PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

[Batausu]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

First let me say I'm not in favor, nor against using macros.
I think this is a personal preference. If someone feels the need to ease his in-game life, who are we to forbid it?!
Until recently, I had my 'parachute' key bind to default '9' key. This has caused my death more times then I care to remember.
BF2142 beta had some improvements over BF2, one of which being the ability to use just one key for both jump and open parachute. What a nice idea, I thought, so I did the changes in the 'controls' file and now I have one key ('space') for jumping and opening parachute. Could this be considered an exploit? Do I have an advantage over the others who still have to reach for '9' and often miss? Of course I have! But it's something anyone can do, at their own will. It's all down to personal preference.
Think about using a joystick to control a jet. Is this an advantage over the others who still use keyboard and mouse? Does it help your aiming and make you more accurate? Of course it does! But is it an exploit? I don't think so.

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

First let me say I'm not in favor, nor against using macros.
I think this is a personal preference. If someone feels the need to ease his in-game life, who are we to forbid it?!
Until recently, I had my 'parachute' key bind to default '9' key. This has caused my death more times then I care to remember.
BF2142 beta had some improvements over BF2, one of which being the ability to use just one key for both jump and open parachute. What a nice idea, I thought, so I did the changes in the 'controls' file and now I have one key ('space') for jumping and opening parachute. Could this be considered an exploit? Do I have an advantage over the others who still have to reach for '9' and often miss? Of course I have! But it's something anyone can do, at their own will. It's all down to personal preference.
Think about using a joystick to control a jet. Is this an advantage over the others who still use keyboard and mouse? Does it help your aiming and make you more accurate? Of course it does! But is it an exploit? I don't think so.

if it were being used to simply open ur chute when u jump off a building then fine but me personaly i would rather wait untill i was closer to the ground so im not a floating target its more about the use of them as DosX uses them to elliminate the use of 4 key hits vs the 1 or what about the helo pilots using them to help them to quick switch to tv gunner mode and fire a rocket and instead of clicking the mouse over and over again, they just hold it down while it simulates clicking and just move the mouse over to the target instead of clicking the mouse. with that u have elimated 7 to 10 button clicks into one. not saying that good helo pilots couldnt do this with practice but man it makes it alot easier to do so with just the push of one button and holding the mouse 1 down(or what ever ur fire button is)

[redrider]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

I am very impressed that so many people posted about this subject. Even more impressed at the number of people who want the game to be on a truly level playing field. When I say level playing field I mean we are all useing the same software and the only difference is a players skill at playing the game. Not thier skill at adding the right bit of programing so they can do things they other wise might be able to do anyway but only after several hours of practice! You do know what Practice is dont you?
Ill give an example, Last night one player on my team (EOF clan I think) and I held a flag, our last flag at the time, for about 10 minutes. While the rest of our team went to cap more flags. We did it with our skill and Knowledge of how to hide, defend, and evede death. You might be thinking "so what"? Well the so what was we held it, on foot, against about 6 to 8 enemy troops useing 3 APCs, one tank, one BlackHawk, and an attack chopper (USMC version).
I was impressed by the other players skill level and will try and get some more games in with this clan. When was the last time you played with a player like that. It doesnt happen often and thats also something a cheat or macro will never get you. You wont get that level of respect from useing bits of extra software.
Back to the main topic, what ever Dice or PB decides to do I hope they do it soon. Because at the point we are at in BF2 almost anything is better than what we have now. . . . . . . . . .Red

[Sorrenart]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Can anyone tell me what the advantageous macros are (not the exact macros, but what they do)?

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

best bet Sorrenart is GOOGLE posting anything here in detail might be considered bad:thatsbad:

Because at the point we are at in BF2 almost anything is better than what we have now. . . . . . . . . .Red

IDK about that man i love this game i just want it to b fair for all not easier for some.

[W_Parmenter]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

simplify a process? Doesn't an aimbot simplify the process of aiming? Your motives are irrelevant and the only thing that really matters is it (and all other macros) give you a clear advantage over players who don't use them. Don't try and spin it any other way DosX.

Furthermore...

I think you're confusing disallowing the macroing functions with disallowing the device entirely. My joystick for example has profiler software to tweak certain aspects but frankly I don't need or use it and the device works just fine without the software. Unless Nostromo absolutely needs the macroing software to function correctly on a basic level (and I highly doubt that) I don't see the problem with losing the macroing function other than you disliking the prospect of losing your "simplified" gameplay (as you put it).

But can PB know that you haven't used the profiler software? I use an X52, how would PB know if I had or hadn't loaded a profile?

[DosX]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

I have seen the light and it is PURE!

I have removed my evil bag tossing macro and replaced it with three keystrokes. I now hit as many keys as anyone else who plays this game and doesn't cheat by using macros!

Am I free from the threat of kicking/banning from PunkBuster? Now that I no longer have an advantage over other players, am I safe? How exactly does PunkBuster know that I'm reborn?!? Will I have to stop using my Nostromo now??

This worries me... How does PunkBuster know that my Nostromo software running is harmless now, free of any evil macros? How does PunkBuster know if someone is using their G15 with, or without macros? Their software is the same also?

One other possibility. That PunkBuster can NOT kick/ban based on hardware devices and software drivers (essentially the macro programs are drivers, the device won't function without it).

No matter - I have repented and am now cleansed of the evil that possessed me.
Thank you all...

*Edit: W_Parmenter - there's no way that PunkBuster can tell what is in your Nostromo profile without scanning the actual file itself. If the file is in your EA directory, then they can legally scan it. Thats because it falls under the EULA. The one you agreed to when you hit OK when you installed the program. They can also scan processes running, but those processes will just show the software and not profile loaded. The ONLY way they could possibly know that you have macros in your profile would be to scan the directory where the profile is located. That is VERY MUCH illegal.

[W_Parmenter]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

I have seen the light and it is PURE!

I have removed my evil bag tossing macro and replaced it with three keystrokes. I now hit as many keys as anyone else who plays this game and doesn't cheat by using macros!

Am I free from the threat of kicking/banning from PunkBuster? Now that I no longer have an advantage over other players, am I safe? How exactly does PunkBuster know that I'm reborn?!? Will I have to stop using my Nostromo now??

This worries me... How does PunkBuster know that my Nostromo software running is harmless now, free of any evil macros? How does PunkBuster know if someone is using their G15 with, or without macros? Their software is the same also?

One other possibility. That PunkBuster can NOT kick/ban based on hardware devices and software drivers (essentially the macro programs are drivers, the device won't function without it).

No matter - I have repented and am now cleansed of the evil that possessed me.
Thank you all...

*Edit: W_Parmenter - there's no way that PunkBuster can tell what is in your Nostromo profile without scanning the actual file itself. If the file is in your EA directory, then they can legally scan it. Thats because it falls under the EULA. The one you agreed to when you hit OK when you installed the program. They can also scan processes running, but those processes will just show the software and not profile loaded. The ONLY way they could possibly know that you have macros in your profile would be to scan the directory where the profile is located. That is VERY MUCH illegal.

Actually I was referring to my joystick but I also have an n52 so I'm in the same boat as you. And to make matters worse my mouse is a Razer so if all my macro-capable devices are disallowed I'm basically reduced to text based adventure games. :p

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Actually I was referring to my joystick but I also have an n52 so I'm in the same boat as you. And to make matters worse my mouse is a Razer so if all my macro-capable devices are disallowed I'm basically reduced to text based adventure games. :p

i dont think they can ban a device they would screw them selfs but most of the uber geeks in this thread have a couple of good ideas on how to stop this. read up

I have seen the light and it is PURE!

GJ :yay: the real question is........are ur fingers up to the challenge of saving ur mates in battle. im lookin foward to finding out :)

[delemorte]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

The difference is that nostromo and J2K have legitimate uses. If EA/DICE would do their job the illegitimate uses would be eliminated without denying people access to the legit ones.

Dont get me wrong. I am a network engineer and use macros and scripts on a daily basis that make my life alot easier. im not saying you cant have this software or any macro software. Im just saying you should not use it during game play.

And the logic its ok to use because EA wont fix it is BS. was it OK for preist to rape little boys up until the church said it was bad? NO!!! it was bad from the very start.

Well, ya missed the point again. I'm not saying I get away with it. I'm asking if the penalty should be the same?

to this point yes it is the same offence. A state trooper in the US can and will pull you over for 1 mile an hour over the speed limit if he chooses. Now that some of these bastards are lazy and dopnt want to waste their time is another story.... and before i get flamed i love cops and all who protect my silly @$$.

DOS X. i'm not against your controller. If it fits your playing style better than so be it. What buttons you use to throw a bag or reload I don’t care either. If you use a joy stick and change your buttons from your keyboard to your joystick I don’t care either. What gets me is three unique actions that you set up by the press of one button and not the device that you use for your interface. and that goes for all of these devices in this thread

[W_Parmenter]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Dont get me wrong. I am a network engineer and use macros and scripts on a daily basis that make my life alot easier. im not saying you cant have this software or any macro software. Im just saying you should not use it during game play.

And the logic its ok to use because EA wont fix it is BS. was it OK for preist to rape little boys up until the church said it was bad? NO!!! it was bad from the very start.



to this point yes it is the same offence. A state trooper in the US can and will pull you over for 1 mile an hour over the speed limit if he chooses. Now that some of these bastards are lazy and dopnt want to waste their time is another story.... and before i get flamed i love cops and all who protect my silly @$$.

DOS X. i'm not against your controller. If it fits your playing style better than so be it. What buttons you use to throw a bag or reload I don’t care either. If you use a joy stick and change your buttons from your keyboard to your joystick I don’t care either. What gets me is three unique actions that you set up by the press of one button and not the device that you use for your interface. and that goes for all of these devices in this thread

I think we can all agree that macros in BF2 are wrong, even the nefarious DosX has seen the light and given up his evil ways. The question no one seems to want to answer is whether using that software to bind single keys is cheating. Whether using J2K to enable spotting with a joystick is cheating. And if not, do we ban the software because some people misuse it?

The priest analogy is flawed because raping little boys is inherently bad. Using macros is only cheating because the TOS says it is. The analogy I'd use is gun ownership, do we outlaw guns for everyone because some people use them to break the law?

And in my state the penalty for speeding varies greatly depending on how fast above the speed limit you were driving.

[lostinspace]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

I would like to hear from Talus...

[DosX]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

to this point yes it is the same offence. A state trooper in the US can and will pull you over for 1 mile an hour over the speed limit if he chooses.

Please read my question again. I didn't say that one mph over and 50 mph were NOT illegal... I asked if the penalty for each was the same? I'm fairly sure that anywhere in the world you'll be paying more for going 50 over, then one over.

So my old macro for tossing medic bags was on the same level as AimBots and MapHacks? See, thats how it's being portrayed here. You cheat, PERIOD! Yes, I cheat.. err... *cough* cheated. But was I doing something so aweful that it deserved the same punishment as someone using a full blown hack?

There are a lot of people out there doing exactly what I am ... err... was. Simple macro's to streamline a process. Simple actions that either should have been included in the game, or hard coded to prevent. EA has a habit of overlooking things, only to make the player pay for the mistakes.

But all of that is of no concern to me...
hallelujah

I have seen the light!

[W_Parmenter]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Please read my question again. I didn't say that one mph over and 50 mph were NOT illegal... I asked if the penalty for each was the same? I'm fairly sure that anywhere in the world you'll be paying more for going 50 over, then one over.

So my old macro for tossing medic bags was on the same level as AimBots and MapHacks? See, thats how it's being portrayed here. You cheat, PERIOD! Yes, I cheat.. err... *cough* cheated. But was I doing something so aweful that it deserved the same punishment as someone using a full blown hack?

There are a lot of people out there doing exactly what I am ... err... was. Simple macro's to streamline a process. Simple actions that either should have been included in the game, or hard coded to prevent. EA has a habit of overlooking things, only to make the player pay for the mistakes.

But all of that is of no concern to me...
hallelujah

I have seen the light!

Who would have thought that something as simple as tossing medic bags could wreak such havok in the BF2 world?

[Sn0wbl1nd]

Re: PunkBuster, Key Macros and 1.4

Who would have thought that something as simple as tossing medic bags could wreak such havok in the BF2 world?

comon W_Paremnter u know it goes way beyond that and u dont need software to bind a single key u can do within battlefield, i have binded plenty of diff keys on my keyboard for example x is my chute button cause i couldnt stand it being so far away lol. same with anyone one who uses the binds on the joystick. everyjoystick i have hooked up to bf2 will remap itself within bf2 and i have had no problems.

DosX ur idea bhind ur macro was set up with the highest of intentions but after some deep thought, if u think this through (and u have :) ) the only answer is that its not legit. this process is leading others to b able to play this game on a level that took most of a good bit of practice to achieve.

DooDaH ....and yes i would like to hear from Talus as well he might have a word or two about this