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I think we can all agree that macros in BF2 are wrong, even the nefarious DosX has seen the light and given up his evil ways. The question no one seems to want to answer is whether using that software to bind single keys is cheating. Whether using J2K to enable spotting with a joystick is cheating. And if not, do we ban the software because some people misuse it?
I posed the same question in a previous thread and of course got no answer.
I also asked for a complete definition of macro abuse again still waiting.
My definition would be be multiple events or multiple keystorkes maped to a single keystroke.
Just for the record I have never mapped multiple events or keystrokes to a single key.
But I have remapped single keystrokes to make game play more comfortable for me.
Originally posted by DosX
This worries me... How does PunkBuster know that my Nostromo software running is harmless now, free of any evil macros? How does PunkBuster know if someone is using their G15 with, or without macros? Their software is the same also?
I share your concern DosX I also own and use an N52 for the same reason you do age and a messed up hand and a G15 for the cool LCD.
I hope the community does not throw out the baby with the bath water!!!
I share your concern DosX I also own and use an N52 for the same reason you do age and a messed up hand and a G15 for the cool LCD.
I hope the community does not throw out the baby with the bath water!!!
Apparently Sn0wbl1nd would do just that.
Originally posted by Sn0wbl1nd
comon W_Paremnter u know it goes way beyond that and u dont need software to bind a single key u can do within battlefield, i have binded plenty of diff keys on my keyboard for example x is my chute button cause i couldnt stand it being so far away lol. same with anyone one who uses the binds on the joystick. everyjoystick i have hooked up to bf2 will remap itself within bf2 and i have had no problems.
But I doubt that EA would alienate a large segment of the community by banning most every gaming device on the market. And it wouldn't surprise me if Sn0wbl1nd's joystick was one of those which ran afoul of PB if they did.
The frustrating part is that it would be easy for EA/DICE to keep everyone happy if they just wrote the code right. It would be nice if we could trust people to follow the rules and not use macros; it would be nice if I didn't have to lock my doors and could trust people not to rip me off. But the reality is that we can't, only saints do what is right 100% of the time.
One thing I like about computer games is that I don't have to learn a lot of rules, all I have to do is install the software and learn how to play. It's the computer's job to ensure that I can't break the rules, either intentionally or inadvertantly. If I wanted to deal with rules I'd play board games.
Nobody's perfect and players may find ways to exploit the game in ways that the developers didn't foresee. It may even be too difficult or impractical to close those exploits. In such cases I would consider rules to be an acceptable way to deal with the problems. Ideally those holes should be closed in subsequent patches. But macros are neither new nor IMO is their use particularly difficult to prevent. I won't speculate as to why DICE didn't write the code in such a way as to prevent their use but to not have done so and then deal with the situation with TOS and ROE is simply unprofessionable and unacceptable IMO.
I doubt that EA would alienate a large segment of the community by banning most every gaming device on the market. And it wouldn't surprise me if Sn0wbl1nd's joystick was one of those which ran afoul of PB if they did.
Large Segment! Thats an understatement. I do believe that if you are banned from one PunkBuster supported game, you are banned from them all. If I'm mistaken here, someone please let me know.
Which means that PunkBuster would be banning all users of Nostromo, G15, Razor, Logitech, etc.... from playing:
America's Army, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2, Battlefield Vietnam, Call of Duty, Call of Duty 2, DOOM 3, Enemy Territory, Far Cry, F.E.A.R., Prey, Quake III Arena, Quake 4, Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield, Rainbow Six 4: Lockdown, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Soldier of Fortune II, War Rock.
Thats a fair amount of income to all those software companies.
On a semi-related note: I know there are gamers reading this who have been in competitions, LAN parties, etc.... Are you telling me that there were NO G15's there? NO Nostromo Keypads? NO MX518 Mice?? (Note: Please don't get confused over my question. I'm NOT asking if they were running macros, only if they were using the hardware).
Unless everyone at the competition was using a 101 keyboard and 3 button mouse, then some people were getting that "unfair advantage". Please fill me in as I'm totally unfamiliar with those types of competitions.
no i wouldnt lol its not the keyboard or the joystick that made them cheat it was them lol this is the main problem.
i own a G15 and a G5 mouse (i love them :rock:) but when it came to installing the software that came with them i didnt feel it was needed. windows picked them up just fine excpet for my mouse and the dpi settings i had to install the drivers for that in order to use the dpi settings. but as far as the keyboards and joysticks are concerned, its not the hardware its the user that makes macros happen. any keyboard can be set up with macros not just G15 and N52 or any other gaming boards out there.
Originally posted by W_Parmenter
And it wouldn't surprise me if Sn0wbl1nd's joystick was one of those which ran afoul of PB if they did..
naw man just a ps2 controler hooked up with a PSX to USB controler from radio shack $18. and i have a RAIDER PRO Interact joystick with a hat controler on it but i never hooked it up with bf2, i like my ps2 controler way to much
Large Segment! Thats an understatement. I do believe that if you are banned from one PunkBuster supported game, you are banned from them all. If I'm mistaken here, someone please let me know.
Which means that PunkBuster would be banning all users of Nostromo, G15, Razor, Logitech, etc.... from playing:
America's Army, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2, Battlefield Vietnam, Call of Duty, Call of Duty 2, DOOM 3, Enemy Territory, Far Cry, F.E.A.R., Prey, Quake III Arena, Quake 4, Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield, Rainbow Six 4: Lockdown, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Soldier of Fortune II, War Rock.
Thats a fair amount of income to all those software companies.
On a semi-related note: I know there are gamers reading this who have been in competitions, LAN parties, etc.... Are you telling me that there were NO G15's there? NO Nostromo Keypads? NO MX518 Mice?? (Note: Please don't get confused over my question. I'm NOT asking if they were running macros, only if they were using the hardware).
Unless everyone at the competition was using a 101 keyboard and 3 button mouse, then some people were getting that "unfair advantage". Please fill me in as I'm totally unfamiliar with those types of competitions.
Good point. So what will happen is utilities like AutoHotKey and J2K will be banned, PunkBuster and the games publishers will say they're cracking down on macroers, the hardware manufacturers (who no doubt are in bed with the publishers) won't have any open source competion, and the macroers will merrily continue using their uber Matrix-like maneuvers. Ya gotta love it...not.
Good point. So what will happen is utilities like AutoHotKey and J2K will be banned, PunkBuster and the games publishers will say they're cracking down on macroers, the hardware manufacturers (who no doubt are in bed with the publishers) won't have any open source competion, and the macroers will merrily continue using their uber Matrix-like maneuvers. Ya gotta love it...not.
Funny thing is I bought the G15 with a rebate coupon that came with SF you think EA is in bed with Logitech?
This problem has no simple answer.
I don' t see an easy way to seperate those that play the game fare from those that abuse.
The only thing that will work is server side code to not accept input as fast as the macro can produce.
But I don't see EA/Dice wanting to redo alot of server code.
Why are mice and remapping keys brought up. The issue is using third party software to accomplish a give task, right? Anyone can change the mappings at the control menu for keyboard and mouse. I thought the issue was mapping (with 3rd party software) mulitpile keystrokes to one key to exploit the game engine. I might be getting confused. I'm getting old.
Why are mice and remapping keys brought up. The issue is using third party software to accomplish a give task, right? Anyone can change the mappings at the control menu for keyboard and mouse. I thought the issue was mapping (with 3rd party software) mulitpile keystrokes to one key to exploit the game engine. I might be getting confused. I'm getting old.
That would be my definition mulitpile keystorkes to one key.
But since PB will detect the G15 software or the N52 software or even the Logitech G5 software setpoint. That would render these devices inoperable.
There are many ppl that use these devices farely.
But I am sorry to say just as many or more that frankly cheat i.e. mapping multiple keystores to one key.
As I have stated my concern is allowing ppl that play fare to continue while nailing the cheaters.
We need a scaple and PB is a sledge hammer.
In the end the only real solution is server side but that is the last thing EA /Dice wants to do.
Why are mice and remapping keys brought up. The issue is using third party software to accomplish a give task, right? Anyone can change the mappings at the control menu for keyboard and mouse. I thought the issue was mapping (with 3rd party software) mulitpile keystrokes to one key to exploit the game engine. I might be getting confused. I'm getting old.
I'll give you a quick and simple example: try to click your left mouse button 15 times a second. Can you do it? Consistently over 5 seconds? If so, congratulations. However, I strongly doubt it.
By being able to edit the config files in order to use the SCROLLWHEEL to simulate left mouse button clicks for directing TV missiles, you're effectively doing the physically impossible... and that's seriously unfair to people who choose to play the game properly.
I thought they coded TV missiles so that the more clicks the less the directional changes? Something like 5 clicks. After that the clicks don't affect the direction very much at all.
I thought they coded TV missiles so that the more clicks the less the directional changes? Something like 5 clicks. After that the clicks don't affect the direction very much at all.
I'll give you a quick and simple example: try to click your left mouse button 15 times a second. Can you do it? Consistently over 5 seconds? If so, congratulations. However, I strongly doubt it.
By being able to edit the config files in order to use the SCROLLWHEEL to simulate left mouse button clicks for directing TV missiles, you're effectively doing the physically impossible... and that's seriously unfair to people who choose to play the game properly.
I agree with you Soli that is cheating.
The best solution to this is what was done in the MMORG"S the servers will not accept input faster than what the developers deemed humanly possible.
But here's the rub with EA/Dice's trak record on making good patches what do you think the odds are on them getting that right?
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