a Volx style complicated evasive movement exploitation macro. Both are macros that automate functions that every other player has to do normally.

When us legitimate players want to throw out a bag for example we reach up and hit the key that readies the bag, we click the fire button to throw the kit and then we hit the key that returns us to primary weapon. So let's say I want health... I go for my medic bag key... oops I accidentally hit shock paddles instead and now I'm standing with the wrong item out and I don't get the health I need and I die, or I switch to my knife instead of my rifle and get gunned down defenseless as a result. Sometimes I'm slow pulling out and throwing the bag while a macro has millisecond perfect timing and never fails.

I'm human and I make mistakes while a macro does not. We can go on and on but fact is part of being a good infantry player (medic especially) is handling your inventory and handling it in a fact and efficient manner. If switching to a bag, throwing it out and switching back to your weapon is so hard why did you feel compelled to spend the time making macro for it in the first place? Only logical reason would be to gain an edge (however slight) over your opponents. It seems like only a minor advantage and it most certainly is but again a macro is a macro and DICE has a clear zero tolerance policy against cheating and that includes macroing.

I'm not asking for all macros to be banned on sight without warning and I'd be perfectly happy with punkbuster giving you an annoying yet otherwise harmless kick out of the game server you're playing on.

[Batausu]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

... So let's say I want health... I go for my medic bag key... oops I accidentally hit shock paddles instead and now I'm standing with the wrong item out and I don't get the health I need and I die, or I switch to my knife instead of my rifle and get gunned down defenseless as a result.

So true!
That's why I don't play medic too often. I do it occasionally, but this switching back and forth is always getting me killed. I prefer to go AT, as I have my multi purpose rocket.
Perhaps I should buy a little help?!

[DosX]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

If switching to a bag, throwing it out and switching back to your weapon is so hard why did you feel compelled to spend the time making macro for it in the first place? Only logical reason would be to gain an edge (however slight) over your opponents.

Actually, since you asked, it wasn't to "gain an advantage" over anyone. It was to simplify a process. I can see your (and others) viewpoint regarding this. I could (and might) just map the 5, Left Click and 3 keys to my Nostromo on seperate keys. Then I'd have to press three things just like people not using macros. I'd still be using the Nostromo software, but no macro's. Will I be kicked then?

Oh, but then I would be mapping a mouse click to a key, and since people without the Nostromo software can't do that, I'd be using an unfair advantage?

On another note - I'm having my doubts that anything at all will be done regarding Nostromo, G15's, MX518's etc.... because they are hardware and the macros are accessable through the hardwares programs.

I don't imagine EA wants PunkBuster sending this letter....

Dear Logitech (Belkin, Razor, etc...)

I regret to inform you that people who have purchased your products will no longer be able to use them to play games protected by PunkBuster. Your macro capabilities create an unfair advantage for users of your products. Be advised that anyone using your product (with your included software) risks being permanently banned from playing any of the following games:

America's Army
Battlefield 1942
Battlefield 2
Battlefield Vietnam
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
DOOM 3
Enemy Territory
Far Cry
F.E.A.R.
Prey
Quake III Arena
Quake 4
Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield
Rainbow Six 4: Lockdown
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Soldier of Fortune II
War Rock

Please advise your customers that when purchasing, and using your products, they risk permanent banishment from all of the above listed online multiplayer games.

Thank you,
PunkBuster

Oh and....

Sniffles!

Please don't make me out to be a whiner. Changing games isn't that big a deal to me. I prefer BF2 because there's no blood or gibs. My son is allowed to play it based on that fact. He will continue to play BF2 regardless of the status of Nostromo kicks. I, on the other hand (off color joke here), will be forced to switch games because I won't be able to play using the keyboard (because of the carpal, get the joke now? other hand? heh).

[ELI]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

I guess the key word is in the ROE description of this 3rd party software is UNFAIR. Who decides what is and is not an unfair advantage? Punkbuster? BFROE? DICE/EA?

Joysticks use software too. Are they to be kicked/banned as well?

[-=wKa=-Sauron]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

this is y i said this and the board makes it easier to do this cause of the design with the quick change keys to set up to 3 sets of 18 usable macros(this is y u would want one of these) thats what i meant when said built into the board sry if ther was some confusion.

wow I MEAN wow

i had found a thread in cal 12v12 open forums about this very thing and asked what was being done about it in the competition aspect of bf2 and i got a reply from a admin stating that CAL|AC is aware of such a problem but cant do anything about it(of course in many more words :p ). after about 25 flames and a few good posts buy some of the community the thread was suddenly just deleted. i guess CAL would like to just sweep this under the carpet and hope it just goes away :shock: . cause as long as this is a problem for legit gamers this should be discused as much as possible to hopefully bring this to a end

Just because you weren't included in the real conversation doesn't mean ppl didn't talk about it. Does it really make sense to go on and on about hacks and macros are bad? Remember, the folks over at CAL work for free, they don't have all the time in the world to fix ****ups by the game manufacturer and if they did I guarantee 90% of the pubbers wouldn't give a ****. This is EA/Dice and PBs problem. Get it through that thick skull of yours. Oh and btw, that thread was moved.

[delemorte]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Just because you weren't included in the real conversation doesn't mean ppl didn't talk about it. Does it really make sense to go on and on about hacks and macros are bad? Remember, the folks over at CAL work for free, they don't have all the time in the world to fix ****ups by the game manufacturer and if they did I guarantee 90% of the pubbers wouldn't give a ****. This is EA/Dice and PBs problem. Get it through that thick skull of yours. Oh and btw, that thread was moved.

Explain to me how much of their free time they spent in leaving a thread open for discussion on an issue that is still going on? I could see closing a thread about an issue in the 1.3 patch but thats lame to close a thread on a current issue no matter how old the issue is.

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Well, technically, I use macro. One...

Switch to medic bag, toss one, switch back to weapon.

Guilty as charged. If they target Nostromo gear and I'm unable to use it any longer, then I'll just find a new game.

Sorry that you'll be leaving any game I'm in. I'm a very good medic, a real team player. Not the evil macro bot hack that you're portraying me to be.

But answer this. I use a Nostromo. Lets say I don't use any macros, but simply map the keyboard commands to the Nostromo. No key delays or multiple keystrokes, anything like that. Well I still need the Nostromo software to map the single keystrokes to the device. Will I be banned for it's use? Even though I am using absolutely no macros? Ban based just on me having the software loaded?

Seems a bit like charging someone with murder because they own a gun.

so what ur saying is u cant physicaly do what ur macro does in a timely fashion b4 being KIA while doin it? you my friend are the reason why this is wrong. get ur lazy fingers off there duff and just do it in mid combat or......is it that u cant do it fast enough and u need a computer to do it for u? well the answer is right in front of u and u clearly dont want to see it. let me spell it out for u !!!!!!! H A X !!!!!!!!! !!!!! B S !!!!! !!!! N O T L E G I T !!! if u use one who is to say u wont use more cause ur too lazy to press the buttons required to do what u want.

Just because you weren't included in the real conversation doesn't mean ppl didn't talk about it. Does it really make sense to go on and on about hacks and macros are bad? Remember, the folks over at CAL work for free, they don't have all the time in the world to fix ****ups by the game manufacturer and if they did I guarantee 90% of the pubbers wouldn't give a ****. This is EA/Dice and PBs problem. Get it through that thick skull of yours. Oh and btw, that thread was moved.

nice to see u Sauron u macro lover lol its funny man even here u sound like a fool because u dont have all the facts. FACT this is goin on and ppl in the competitve leauge need to know..... FACT this was moved to a admin forum for archival not someplace any user can look at. FACT i was included in the real converstion and if memory serves me u were one of the 25 flametards just putting ur 2 cents worth in just boost ur ego or y u even post on forums cause its sure not to help this issue. Fact i didnt ask cal to create a fix for this problem i asked what was being done about it and CAL|ADMIN responed and let me know that ther is nothing they can do about. FACT if 90% of pubbers knew this was goin on ther would b a greater knowledge of this and mabey we might b able to find a fix for this.

[DosX]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

so what ur saying is u cant physicaly do what ur macro does in a timely fashion b4 being KIA while doin it? you my friend are the reason why this is wrong. get ur lazy fingers off there duff and just do it in mid combat or......is it that u cant do it fast enough and u need a computer to do it for u? well the answer is right in front of u and u clearly dont want to see it. let me spell it out for u !!!!!!! H A X !!!!!!!!! !!!!! B S !!!!! !!!! N O T L E G I T !!! if u use one who is to say u wont use more cause ur too lazy to press the buttons required to do what u want.

Uhm, no, thats not what I said at all. I've not mentioned anything other then using my medic bag tosser macro to simplify the process. Instead of three keys, I use one. It's no faster though it is more accurate (as mentioned).

BTW, whoever mentioned missing the medic bag and hitting the shock paddles instead... I'd suggest you NOT use the mouse wheel and use the number keys instead. Much less chance of missing.

In response to your (*Edit: Snowblind) ramblings above.... make me!

*Little update here. After a couple of negative replies to me using a single key to toss a medic bag, I decided to try it with three keystrokes.

I mapped the 5 (medic bag), the left mouse click (toss bag) and the 3 (primary weapon) to my Nostromo. I discovered that I could actually toss bags FASTER using three key presses then I could with my one key macro!

This prompted me to revisit my one key macro, where I adjusted the delays between keypresses and the delays between key down and up. Now I'm tossing bags with a single keystroke even faster then before!!

Thanks guys

[delemorte]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

This prompted me to revisit my one key macro, where I adjusted the delays between keypresses and the delays between key down and up. Now I'm tossing bags with a single keystroke even faster then before!! Thanks guys

Well at least something came from this thread... im glad your haxs are working better now...